Forums/Armchair-GM

Eichel overpay or underpay poll

Created by: Cdn_bacon
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 31, 2021
Published: Aug. 31, 2021
Team: 2021-22 Boston Bruins
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Hutton, Ben1$750,000
Rask, Tuukka1$1,150,000
Trades
1.
BOS
  1. Eichel, Jack
BUF
  1. DeBrusk, Jake
  2. Vaakanainen, Urho
  3. Grzelcyk, Matt
  4. Studnicka, Jack
  5. 2022 1st round pick (BOS)
  6. 2023 1st round pick (BOS)
  7. 2024 1st round pick (BOS)
  8. 2022 2nd round pick (BOS)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
CGY
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
2023
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
2024
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
BOS
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,448,174$1,956,507$0$51,826

Roster

Left WingCenterRight Wing
BOS
Marchand, Brad
$6,125,000
LW
NMC
UFA - 4
BOS
Bergeron, Patrice
$6,875,000
C
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
BOS
Pastrnak, David
$6,666,667
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
BOS
Hall, Taylor
$6,000,000
LW
NMC
UFA - 4
BUF
Eichel, Jack
$10,000,000
C
UFA - 5
BOS
Coyle, Charlie
$5,250,000
C, RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 5
BOS
Foligno, Nick
$3,800,000
LW, C, RW
NMC
UFA - 2
BOS
Haula, Erik
$2,375,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
BOS
Smith, Craig
$3,100,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
BOS
Frederic, Trent
$1,050,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
BOS
Nosek, Tomas
$1,750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
BOS
Wagner, Chris
$1,350,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
BOS
Forbort, Derek
$3,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
BOS
McAvoy, Charlie
$4,900,000
RD
UFA - 1
BOS
Ullmark, Linus
$5,000,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
BOS
Reilly, Mike
$3,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
BOS
Carlo, Brandon
$4,100,000
RD
UFA - 6
Rask, Tuukka
$1,150,000
G
UFA
BOS
Zboril, Jakub
$725,000
LD/RD
RFA - 1
BOS
Clifton, Connor
$1,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Hutton, Ben
$750,000
LD
UFA - 1
BOS
Moore, John
$2,750,000
LD
UFA - 2
BOS
Lazar, Curtis
$800,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
BOS
Kuhlman, Karson
$725,000
RW, C
RFA - 1

Special Teams

Power Play 1
Pastrnak, D.
Bergeron, P.
Marchand, B.
McAvoy, C.
Eichel, J.
Power Play 2
Smith, C.
Coyle, C.
Foligno, N.
Clifton, C.
Hall, T.
Penalty Kill 1
Bergeron, P.
Wagner, C.
Reilly, M.
Carlo, B.
Penalty Kill 2
Nosek, T.
Frederic, T.
Forbort, D.
Clifton, C.

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Eichel trade
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Poll Options


Sep. 1 at 5:08 p.m.
#26
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Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,204
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Quoting: NYR1983
While in real life 4 quarters make a dollar and is equivalent, we all agree that it’s not the same in sports. All these pieces likely will never amount to a JE. However, the value here is great, there’s like 6-8 quarters worth to the JE dollar bill. The problem I see is a bunch of these guys aren’t going to fit BUF today or down the road. Those guys need to be flipped again which is dumb. But, all those picks could become players that are slightly under JE quality. We know how late Pasta, Kuch, Point, etc went and they very well could find some gems making this trade look terrible for BOS.


So - the expected value of a 24th overall pick exists. Even with the players you mentioned though, you need like 10+ of them to get a player of Jack Eichels quality. 3-4 is nothing. Like grab 5 random numbers between 20 and 30, check who were drafted in those spots 2012-16 or something. I'm sure you'll find that those 6-8 quarters are in fact nickels if you look closely.
Sep. 1 at 5:23 p.m.
#27
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Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,204
Likes: 944
Quoting: gretzkyghosts
It is such a pleasure to hear words of wisdom on this site.
You mention O'Reilly to the Blues.
When the trade was made, nearly every pundit thought it was a good deal for both teams.

On January first after the trade the Blues were so excited with the trade, they were discussing breaking up the team at the TDL.
Six months later they are holding the cup.

But you also mentioned the Thornton trade.
In past 15 years or so, I would say Boston has lost three trades by wide margins.
Of course the Thornton deal, but what do they have to show for Wheeler and Seguin?
About the same as the Sabres have from losing Kane, O'Reilly and Lehner.
Three players that the Sabres gave up multiple picks and former first round picks to obtain.
Now have Thompson to show for all of those trades.

I could even add Kessel to the Boston ledger.
Initially it looked as Boston won the trade by a wide margin getting Seguin and Hamilton, but where are they now?
While Kessel got to hoist two cups.

So for Buffalo the past 10 years they have lost both ends of the trades.
When they got the best player in the deal and when they traded that player away.

Boston on the other hand, trades away great players and still manages to be in cup contention every year.
Buffalo is the laughing stock of the league now, it all started when Pegula took over the team.

I imagine when the dust settles the Sabres will have bucket of pucks to show for trading Reinhart, Ristolainen and Eichel.
The same one Boston has for trading away, Thornton, Wheeler and Kessel.

The difference is Buffalo has practice puck, while Boston pucks are from the Stanley Cup playoffs.


Yeah. I do think there are a lot of difficult concepts in here to grapple with as well. On O'Reilly for example, I just disagreed with popular opinion even then. Stl was shafted by goaltending for a while when they were playing pretty well and I created mocks trading Mittelstadt for Tarasenko - how crazy would that have been. But no, instead the typical defensive fan goes "my prospect will become great, no player I could trade for is as good" until the trade actually happens and then they flip.

And this brings me to my next point, cause you lay it out really well. The Bruins have made TERRIBLE decisions, potentially more than any winning franchise this millenium (although Chicago comes to mind). But they've been lucky. And I'm the first fan to recognize that. The front office of the team I prefer makes terrible decisions. Getting Dougie and Seguin? No thanks, I'll flip that for more senseless mid-round picks, think I won big in Brandon Carlo, and in reality let the same core players we got lucky with picking late in the first, in the second and in the 3rd round carry the team.

And one has to remember - even if there are Brad Marchands, or more recently Brayden Points or whatever past the first round, or players like Pasta late in the second;
NOBODY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE. IF THEY DID THEY WOULDNT GO IN THE 2-3RD ROUNDS.
Like this is not a consistent strategy. If you over time accumulate, or trade aging players or for bad contracts, you can gather enough to make it likely at least some turn into NHLers. Arizona might have something to show for their like 8 3rd rounders next year, but Buffalo probably won't for giving up Taylor Hall.

BUT, I was really appreciated with what they got for Ristolainen. Good on them.
gretzkyghosts liked this.
Sep. 1 at 5:42 p.m.
#28
Joined: Apr. 2018
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 2,107
Quoting: MelonVK
Yeah. I do think there are a lot of difficult concepts in here to grapple with as well. On O'Reilly for example, I just disagreed with popular opinion even then. Stl was shafted by goaltending for a while when they were playing pretty well and I created mocks trading Mittelstadt for Tarasenko - how crazy would that have been. But no, instead the typical defensive fan goes "my prospect will become great, no player I could trade for is as good" until the trade actually happens and then they flip.

And this brings me to my next point, cause you lay it out really well. The Bruins have made TERRIBLE decisions, potentially more than any winning franchise this millenium (although Chicago comes to mind). But they've been lucky. And I'm the first fan to recognize that. The front office of the team I prefer makes terrible decisions. Getting Dougie and Seguin? No thanks, I'll flip that for more senseless mid-round picks, think I won big in Brandon Carlo, and in reality let the same core players we got lucky with picking late in the first, in the second and in the 3rd round carry the team.

And one has to remember - even if there are Brad Marchands, or more recently Brayden Points or whatever past the first round, or players like Pasta late in the second;
NOBODY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE. IF THEY DID THEY WOULDNT GO IN THE 2-3RD ROUNDS.
Like this is not a consistent strategy. If you over time accumulate, or trade aging players or for bad contracts, you can gather enough to make it likely at least some turn into NHLers. Arizona might have something to show for their like 8 3rd rounders next year, but Buffalo probably won't for giving up Taylor Hall.

BUT, I was really appreciated with what they got for Ristolainen. Good on them.
We can moan about poor drafts even more my friend.
Tim Murray the GM I love to hate the most.
He past on Draisaitl and took Reinhart, and past on Sergachev and took Nylander.
At least Reinhart appears to have developed finally, but Nylander is good AHL player.
Then Sweeny passing on Barzal, not once, not twice, but three times to pick DeBrusk, Senyshyn and Zboril.

I think we are pretty much in agreement on this trade, it is an over payment, DeBrusk will bounce back but in the end Buffalo will have more practice pucks, while Boston will be in the playoffs for the next 5 years.

Give me your feed back.
I do not like Hall and Eichel on the same line.
I think Cassidy should keep he Bergeron line together
Marchand Bergeron Pasternak
Haula Eichel Smith
Hall Coyle Foligno
Hall and Eichel do not need each other to play well they make their line mates play better.
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Sep. 1 at 6:07 p.m.
#29
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 1,121
Quoting: MelonVK
So - the expected value of a 24th overall pick exists. Even with the players you mentioned though, you need like 10+ of them to get a player of Jack Eichels quality. 3-4 is nothing. Like grab 5 random numbers between 20 and 30, check who were drafted in those spots 2012-16 or something. I'm sure you'll find that those 6-8 quarters are in fact nickels if you look closely.


So you’re telling me Jack Eichel is worth more than Kuch, Point and Pasta combined?

While I can give credit to you not over valuing your players I do question your valuing of Jack Eichel. He’s far from McJesus value. Like not top 20 in the league.
Sep. 1 at 7:09 p.m.
#30
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Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,204
Likes: 944
Quoting: gretzkyghosts
We can moan about poor drafts even more my friend.
Tim Murray the GM I love to hate the most.
He past on Draisaitl and took Reinhart, and past on Sergachev and took Nylander.
At least Reinhart appears to have developed finally, but Nylander is good AHL player.
Then Sweeny passing on Barzal, not once, not twice, but three times to pick DeBrusk, Senyshyn and Zboril.

I think we are pretty much in agreement on this trade, it is an over payment, DeBrusk will bounce back but in the end Buffalo will have more practice pucks, while Boston will be in the playoffs for the next 5 years.

Give me your feed back.
I do not like Hall and Eichel on the same line.
I think Cassidy should keep he Bergeron line together
Marchand Bergeron Pasternak
Haula Eichel Smith
Hall Coyle Foligno
Hall and Eichel do not need each other to play well they make their line mates play better.


Yeah GM's actively trying to outbrain themselves is probably the most frustrating aspect to watch as a fan. Like you have 3 picks. You can pick the guy and get two guys you sneakily like.

I cautiously agree in the sense that you can get better deals - like half of that package should easily land you a Hertl who'd be amazing on this Bruins team. But again, if you push me on it, especially with Grzlcyk replaced by Carlo or so, I'd pull the trigger. But yeah, Grzlcyk and DeBrusk aren't just any throw-ins. I was gonna say DeBrusk probably wasn't that bad of a pick in that spot even in hindsight - Barzal is good but Connor that a lot of people would've liked there is overrated imo, but then I realized what a crazy draft that was.

Honestly I'd specialize them more. Eichel and Pasta for the O-zone starts /and Eichel carrying pucks if necessary) and Hall with the defensive duo to have one of the best puck winners along with two of the best guys going the other way. My biggest issue though isnt where anyone of them plays really though, its seeing Haula anywhere in that lineup. He'll cause me so much frustration this season.
gretzkyghosts liked this.
Sep. 1 at 7:19 p.m.
#31
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Joined: Jul. 2017
Posts: 3,204
Likes: 944
Quoting: NYR1983
So you’re telling me Jack Eichel is worth more than Kuch, Point and Pasta combined?

While I can give credit to you not over valuing your players I do question your valuing of Jack Eichel. He’s far from McJesus value. Like not top 20 in the league.


My point is that you're still incredibly unlikely to get either of them. You're picking 3 guys who went between like 200 others. Pasta was picked 25th in that draft - let's see who went in that spot the drafts before and after:

2015 - Jack Roslovic (alright, good start)
2016 - Riley Tufte (literally who)
2017 - Ryan Poehling (what does he make, 750k?)

2013 - Michael McCarron (oh)
2012 - Jordan Schmaltz (wait, he is a guy, isn't he?)
2011 - Stuart Percy (not convinced he is real)

Wana see 58th and 79th for Kucherov and Point? It's not gonna look pretty, I'm pretty sure.

My point was never that these guys don't provide insane value. My point is that you have an incredibly low chance at getting that value.
Sep. 1 at 8:01 p.m.
#32
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 1,121
Quoting: MelonVK
My point is that you're still incredibly unlikely to get either of them. You're picking 3 guys who went between like 200 others. Pasta was picked 25th in that draft - let's see who went in that spot the drafts before and after:

2015 - Jack Roslovic (alright, good start)
2016 - Riley Tufte (literally who)
2017 - Ryan Poehling (what does he make, 750k?)

2013 - Michael McCarron (oh)
2012 - Jordan Schmaltz (wait, he is a guy, isn't he?)
2011 - Stuart Percy (not convinced he is real)

Wana see 58th and 79th for Kucherov and Point? It's not gonna look pretty, I'm pretty sure.

My point was never that these guys don't provide insane value. My point is that you have an incredibly low chance at getting that value.


I’m not saying they are guaranteed studs, but for a team that’s rebuilding and isn’t getting better offers or even close to this offer..no team should ever let go of a JE, issue here is BUF really can’t keep him justifiably. It’s a messed up situation is all.
Sep. 2 at 1:12 a.m.
#33
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Quoting: NYR1983
I’m not saying they are guaranteed studs, but for a team that’s rebuilding and isn’t getting better offers or even close to this offer..no team should ever let go of a JE, issue here is BUF really can’t keep him justifiably. It’s a messed up situation is all.


Yeah but the discussion is if the trade is fair in its purest sense?

My point was any team giving up a bunch of late firsts for Eichel is going to come winning out of that equation unless the other team has an insane stroke of luck, and you can't really assume that. I'm saying *even* if this is the price, someone should already have paid up for Eichel. My biggest issue here is still Grzlcyk who you probably won't replace easily, but this *type* of package should still be fine.
Sep. 2 at 9:28 a.m.
#34
Banned
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Posts: 226
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Quoting: MelonVK
So you didn't read my first part of the sentenece? regardless what you think the market value is, you're a better team in the present and future after trading for him


"You"? Im not a bruins fan lol

And no, they bruins are ****ed if they make this trade lol, this is not a good trade for the bruins, and they would reject immediately
Sep. 2 at 10:14 a.m.
#35
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Posts: 3,204
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Quoting: LogicOnly
"You"? Im not a bruins fan lol

And no, they bruins are ****ed if they make this trade lol, this is not a good trade for the bruins, and they would reject immediately


You're an in "you're better off" making this trade. I disagree with your sentiment. Also, I am a Bruins fan.
Sep. 2 at 12:28 p.m.
#36
Banned
Joined: Jul. 2021
Posts: 226
Likes: 25
Quoting: MelonVK
You're an in "you're better off" making this trade. I disagree with your sentiment. Also, I am a Bruins fan.


What you said just now made no sense

bruins reject 1000 times
 
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