Forums/Armchair-GM

ing koskinen

Created by: Connormcdanish
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 28, 2021
Published: Oct. 28, 2021
Team: 2021-22 Edmonton Oilers
Team Explanation
just needs to leave
Trades
1.
EDM
  1. Gibson, John
ANA
  1. Koskinen, Mikko ($1,500,000 retained)
  2. Lavoie, Raphael
  3. Lagesson, William
  4. Rodrigue, Olivier
  5. 2022 1st round pick (EDM)
  6. 2023 2nd round pick (EDM)
Buyouts
  • James Neal: $1,916,667
  • Andrej Sekera: $1,500,000
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Mikko Koskinen: $1,500,000 (33.33%)
  • Milan Lucic: $750,000 (13%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
2023
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
2024
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
EDM
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
24$81,500,000$83,537,801$669,339$850,000-$2,037,801
Left WingCenterRight Wing
EDM
Hyman, Zach
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NMC
UFA - 7
EDM
McDavid, Connor
$12,500,000
C
UFA - 5
EDM
Puljujärvi, Jesse
$1,175,000
RW
RFA - 1
EDM
Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan
$5,125,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 8
EDM
Draisaitl, Leon
$8,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
EDM
Yamamoto, Kailer
$1,175,000
RW, C
RFA - 1
EDM
Foegele, Warren
$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
EDM
Ryan, Derek
$1,250,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
EDM
Kassian, Zack
$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 3
EDM
Shore, Devin
$850,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 2
EDM
Turris, Kyle
$1,650,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
EDM
Perlini, Brendan
$750,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
EDM
Benson, Tyler
$750,000
LW
RFA - 1
EDM
Sceviour, Colton
$750,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
EDM
Nurse, Darnell
$5,600,000
LD
UFA - 1
EDM
Bouchard, Evan
$863,333
RD
RFA - 2
ANA
Gibson, John
$6,400,000
G
NTC
UFA - 6
EDM
Keith, Duncan
$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 2
EDM
Ceci, Cody
$3,250,000
RD
UFA - 4
EDM
Smith, Mike
$2,200,000
G
UFA - 2
EDM
Koekkoek, Slater
$925,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
EDM
Barrie, Tyson
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
EDM
Skinner, Stuart
$750,000
G
RFA - 2
EDM
Russell, Kris
$1,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
EDM
Klefbom, Oscar
$4,167,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
EDM
Archibald, Josh
$1,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
EDM
Stalock, Alex
$785,000
G
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Oct. 28, 2021 at 1:26 a.m.
#1
AntreDiAnaheim
Joined: Dec. 2019
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 476
No
Oct. 28, 2021 at 2:30 a.m.
#2
Joined: Jun. 2019
Posts: 584
Likes: 243
Why would you want Gibson? Bad contract and overrated.
CD282 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 6:55 a.m.
#3
Joined: Jun. 2020
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 2,930
Kosk is fine had a bit of a sketchy game last night but so did smith the game he got hurt in. It happens. The one aspect to kosk I do wish would change is stop trying to be smith and playing loose pucks so much. I don’t really hold it against goalies for not being good at that since it’s not really a fundamental aspect to the position but he keeps trying and far far too often does it backfire and get redirected towards the net leaving him way out of position. He’s a back up goalie who got out played by a starter can’t win them all. Let’s not hit panic button. I actually think it was very poor decision to play him last night in the first place since we need to get some looks at skinner and when exactly is a better time to do so then at home with last change against an eastern team while having a 5-0 record. Since next game is against division opponent going to be playing the more experienced guy and smith might be back just think we wasted the call up on skinner and prevented him from even playing down in Bakersfield accomplished absolutely nothing productive in that aspect.
CD282 and MisstheWhalers liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 8:59 a.m.
#4
Joined: Oct. 2021
Posts: 488
Likes: 323
Honestly that’s probably about right for the value of Gibson locked in for that price and term. People forget how good Gibson has been for Anaheim
Rooney liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 9:08 a.m.
#5
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: QualityTrades1
Honestly that’s probably about right for the value of Gibson locked in for that price and term. People forget how good Gibson has been for Anaheim


Have you been under a rock? He hasn't been good for any considerable stretch since 2018.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 9:12 a.m.
#6
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Guy is sporting a .926 save percentage and a 3-1-0 record and you want to throw him out like a bunch of trash??

ing fairweather fan.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 9:42 a.m.
#7
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: CD282
Have you been under a rock? He hasn't been good for any considerable stretch since 2018.


And look at the team that has been playing in front of him during that time...
MisstheWhalers and Devil1122 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 9:49 a.m.
#8
Silentfox1
Joined: Dec. 2018
Posts: 446
Likes: 134
Better off getting a rental @ TDL and trying to fix it in 22 offseason.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:01 a.m.
#9
MisstheWhalers
Joined: Jan. 2019
Posts: 16,001
Likes: 7,303
Quoting: Rooney
And look at the team that has been playing in front of him during that time...


Gibson's looked pretty solid in the games against the Jets so far aside from Ehlers snipe!
Rooney, OldNYIfan and Devil1122 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:04 a.m.
#10
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Gibson's looked pretty solid in the games against the Jets so far aside from Ehlers snipe!


He 100% has! Gibson is still a top tier goalie in my opinion. If he was on a contender, no doubt he'd put up much better numbers as well.
MisstheWhalers and OldNYIfan liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:05 a.m.
#11
Joined: Jun. 2020
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 2,930
Quoting: Rooney
And look at the team that has been playing in front of him during that time...


Why is that an acceptable excuse for Gibson who makes almost 2 million more than Kosk but nobody is willing to give kosk any benefit of the doubt after having one understandably bad year. I don’t see a lot of comments praising the oilers defenders or defensive systems….
CD282 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:20 a.m.
#12
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: Timmah007
Why is that an acceptable excuse for Gibson who makes almost 2 million more than Kosk but nobody is willing to give kosk any benefit of the doubt after having one understandably bad year. I don’t see a lot of comments praising the oilers defenders or defensive systems….


My post had nothing to do with Koskinen. He's put up good number this year albeit in a small sample size. I find it hard to believe anyone would think than Koskinen is a better goaltender than Gibson but that doesn't mean Koskinen is a bad goaltender per say. I'm sure last year he would have put up better numbers in front of a better defence as well.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:31 a.m.
#13
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
And look at the team that has been playing in front of him during that time...


I've done the math, the Ducks haven't got worse defensively in the past 2 years, they've actually allowed slightly fewer shots against than 2018-19 season. Their main issue has been worse goaltending and less offense.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:38 a.m.
#14
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
And look at the team that has been playing in front of him during that time...


Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Gibson's looked pretty solid in the games against the Jets so far aside from Ehlers snipe!


Quoting: Timmah007
Why is that an acceptable excuse for Gibson who makes almost 2 million more than Kosk but nobody is willing to give kosk any benefit of the doubt after having one understandably bad year. I don’t see a lot of comments praising the oilers defenders or defensive systems….

Here's a comp between Gibson and Koskinen:

Past 2 years shots against/60
Koskinen: 32.70
Gibson: 31.08

Past 2 years 5v5 shots against/60
Koskinen: 32.34
Gibson: 31.07

Past 2 years 5v5 HD shots against/60
Gibson: 8.78
Koskinen: 8.50

So Koskinen faced more shots overall, more 5v5 shots and nearly as many 5v5 HD shots. Koskinen wasn't benefitting from a better defense, that's for sure. With that out of the way, lets look at how they performed:

Past 2 years save percentage
Koskinen: .910
Gibson: .904

Past 2 years 5v5 save percentage
Gibson: .916
Koskinen: .915

Past 2 years 5v5 HD save percentage
Koskinen: .833
Gibson: .814

Gibson has worse results than Koskinen despite a slightly lighter workload.
Rooney liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 10:47 a.m.
#15
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: CD282
Here's a comp between Gibson and Koskinen:

Past 2 years shots against/60
Koskinen: 32.70
Gibson: 31.08

Past 2 years 5v5 shots against/60
Koskinen: 32.34
Gibson: 31.07

Past 2 years 5v5 HD shots against/60
Gibson: 8.78
Koskinen: 8.50

So Koskinen faced more shots overall, more 5v5 shots and nearly as many 5v5 HD shots. Koskinen wasn't benefitting from a better defense, that's for sure. With that out of the way, lets look at how they performed:

Past 2 years save percentage
Koskinen: .910
Gibson: .904

Past 2 years 5v5 save percentage
Gibson: .916
Koskinen: .915

Past 2 years 5v5 HD save percentage
Koskinen: .833
Gibson: .814

Gibson has worse results than Koskinen despite a slightly lighter workload.


I appreciate the research and numbers you provided. I'd also like to state I have nothing against Koskinen whatsoever. I just find it hard to believe that people would choose Koskinen to be their starting goalie over Gibson. If you put them in identical situations, same team, same workload, you don't think Gibson would out perform Koskinen?
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:11 a.m.
#16
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
I just find it hard to believe that people would choose Koskinen to be their starting goalie over Gibson.

Koskinen isn't Edmonton's starter.

Quoting: Rooney
If you put them in identical situations, same team, same workload, you don't think Gibson would out perform Koskinen?

No, I don't. There's no evidence to suggest he would.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:21 a.m.
#17
Joined: Jun. 2020
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 2,930
Quoting: Rooney
I appreciate the research and numbers you provided. I'd also like to state I have nothing against Koskinen whatsoever. I just find it hard to believe that people would choose Koskinen to be their starting goalie over Gibson. If you put them in identical situations, same team, same workload, you don't think Gibson would out perform Koskinen?


Probably outperform Kosk but I question if it’s by enough to justify the quality of assets it would take to get Gibson. Also is it worth adding 1.9 million to the cap with a ton of term. Adding in having both Gibson and smith signed threw next year also means we will certainly loose skinner to waivers or be forced to trade. In most cases successful teams develop their own goalies which is why I think it’s very important that any goaltending decision made in the next year for Edmonton revolves around developing and progressing the guys in the system rather than from the outside.
Rooney liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:23 a.m.
#18
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: CD282
Koskinen isn't Edmonton's starter.


No, I don't. There's no evidence to suggest he would.


His first 5 years in the league aren't evidence??? You're basing your claim off this worst 2. Definitely gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, I think you'd be in the minority here.
Devil1122 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:25 a.m.
#19
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: Timmah007
Probably outperform Kosk but I question if it’s by enough to justify the quality of assets it would take to get Gibson. Also is it worth adding 1.9 million to the cap with a ton of term. Adding in having both Gibson and smith signed threw next year also means we will certainly loose skinner to waivers or be forced to trade. In most cases successful teams develop their own goalies which is why I think it’s very important that any goaltending decision made in the next year for Edmonton revolves around developing and progressing the guys in the system rather than from the outside.


I can definitely get on board with that reasoning! I would agree that developing your own is a smarter choice as well. I also wasn't looking at my claims from the POV of Edmonton acquiring him, was more so just comparing both goalies against one another.
Timmah007 liked this.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:29 a.m.
#20
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
His first 5 years in the league aren't evidence??? You're basing your claim off this worst 2. Definitely gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, I think you'd be in the minority here.


I'm basing my claim on recent history. I couldn't care less how good he was 3 years ago, I'm not trading for that guy.

That's your mistake - you're going off his reputation which is based on his play 3+ years ago and completely ignoring his recent history.

Here was the goalie leaderboard the last time Gibson was on it (2017-18, minimum 25 GP)
1. Hutton: .931
2. Raanta: .930
3. Luongo: .929
4. Crawford: .929
5. Miller: .928**
6. Fleury: .928
7. Rinne: .927
8. Gibson: .926**
9. Saros: .925
10. Hellebuyck: .924
11. Grubauer: .923
12. Quick: .921

How many of these guys do you consider to be an elite goalie? Also, note how Gibson's backup (Ryan Miller) has a better save percentage than he does, apparently Gibson wasn't the wunderkind you think he is even then.

Maybe the Oilers should blow their wad on Carter Hutton, huh?
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:31 a.m.
#21
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
His first 5 years in the league aren't evidence??? You're basing your claim off this worst 2. Definitely gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, I think you'd be in the minority here.


John Gibson all situations save percentage
16-17: .924
17-18: .926
1st half 18-19: .924
2nd half 18-19: .906 - below average
19-20: .904 - below average
20-21: .903 - below average

He isn't worth his contract.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 11:56 a.m.
#22
Go Jets Go
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 3,746
Likes: 2,356
Quoting: CD282
I'm basing my claim on recent history. I couldn't care less how good he was 3 years ago, I'm not trading for that guy.

That's your mistake - you're going off his reputation which is based on his play 3+ years ago and completely ignoring his recent history.

Here was the goalie leaderboard the last time Gibson was on it (2017-18, minimum 25 GP)
1. Hutton: .931
2. Raanta: .930
3. Luongo: .929
4. Crawford: .929
5. Miller: .928**
6. Fleury: .928
7. Rinne: .927
8. Gibson: .926**
9. Saros: .925
10. Hellebuyck: .924
11. Grubauer: .923
12. Quick: .921

How many of these guys do you consider to be an elite goalie? Also, note how Gibson's backup (Ryan Miller) has a better save percentage than he does, apparently Gibson wasn't the wunderkind you think he is even then.

Maybe the Oilers should blow their wad on Carter Hutton, huh?


When was the last time Koskinen was on one of those boards?????????? grimace
Oct. 28, 2021 at 12:02 p.m.
#23
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
When was the last time Koskinen was on one of those boards?????????? grimace


Yesterday?
Oct. 28, 2021 at 12:05 p.m.
#24
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
When was the last time Koskinen was on one of those boards?????????? grimace


Quoting: CD282
Yesterday?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies
He just had a bad outing and he's still 11th as of this morning.
Oct. 28, 2021 at 12:08 p.m.
#25
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Rooney
When was the last time Koskinen was on one of those boards?????????? grimace


Quoting: CD282
Yesterday?


Quoting: CD282
http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies
He just had a bad outing and he's still 11th as of this morning.

10th if you filter by 4 GP (31 goalies). Gibson is 19th (below average).

http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll