Can't see the Kings being interested in Holl at the expense of anyone of their players/prospects. Especially not someone currently in their top-6.

Pay through the nose to move Holl in this trade (ie, your 1st rounder) or change it to Liljegren and a 2nd/3rd. The Kings aren't desperate enough for defenseman to make a lopsided trade against them. If things continue to go poorly, they'll just let it run its course and get a lottery pick. They want to contend for a playoff spot, but they've been nothing if not patient with the rebuild.

your evaluation of player value is insanely braindead

Solid contribution. Well thought out and a good argument. I'm convinced.

... Not.

Sorry that:
1) other teams aren't willing to bend over backwards to make your team better and
2) the answer wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Heck, you even wanted retention on the clearly better player lol. I don't feel as if this conversation will go anywhere. Have a nice evening.

Solid contribution. Well thought out and a good argument. I'm convinced.

... Not.

Sorry that:
1) other teams aren't willing to bend over backwards to make your team better and
2) the answer wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Heck, you even wanted retention on the clearly better player lol. I don't feel as if this conversation will go anywhere. Have a nice evening.

Kempe is better than any LW currently on your roster. We won't be trading him for Justin Holl and your 2022 second. And since both players have a cap hit of $2 million, why would either team retain?

He certainly hasn't proven that. Kempe's been no more than a 30 point winger for his career. I like his game and do value him but that's his ceiling he's shown so far. Holl hasn't been great this season but he's proven to be a top 4 defenceman who so happens to be a RD which the Kings are aggressively looking for.

Seems like a reasonable hockey trade. We can discuss who adds if anyone does but it's a rather even deal.

It's not close to even from my PoV. Holl turns 30 at mid-season and is under contract for one more year, and is a bottom-pairing guy (at least on our team, behind Doughty and Roy, and probably wouldn't replace Sean Walker if the latter were healthy). Kempe is 25, an RFA under team control for at least two more years, has 61 points in 125 games over the last two seasons, and is at worst a middle-6 forward. I don't think that even in our currently straitened situation, we'd trade Kempe for Holl and your 2022 second.

It's not close to even from my PoV. Holl turns 30 at mid-season and is under contract for one more year, and is a bottom-pairing guy (at least on our team, behind Doughty and Roy, and probably wouldn't replace Sean Walker if the latter were healthy). Kempe is 25, an RFA under team control for at least two more years, has 61 points in 125 games over the last two seasons, and is at worst a middle-6 forward. I don't think that even in our currently straitened situation, we'd trade Kempe for Holl and your 2022 second.

Kempe is better than ritchie. I don’t think you can claim he is better than nylander bunting kerfoot as you tried to point out earlier. Seems to be on par with Engvall this season despite playing top 6 minutes, but the season is still early.

walker is done for the season and Doughty is out for 6 weeks. I think Holl would fit the bill perfectly here. I wouldn’t say that roy certainly plays 82 games when Doughty returns.

I can’t see any other player on the kings that would fit for a trade for an rhd. I don’t think they want to move their 1st or even a 2nd in this draft. They certainly aren’t getting a top 4 rhd for less than that.

I think leafs have the depth to cover moving Holl but even then I have my reservations about moving him. That’s usually when the injuries start piling up.

Possibly but Holl is better than anyone on here gives him credit for.

I'm not denying that Holl is a solid NHLer (NOT an "in-betweener" or a seventh D). I'd put him on a par with Sean Walker.

I bet Holl bounces back to form. For LA though, does the aging core want to wait another year? Or will they pay a premium for RD help?

I think Holl is a fine stop-gap for us. It would make sense for us to acquire him. I just don't think that we should pay Kempe, a first or a second for him.

2 things,

One you definitely are undervaluing Holl. He hasn't been the best yet but he's definitely still a good player. Its been 8 games only. Couple that with the fact that Kempe hasn't ever been more than a 30 point winger, it's fairly even given the roles the players play on their team.

Secondly, your team has an old core that still wants to win. They won't likely feel good about wasting a year. Getting defensive help could be a huge help in turning this around and fighting for the playoffs in a wide open west.

Its a trade that makes a lot of sense. Not sure I'd do it but it's not one that overly favors either team. Fills holes on both sides

I hear your second point. But that core has been losing for years, and that's without one of them being the injury. Blake has shown little to no initiative to increase the speed of the rebuild for the sake of the core. Thats not a bad thing, from my point of view, just facts.

As far as your first point, I can't see Holl being anything more than a 3RD when Doughty is back. Roy is the Kings second best defenseman by a wide margin at this point.

Also, while the 30 point comment is technically true, it discounts the shortened season last year. He ended with 29 points in 52 games. That's a 20 goal, 40 point pace in an 82 game season. I can only imagine how that would increase playing for an offensive team like the Leafs, where he'd likely be on a line with JT and Nylander, or some such combo.

Regardless, the biggest piece is something that OldNYIfan brought up, and that's contract status. Kempe's value comes in the fact that he's a RFA with team control on a phenomenal contract. The Leafs would be getting at least 3 years of him, likely more. Whereas Holl has only a year left of his contract and doesn't fit into the Kings plans outside of a stopgap for this year. Especially with the Kings RD pipeline of Clarke, Faber, Grans and Spence all soon to be pushing for spots.

Well you are going to need to pay something to get a RD. Holl could be available but it would have to solve the LW issue the Leafs look like they have. Perhaps a different winger could be sold instead.

I dont disagree. My very original point was I just don't think the Kings are willing to part with players/prospects for a guy of Holl's talent, that's all. Mid round pick or picks? Sure, why not.

But unless the Leafs are willing to up what they're sending to LA with Holl, I just don't see a fit for a trade where Kempe is going out. If Kempe is on the outs by the trade deadline, the Kings will be looking for a 1st round pick for him. They won't panic this early into the season and send him out for less just to fill a short-term need. That's just bad business.

As far as other players? Sure we can talk about moving Grundstrom.

A 1 round pick for a guy who has never scored more than 40 points in a season is a ridiculous ask

61 points in the 125 games of the last two attenuated seasons annualizes out to 40 points per season.

I dont disagree. My very original point was I just don't think the Kings are willing to part with players/prospects for a guy of Holl's talent, that's all. Mid round pick or picks? Sure, why not.

But unless the Leafs are willing to up what they're sending to LA with Holl, I just don't see a fit for a trade where Kempe is going out. If Kempe is on the outs by the trade deadline, the Kings will be looking for a 1st round pick for him. They won't panic this early into the season and send him out for less just to fill a short-term need. That's just bad business.

As far as other players? Sure we can talk about moving Grundstrom.

So your plan is to give up nothing for a good top 4 defenceman. Good luck

Asking a 1st round pick for a 40 point player is ridiculous.