Only thing that you've done right is get a fourth back for Josh Brown.


I don't even know where to begin on anything else

Anaheim accepts

Oh boy

The buffalo trade is obviously very complicated, because i think it mostly relies on what buffalo could flip tkachuk for.

Also, the cap floor is a thing.

The trade that really jumps out is that arizona one. Let’s get a couple things straight here.
1. Arizona sucks, and they’re trying to suck. There’s a reason they have probably the worst goaltending tandem in the league (or at very least the cheapest).
2. Matt Murray sucks, and his contract REALLY sucks.
3. Mete was a waiver guy not too long ago.
4. That pick is almost a lock to be a top five pick.


I think arizona would be expecting to GET a first round pick to take those two players, they’re definitely not giving up one. That’s absolutely absurd.

Damn, thanks for saving me the work

That is one "weird" proposal for Eichel.

And holy cow the overpayment for Manson. Brannstrom is a pretty good prospect and Ostapchuk seems like a very good pick too

Not adding a 1st and two 2nds + for Eichel.

Also not trading a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Manson.

Disagree with #2. He proved his ability in the past. Sure he has been injury prone the last few years which impacted his overall performance but he's only 2 years and 55 GP removed from a 0.919 SV% in a really good season in 2018-19 (50 GP). Don't look at his stats last season thinking it reveals anything. That Sens team defense at the start of the year was NOT NHL LEVEL, and it's not hyperbole. It destroyed his numbers for the year, same for Hogberg. As a goalie myself, I look at these things closely and analyzed it deeply

- 0.909 SV% at home, 0.875 SV% on the road
- 0.880 SV% before injury, 0.954 SV% after injury

Same story for every one of the 5 goalies that played for Ottawa last season, their numbers were ALL MUCH BETTER at home vs road (abused by matchups early in the season), and all their numbers IMPROVED drastically as the season went on (after March 15th mainly). Keep in mind it's a young rebuilding team with very poor veteran talent. GM also made several (puzzling) personnel moves that made the team worse. Coach made poor decisions as well and there was no preseason games (didn't play for 10+ months, 50% roster turnover again). They gradually fixed their mistakes. For example, it took 10 games to finally play Artem Zub, who was easily the Sens 2nd best D-man last season

Let me know if you need more facts/explanations

His contrat was overpayment right away though. And agreed with all the other points, that proposal makes no sense

He’s been sub .900 for the past two seasons. He stinks.

Is it your argument vs the whole argument I have presented? lol that looks lopsided

My first year in college (not american college), I started playing and won every goalie award, I had like a 0.960 SV%. My 2nd year, the team changed drastically as some very good players left and my save percentage was barely 0.850 SV%

SV% isn't clos to tell the whole story. That's why I have started to look at context in my analysis. But like I said, it goes much further than that

With a sample size like that, it does. The difference between good NHL teams and bad NHL teams isn’t that huge. The difference between good college teams and bad college teams is drastic. Even in division. You’re right that save percentage doesn’t tell the whole story…particularly when it comes to playing for bad teams. Bad teams give up a lot of shots. Linus Ullmark played for a pretty garbage team, and he mustered a .917. Elvis in columbus had a .918. Bernier had a .914 in Detroit. Greiss had a .912 in Detroit. Back to back seasons in prime years of a sub .900 is not a goalie that anyone wants.

- I agree that the difference between good NHL teams and bad NHL teams isn’t that huge

- a 55 GP sample size doesn't define a career (if it's the sample size you were talking about). At 27 y/o, he already has had a lot more success than most can only dream of. Sure, he was on a good team but this also wasn't "luck", he was pretty damn good in these runs and stole the job from a possible HOF goalie twice. In 2017, he literally saved the Pens butt. Sens were going to the finals if Murray wasn't there to come in relief to Fleury. I have seen his ability, it's there and talent doesn't disappear. Aging can make you lose some talent but he's still young. Injuries is also something that can affect you so it has clearly been a factor but if he is not physically diminished, there's no reason why he couldn't go back to his previous level

- I'm not saying that teams will lineup to acquire him now until he rebounds but like I told you, his stats last season have to be taken with a big grain of salt. Like I have also said, I already digged deep on this. I can just copy/paste. You can choose to ignore these facts (because frankly, it's pretty trendy these days) but this is pretty telling. The SV% progression for all the Sens goalie during the season and the HUGE difference between home vs road is not a coincidence. It would be pretty foolish to think so.


The difference is his last 5 games were in April when the Sens had figured out how to defend at a NHL level. Before that (so before his injury), any good/decent game he had was at home or vs the Habs (Leafs too). The Sens were literally abused by any other team on the road.


Before March 13th :

Sens goalies Overall : 0.874 SV%
Sens goalies Home : 0.904 SV%
Sens goalies Road : 0.855 SV%

After March 13th :

Sens goalies Overall : 0.919 SV%
Sens goalies Home : 0.924 SV%
Sens goalies Road : 0.912 SV%


One could say "yeah but Murray and Hogberg". Daccord also played games before and after

Before March 13th :

Murray : 0.880 SV%
Hogberg : 0.859 SV%
Daccord : 0.891 SV%

After March 13th :

Murray : 0.954 SV%
Hogberg : 0.912 SV%
Daccord : 0.906 SV%

Anton Forsberg and Filip Gustavsson benefited from NOT playing before that date.

Goalies didn't suddenly turned on a switch from "we absolutely suck" to "guys, let's be among the best". You don't go from 0.874 to 0.919 SV% suddenly for no reason, hockey really is a TEAM GAME, and I'll never be able to stress enough about this. So not only the eye test revealed it was a "team defense" problem, but the stats also support it.

I have no idea why people are still looking at goaltending or even forwards when the team weakness is clearly DEFENSE. However, guys like Zub and Mete really helped. Brannstrom too to a lesser extent. He still has things to figure out but his breakouts are good in general.

I’ll be honest with you man, I’m just not going to read something that long if it’s trying to defend the preposterous stance that Matt Murray is anything but bad.

You don't have to read, looking at the facts/stats is pretty quick though

But it's mostly a bad habit from another forum where I know a lot of people read my posts even if the other person I'm discussing with doesn't/stops. Problem is it doesn't work like that on CF, threads aren't bumped! Or people don't search that way

Anyway, my whole point was that you absolutely need to take Murray's stats last season with a big grain of salt. I watched every game and eye test/stats/advanced stats all tell me the same thing. I have stated a big part of the evidence, didn't take long as I just copied/pasted

Facts are NOT preposterous, au contraire... people thinking like this is how we got ourselves into an eternal society debate about masks/vaccines/etc. Facts are pretty easy to gather. The current "hate" for anything objective is very weird to me, considering how my brain functions.

What about the season before that?

Well, I haven't digged as much since he was not in Ottawa yet

Looks like a down year with a few injuries, he only played 38 games. I'm not sure about injuries but he has been very injury-prone in his career so it's almost an automatic.

There was also the "emergence" of Tristan Jarry (I personally never been high on him)

Murray SV% wasn't great but 0.899 is not dramatic, 10 more saves in these 38 GP and we're already talking about 0.908

He still had a 20-11-5 record which is the most important stat


I have gotten much better over the years to assess hockey players, which allowed me to make good amounts of money by flipping hockey cards. I'm not wrong very often on goalies, even if everybody else is praising a guy. Best exemple of this is Andrew Hammond, people were getting crazy with his 2014-15 season (20-1-2, 0.941 SV%) but I was still calling him a flash in the pan

It's ok if you don't think he can be good, it's what most people think looking at his recent numbers but personally I think, as long as he's healthy (far from guaranteed though) and he has a solid structure in front him (another thing that isn't guaranteed), he's going to be fine. In this scenario, he had 0.954 SV% last 5 games after coming back from injury at the end of last season, 0.925 SV% in 2 pre-season games now

Honest question: are you unable to criticize players on your favorite team?

Well if you were ready my posts, you'd already have that answer

I just said that in the post you quoted :

"Andrew Hammond, people were getting crazy with his 2014-15 season (20-1-2, 0.941 SV%) but I was still calling him a flash in the pan"

It's mostly on another forum with more interactions but I criticize Melnyk and Dorion A LOT, some find me very annoying with this. I also have criticized Tierney since 2019 and several players who were in Ottawa last year but thankfully most of them are gone now (except Josh Brown). Sanford is going to be a player that I will criticize a lot too. Oh and Del Zotto as well, not going to be pretty. I used to criticize DJ Smith a lot too but I have warmed up to him and now giving him more leeway

Oh, cool. A goalie from half a decade ago. I just can’t really understand anyone making a case for Matt Murray.

Well the guy won 2 cups before the end of his rookie season and was a big piece in these 2 runs, overtaking an up and down possible future HOF goalie. He was the best goalie in the AHL when he was there (at a very young age) and had some pretty good NHL seasons too. All of this before he was 25 y/o, which is an age several goalies start establishing themselves in the NHL.

Personally I care more ability than stats, and I have seen the ability from Matt Murray, even last year when his numbers were bad. He had some pretty good games at home or in April after coming back from injury. There's ~10 road games early in the season where he got abused with basically an AHL defense in front of him, which destroyed his numbers for the season (since it was a shortened season). Even Hasek in his prime would have posted below 0.900 SV% in these games. Anyway, all of this has been explained and DEMONSTRATED but you chose to ignore. You're pretty much acting like these anti-vaxx/etc



This right here shows exactly how unreasonable/dishonest you are. I have also named 7 ACTUAL Sens players/members (and also said several players from last year) but you have decided to focus on the only one from the past... LOL!

It's pretty hard to discuss anything when people are doing stuff like this. And this is exactly why the whole planet has a big societal/political debate right now.