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PIT Trade

Created by: gpmack95
Team: 2021-22 St. Louis Blues
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 13, 2021
Published: Nov. 13, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
1.
STL
  1. Pettersson, Marcus
  2. 2022 4th round pick (PIT)
PIT
  1. Barbashev, Ivan
  2. Bortuzzo, Robert
  3. 2022 6th round pick (STL)
2.
STL
  1. Strålman, Anton ($1,500,000 retained)
ARI
  1. Brown, Logan
  2. Scandella, Marco
  3. 2022 4th round pick (OTT)
  4. 2023 2nd round pick (STL)
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the STL
2023
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
2024
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
Logo of the STL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$71,232,357$306,349$1,675,000$10,267,643
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$4,000,000$4,000,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$1,875,000$1,875,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$5,800,000$5,800,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 4
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$6,500,000$6,500,000
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 7
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$3,750,000$3,750,000
RW
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$2,800,000$2,800,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$750,000$750,000 (Performance Bonus$1,250,000$1M)
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$2,800,000$2,800,000
RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$750,000$750,000
LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$6,500,000$6,500,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$6,000,000$6,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,025,175$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 4
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$725,000$725,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,000,000$4,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$787,500$787,500
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the St. Louis Blues
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW
UFA - 1

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Nov. 13, 2021 at 1:43 p.m.
#1
mokumboi
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Uhh no. You're not getting Barby.
Nov. 13, 2021 at 3:08 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: mokumboi
Uhh no. You're not getting Barby.


So everyone but Tarasenko Bortuzzo and Scandella are untouchables with you guys?
Nov. 13, 2021 at 3:17 p.m.
#3
mokumboi
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Quoting: gpmack95
So everyone but Tarasenko Bortuzzo and Scandella are untouchables with you guys?



Dude, Barby is cheap and he's having a breakout season. Army doesn't trade what's working. And we can't afford this anyway.
Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:43 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: gpmack95
So everyone but Tarasenko Bortuzzo and Scandella are untouchables with you guys?


Barbashev has been one of the best players on the Blues. Marcus Pettersson has been a meh player on the Penguins. Bortuzzo, Scandella, Clifford are most likely the guys that go due to Blues most likely not being interested, but yeah I doubt Barbashev goes anymore. He's been one of the most if not the most affective player in forechecking, defense, PK, and sometimes even on offense.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 5:40 p.m.
#5
Good Opinion Haver
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Edited Nov. 14, 2021 at 5:48 p.m.
Quoting: gpmack95
So everyone but Tarasenko Bortuzzo and Scandella are untouchables with you guys?


Quoting: mokumboi
Dude, Barby is cheap and he's having a breakout season. Army doesn't trade what's working. And we can't afford this anyway.


Quoting: BeastModeUnknown
Barbashev has been one of the best players on the Blues. Marcus Pettersson has been a meh player on the Penguins. Bortuzzo, Scandella, Clifford are most likely the guys that go due to Blues most likely not being interested, but yeah I doubt Barbashev goes anymore. He's been one of the most if not the most affective player in forechecking, defense, PK, and sometimes even on offense.


I don't really want to lose Barbashev either because I truly do think he's a useful player, but let's not overstate what he's doing right now (or understate how good Pettersson has been- he's been the best defenseman on the Penguins by a long shot this year, if only someone had predicted this!).

Barbashev has been very very good on that line. He- and the rest of that line- are also giving up way more high danger chances than everyone else on the team, more high danger chances than they are creating. Tarasenko, Thomas and Barbashev are 1,2 and 4 on the Blues in xGA/60, so this idea that Barabshev is actually good defensively is a myth. And the idea that this has been working- The Blues have one regulation win in their last six games (against the Sharks), their only other win in that time is a shootout win against the Jets that even the most optimistic Blues fans have to admit Binnington completely stole, and they were outscored by the 2021 LA Kings and the 2021 Anaheim Ducks in that time frame as well. So something isn't working, obviously. I don't believe that every player needs to play a 200 foot game, but at some point you have to start pointing fingers at your worst defensive line, even if its your best offensive line. The fact that Barbashev has currently seen more TOI/G than Buchnevich (I am throwing out the game he got ejected, it's still less), Kyrou and Saad is truly mind boggling.

Not saying we should necessarily give him up for Pettersson (although Pettersson is very good and we should want him even though Mokumboi is right and it would be difficult to afford him) but he hasn't been a world beater like seems to be the popular narrative and if a trade comes along that makes sense he is absolutely expendable even though yes I would prefer not to (and I think BeastMode is right that the Blues will never trade him, for...reasons).
Nov. 14, 2021 at 6:03 p.m.
#6
mokumboi
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Edited Nov. 14, 2021 at 6:12 p.m.
Quoting: TheEarthmaster
I don't really want to lose Barbashev either because I truly do think he's a useful player, but let's not overstate what he's doing right now (or understate how good Pettersson has been- he's been the best defenseman on the Penguins by a long shot this year, if only someone had predicted this!).

Barbashev has been very very good on that line. He- and the rest of that line- are also giving up way more high danger chances than everyone else on the team, more high danger chances than they are creating. Tarasenko, Thomas and Barbashev are 1,2 and 4 on the Blues in xGA/60, so this idea that Barabshev is actually good defensively is a myth. And the idea that this has been working- The Blues have one regulation win in their last six games (against the Sharks), their only other win in that time is a shootout win against the Jets were even the most optimistic Blues fans have to admit Binnington completely stole, and they were outscored by the 2021 LA Kings and the 2021 Anaheim in that time frame as well. So something isn't working, obviously. I don't believe that every player needs to play a 200 foot game, but at some point you have to start pointing fingers at your worst defensive line, even if its your best offensive line. The fact that Barbashev has currently seen more TOI/G than Buchnevich (I am throwing out the game he got ejected, it's still less), Kyrou and Saad is truly mind boggling.

Not saying we should necessarily give him up for Pettersson (although Pettersson is very good and we should want him even though Mokumboi is right and it would be difficult to afford him) but he hasn't been a world beater like seems to be the popular narrative and if a trade comes along that makes sense he is absolutely expendable even though yes I would prefer not to (and I think BeastMode is right that the Blues will never trade him).



Setting aside that I'm not a fan of RAPM, let's remember that we're talking about nine games (for a guy who historically loves to turn the puck over in the D-zone). And that being the Pens best D-man so far this season is a rather low bar to hurdle. Besides, he just had COVID and now he's injured, too.

As for Barby, let's add some simple context to the xGA/60 business (as opposed to the trickier context of actually assigning blame for the chances given up when he's on the ice). That number doesn't factor in his fantastic PK work, and he's still outperforming those numbers with his GF% (which is obviously the one that actually counts). He's also 2nd on the team in takeaways, 4th on the team in x+/- and 2nd among our forwards in hits (which is quite important, because we ain't the physical team we used to be). In other words, I think you're selling his play well short.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 6:58 p.m.
#7
Good Opinion Haver
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Edited Nov. 14, 2021 at 7:03 p.m.
Quoting: mokumboi
Setting aside that I'm not a fan of RAPM, let's remember that we're talking about nine games (for a guy who historically loves to turn the puck over in the D-zone). And that being the Pens best D-man so far this season is a rather low bar to hurdle. Besides, he just had COVID and now he's injured, too.

As for Barby, let's add some simple context to the xGA/60 business (as opposed to the trickier context of actually assigning blame for the chances given up when he's on the ice). That number doesn't factor in his fantastic PK work, and he's still outperforming those numbers with his GF% (which is obviously the one that actually counts). He's also 2nd on the team in takeaways, 4th on the team in x+/- and 2nd among our forwards in hits (which is quite important, because we ain't the physical team we used to be). In other words, I think you're selling his play well short.


So for Pettersson a good performance this season can be dismissed because it's only been 9 games but for Barbashev a good performance this season means he's "in the midst of a breakout season'? Seems like a bit of a double standard from your end. I'll acknowledge that Pettersson is way outperforming his xGF and we can't expect him to keep that up, but he has a proven track record of reducing high danger chances for multiple seasons now and that's the skillset I made his case for as an asset to the Blues. The turnover things is silly and always has been, he's totally fine at that and as I told you before multiple defensemen on our team and the other options people are throwing out there (Lindholm, Kulak, etc) are much worse than he is at that too.

Also you didn't seem to not like RAPM when you were posting Vince Dunn's charts and Alex Pietrangelo's stuff from Evolving Hockey when people would trade for them or sign them out from under the Blues. Their GAR model is heavily predicated on RAPM. So do you just not like it when it doesn't support your previously held opinion or....

I don't think I'm selling Barbashev short at all. I said he had been very very good and I said he was a useful player and that I didn't want to trade him. I even said I wouldn't trade him for Pettersson, a player I've been very supportive of. Especially if he's playing above the fourth line and doing well that's a huge boon for my view of him, because I think it's tough to be devoting nearly six million dollars (with Sundqvist and Clifford) to your fourth line. I was just saying let's temper expectations because he's clearly riding a hot one here. He's been fine on the PK, as always. I flatly disagree with your evaluation of hits because while I understand that there's a physicality to hockey a player who is hitting a lot usually doesn't have the puck a lot and if you're playing up the lineup possession is extremely important. You make a fair point about his GF% but it only counts in so far as evaluating his current performance, not as a predictor of things moving forward. His xGF% is 50% (still fine! But obviously less) and that's what you can expect going forward. But I don't think any of that invalidates what I said- he's been good, but other players who are getting less opportunity at 5v5 have been better and also our team hasn't been good so maybe it would be smart to switch things up.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 9:26 p.m.
#8
mokumboi
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster

Also you didn't seem to not like RAPM when you were posting Vince Dunn's charts and Alex Pietrangelo's stuff from Evolving Hockey when people would trade for them or sign them out from under the Blues.



I'll answer the rest later, but ummm that never happened. I have never once ever posted an RAPM graphic for anyone. You're thinking of Beast.
 
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