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What I would want

Created by: Theozler
Team: 2021-22 Colorado Avalanche
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 13, 2021
Published: Nov. 13, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Think it still leans in canadiens favour but addresses two big needs for avs
Trades
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
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2023
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2024
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,518,963$1,741,463$3,350,000-$18,963
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW, C
NMC
UFA - 8
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$6,300,000$6,300,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$9,250,000$9,250,000
RW, C
UFA - 4
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$4,900,000$4,900,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
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$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$908,333$908,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
C, LW
RFA - 2
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$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 6
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
C
UFA - 2
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$1,075,000$1,075,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 3
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$9,000,000$9,000,000
RD
UFA - 6
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$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
LD/RD
RFA - 2
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$6,000,000$6,000,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
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$3,500,000$3,500,000
G
UFA - 1
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$2,000,000$2,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
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$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
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$750,000$750,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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$750,000$750,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$750,000$750,000
LW
UFA - 1
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$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:44 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: Theozler
Would Anderson be a last piece for a cup run though? I think they need another physical forward who can score and Anderson fits the bill. If it got them the cup you worry about the cap after.


I hear that argument and could be on board with an overpay or whatever if the risk/return profile is there. To me it isn't with Anderson though (at least not at the cost of Girard).

Heck, we have seen Toews and Makar miss time this year. Now Byram is out for who knows how long. Defensive depth is really good to have, and I'm not sure the Avs have enough to withstand losing Sammy G at this time. Last thing I want is Jack Johnson in the top 4, lol.
Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:45 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: Drakin1978
as much as this season and past trades have taught me is never say zero chance


did you predict the eichle trade or the dvorak trade?.... everyone over valued them and the return looked nothing like what we predicted and everyone calling good values... not enough...no way...never happen...they hang up. You never know thats why we are not GMS


Actually, go back through my Eichel ACGM's you will see I was very very close on value. Dvorak again I said I wouldn't pay more than a 2nd plus, which BTW is what MB should have paid but he put himself in a position of weakness again before the trade and cost himself more than fair value.
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Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:47 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Anus_McLeod
I hear that argument and could be on board with an overpay or whatever if the risk/return profile is there. To me it isn't with Anderson though (at least not at the cost of Girard).

Heck, we have seen Toews and Makar miss time this year. Now Byram is out for who knows how long. Defensive depth is really good to have, and I'm not sure the Avs have enough to withstand losing Sammy G at this time. Last thing I want is Jack Johnson in the top 4, lol.


Jack Johnson was a third overall pick ahead of Carey price
Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:49 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Drakin1978
his values was you are right but not on this site it wasnt. Very few on here would admit that when trade proposals were suggested
and again Savard trade no one would have predicted a 1st+3rd
Jones is >than girard everyone has an opinion and again as you said overpay , would no one predicts that haul for him

it depends on the end goal and as you state wehat Colorado wants
this trade addresses3 of the wants and needs of Colorado, the secondary scoring, toughness, and goalie depth at the expense of d-depth.

we don't have to agree the conversation is good, i see your points and hope you see mine agree or not


Totally good. Fans on CF very rarely are objective about the value of their favorite teams players. I try and be objective, and honestly MTL isn’t a good trade partner even if COL were inclined to trade Girard (thanks Chambers and his click bait article). COL would want a young proven top 6 forward tied up long term, that eliminates everybody on MTL outside of Suzuki which MTL isn’t doing. Drouin currently has zero value because no GM is going to give up anything approaching real value because of his situation. Toffoli, not good enough alone, and COL showed zero interest in him at the TDL last year or FA. Gallagher, to old to expensive. I’m in the minority but I don’t think the Avs would be interested in Caulfied because they want help now. Anderson to expensive, to erratic and that contract is not going to age well. Sakic has shown repeatedly he won’t make a deal he doesn’t like. I mean what’s the down side of keeping Girard, a 23yo top 4(on the Avs top pairing most other places) locked up through his peak prime years where he already paid less than 54 other dmen in the NHL.
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Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:49 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: Theozler
Jack Johnson was a third overall pick ahead of Carey price


Hey, he had a nice career. He just ain't what he used to be.
Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:51 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: Anus_McLeod
Hey, he had a nice career. He just ain't what he used to be.


I know it was a joke. He’s ok but you’re correct about not wanting him top 4
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Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:56 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: Xqb15a
Totally good. Fans on CF very rarely are objective about the value of their favorite teams players. I try and be objective, and honestly MTL isn’t a good trade partner even if COL were inclined to trade Girard (thanks Chambers and his click bait article). COL would want a young proven top 6 forward tied up long term, that eliminates everybody on MTL outside of Suzuki which MTL isn’t doing. Drouin currently has zero value because no GM is going to give up anything approaching real value because of his situation. Toffoli, not good enough alone, and COL showed zero interest in him at the TDL last year or FA. Gallagher, to old to expensive. I’m in the minority but I don’t think the Avs would be interested in Caulfied because they want help now. Anderson to expensive, to erratic and that contract is not going to age well. Sakic has shown repeatedly he won’t make a deal he doesn’t like. I mean what’s the down side of keeping Girard, a 23yo top 4(on the Avs top pairing most other places) locked up through his peak prime years where he already paid less than 54 other dmen in the NHL.


i think this works and get the avs a cup but I agree Sakic as gm is to intelligent and will look long term not all gms would and belive most gms pull the trigger on this. I llike girard but at his price i would go for branstrrom out of Ottawa
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Nov. 13, 2021 at 4:57 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: Drakin1978
that's fair. He is the new shinny piece everyone is talking about and i think that also drives the chatter in here in terms of value/de-value. I don't think he could be a true top 2 d-man in the role as a second pair he shines and can be great. Branstrom in ottawa has a similar build, similar ceiling and similar deficientcies. I see Girard farther along in his development of his skills making him a more expensive option to acquire. Girard has the added benefit of playing on a very good team. I see Byram passing him on the depth chart sooner rather than later


This right here is where I see his role as well, hence the reason I say Toffoli 1 for 1. Top 6 forward for 2nd pair D man or Drouin + 3rd since Drouins value is low right now.
Nov. 13, 2021 at 5:04 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: Campabee
This right here is where I see his role as well, hence the reason I say Toffoli 1 for 1. Top 6 forward for 2nd pair D man or Drouin + 3rd since Drouins value is low right now.


i mean i would even do drouin + 2nd but i dont think that would fly here
Nov. 13, 2021 at 5:05 p.m.
#35
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Dang. A 2 page acgm. Also, as if this already wasn't bad enough for COL, they most certainly do not trade Girard for a 30 year old winger.
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Nov. 13, 2021 at 6:24 p.m.
#36
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This seems like a poor deal for COL in my opinion, Anderson is a middle six player on a strong team and Allen is a backup. Seems like a light price for a versatile defenseman who some believed should have been in the conversation for the Norris last season.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 7:57 a.m.
#37
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue




https://ibb.co/ySrTjVk


Quoting: Xqb15a
Except Mete has never averaged 20+ minutes, never scored 20+ pts, never had shot metrics like Girard has multiple seasons. Mete has however been placed on waivers. I mean seriously you’re comparing Girard to Mete what a joke.


Old "Sammy one move" with a stellar 4 point game. Great timing on the critical comment from our Drouin plus a third friend, lol.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 10:02 a.m.
#38
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Quoting: Campabee
This right here is where I see his role as well, hence the reason I say Toffoli 1 for 1. Top 6 forward for 2nd pair D man or Drouin + 3rd since Drouins value is low right now.


Problem is, Girard is pretty damn consistent (outside of his slow start this season) while Toffoli is prone to stretches of mediocre play. I feel like last year was an aberration for him in a "lightning-in-a-bottle" situation for the Habs so now he's being a bit overvalued. Plus, he's 29 years old with 2 more years after this year left on his deal. I think the ceiling in terms of age for the Avs would be 25 for anyone they'd trade Girard for considering Sammy's age and how much term he has left on his deal.

What seems fair to me for Girard is a younger wing or center that can put up 50 points and play good defense. Not sure who that is but if you're getting a D that can do what he does and gives you 30-40 points, many of them at even strength, that seems more-or-less fair.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 10:13 a.m.
#39
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Quoting: NMAvsFan
Problem is, Girard is pretty damn consistent (outside of his slow start this season) while Toffoli is prone to stretches of mediocre play. I feel like last year was an aberration for him in a "lightning-in-a-bottle" situation for the Habs so now he's being a bit overvalued. Plus, he's 29 years old with 2 more years after this year left on his deal. I think the ceiling in terms of age for the Avs would be 25 for anyone they'd trade Girard for considering Sammy's age and how much term he has left on his deal.

What seems fair to me for Girard is a younger wing or center that can put up 50 points and play good defense. Not sure who that is but if you're getting a D that can do what he does and gives you 30-40 points, many of them at even strength, that seems more-or-less fair.


Problem is with Girard is he I too soft defensively, like Mete he gets pushed around his own end too much. His transition play and zone exits are good but he also has a lot of turnovers due to his transition style creating a lot of odd man rushes against. For a team like the Habs who already lead the league over the last 2 seasons for odd man rushes against that is a huge liability. We need a sound 2 way d man not an offensive minded one who gets pushed around and makes poor choices under pressure.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 10:18 a.m.
#40
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Quoting: Campabee
Problem is with Girard is he I too soft defensively, like Mete he gets pushed around his own end too much. His transition play and zone exits are good but he also has a lot of turnovers due to his transition style creating a lot of odd man rushes against. For a team like the Habs who already lead the league over the last 2 seasons for odd man rushes against that is a huge liability. We need a sound 2 way d man not an offensive minded one who gets pushed around and makes poor choices under pressure.


That would be an issue if it were true in a general sense but it isn't. Has it happened to him a few times? Sure but it happens to everyone. But in general, Sammy is pretty responsible with the puck and makes good decisions with it. The comparison to Mete isn't appropriate in the least outside of their comparable size.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 10:28 a.m.
#41
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Quoting: NMAvsFan
That would be an issue if it were true in a general sense but it isn't. Has it happened to him a few times? Sure but it happens to everyone. But in general, Sammy is pretty responsible with the puck and makes good decisions with it. The comparison to Mete isn't appropriate in the least outside of their comparable size.


The comparison with Mete was strictly about size and getting pushed off the puck. I see Avs fans on other sites complaining a lot about Girards turnovers and defensive play all the time, especially Twitter.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 10:40 a.m.
#42
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Quoting: Campabee
The comparison with Mete was strictly about size and getting pushed off the puck. I see Avs fans on other sites complaining a lot about Girards turnovers and defensive play all the time, especially Twitter.


He had a tough start to the season, for sure, but his career numbers are quite strong both offensively and defensively. And, to be fair, the entire team has not been good defensively this season - last night was the first time things actually came together for them all season and it still needs work, LOL.

If you're basing your opinion of him off what some people say on social media, I'd suggest you actually watch him play and check out his advanced stats. He wasn't under Norris consideration last year for nothing. Is he great defensively? No and his size does play into that but you get a lot more from him than he gives up, especially at that price and his age. And he may be considered "expendable" if the injury issues improve and the right deal comes along but the Avs aren't actively looking to get rid of him.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 11:08 a.m.
#43
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Quoting: NMAvsFan
He had a tough start to the season, for sure, but his career numbers are quite strong both offensively and defensively. And, to be fair, the entire team has not been good defensively this season - last night was the first time things actually came together for them all season and it still needs work, LOL.

If you're basing your opinion of him off what some people say on social media, I'd suggest you actually watch him play and check out his advanced stats. He wasn't under Norris consideration last year for nothing. Is he great defensively? No and his size does play into that but you get a lot more from him than he gives up, especially at that price and his age. And he may be considered "expendable" if the injury issues improve and the right deal comes along but the Avs aren't actively looking to get rid of him.


Living in eastern Canada, I don't get to see many Avs games TBH. Because of that I have to rely on Avs fans opinions of their players, since social media (Twitter, FB and even CF) is the only communication/interaction anyone can have online this all I have to go on. As for Norris considerations, they are heavily driven by point production and not really based on defensive ability. I wasn't saying that Girard wasn't good or that he wouldn't be our defacto 1LD cause he is good and would be but like the other guy said he is more of a 2LD on contending teams, which right now would be a 1LD on our team LOL. Toffoli is also a bit under rated on this site he consistently scores 20+ goals and is capable of hitting 30 goals (he did in L.A. and was on pace to do so last season) . He would fetch a 1st + 2nd or 3rd at the deadline, compare this to Girard who I see netting a 1st + 2nd and the values are pretty even. Of course Girard is on a good contract for longer but Toffoli's deal is pretty sweet as well and for a contending team like the Avs looking for scoring help the need outweighs the benefit of having Girard on the 3rd pairing or on his off side. The fact that Toffoli is also a natural RW increases the value to Colorado as he would easily be the Avs 2nd best RW. Is it a move that puts the Avs over the top? No but it gets them a lot closer than the current roster does.
Nov. 14, 2021 at 11:38 a.m.
#44
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Quoting: Campabee
Living in eastern Canada, I don't get to see many Avs games TBH. Because of that I have to rely on Avs fans opinions of their players, since social media (Twitter, FB and even CF) is the only communication/interaction anyone can have online this all I have to go on. As for Norris considerations, they are heavily driven by point production and not really based on defensive ability. I wasn't saying that Girard wasn't good or that he wouldn't be our defacto 1LD cause he is good and would be but like the other guy said he is more of a 2LD on contending teams, which right now would be a 1LD on our team LOL. Toffoli is also a bit under rated on this site he consistently scores 20+ goals and is capable of hitting 30 goals (he did in L.A. and was on pace to do so last season) . He would fetch a 1st + 2nd or 3rd at the deadline, compare this to Girard who I see netting a 1st + 2nd and the values are pretty even. Of course Girard is on a good contract for longer but Toffoli's deal is pretty sweet as well and for a contending team like the Avs looking for scoring help the need outweighs the benefit of having Girard on the 3rd pairing or on his off side. The fact that Toffoli is also a natural RW increases the value to Colorado as he would easily be the Avs 2nd best RW. Is it a move that puts the Avs over the top? No but it gets them a lot closer than the current roster does.


Quoting: Campabee
Problem is with Girard is he I too soft defensively, like Mete he gets pushed around his own end too much. His transition play and zone exits are good but he also has a lot of turnovers due to his transition style creating a lot of odd man rushes against. For a team like the Habs who already lead the league over the last 2 seasons for odd man rushes against that is a huge liability. We need a sound 2 way d man not an offensive minded one who gets pushed around and makes poor choices under pressure.

Except metrics don’t say that, you do. You don’t like him because he is short. That’s your prerogative, but to use he is soft and he has turnovers on exits AND the absolute insistence to compare him to a player that can’t hold his jock is a joke. Get it you’re a homer everybody is, but bruh Mete to Girard is like saying MacDermid is going to be as good as Chara was. I mean points, toi, CF, CA, Offense, transition ffs a players card was provided. Just roll with I would do this and don’t go about making up facts and player comparisons that
Quoting: Campabee
Living in eastern Canada, I don't get to see many Avs games TBH. Because of that I have to rely on Avs fans opinions of their players, since social media (Twitter, FB and even CF) is the only communication/interaction anyone can have online this all I have to go on. As for Norris considerations, they are heavily driven by point production and not really based on defensive ability. I wasn't saying that Girard wasn't good or that he wouldn't be our defacto 1LD cause he is good and would be but like the other guy said he is more of a 2LD on contending teams, which right now would be a 1LD on our team LOL. Toffoli is also a bit under rated on this site he consistently scores 20+ goals and is capable of hitting 30 goals (he did in L.A. and was on pace to do so last season) . He would fetch a 1st + 2nd or 3rd at the deadline, compare this to Girard who I see netting a 1st + 2nd and the values are pretty even. Of course Girard is on a good contract for longer but Toffoli's deal is pretty sweet as well and for a contending team like the Avs looking for scoring help the need outweighs the benefit of having Girard on the 3rd pairing or on his off side. The fact that Toffoli is also a natural RW increases the value to Colorado as he would easily be the Avs 2nd best RW. Is it a move that puts the Avs over the top? No but it gets them a lot closer than the current roster does.


Except he wouldn’t. Burakovsky is significantly better on the right and is significantly more dynamic than Toffoli. You seem to refuse several key factors or ignore them. Girard is good defensively, great with his stick, great positionally like all smaller players he has size struggles but significantly less than most because he is active with his stick and skates and proactively works to avoid those situations. He produces offense while NOT getting PP1 time, he eats 20+ minutes, and he is signed team friendly for the entirety of his prime years on a team friendly deal. How is that deal going to look in 2 years when he is 25? Even better. There is a significant component to any team wanting to acquire Girard acknowledging he is 1) a top pairing dman because he is he just happens to play in COL 2) his contract is found gold he is set and forget for a team for half a decade 3) COL isn’t going to make a trade that doesn’t benefit them long and short term. 4) I keep saying it Girard is better than Jones, yeah CHIC over paid but don’t think for a minute Sakic isn’t taking that stance. Toffoli doesn’t get the job done alone, not even close, Drouin is a joke no GM in the league is paying anything of substance for a $5.5M player that left the team in the playoffs.
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Nov. 14, 2021 at 11:50 a.m.
#45
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Imo. Toffoli and Chiarot, with max retention on the latter, is a good fit for the Avs and a decent return with an eye towards winning now. Both players bolster the middle of the roster and can be used higher or lower as need dictates. If there's a perceived imbalance in value, cover it with conditional picks.
Drouin makes sense as well, but I understand the reluctance there. The benefit however, would be that he could be had with retention, where Toffoli could not.
Nov. 15, 2021 at 8:22 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: ZachHymanForTheHart
I think a trade based around Drouin for Girard is the way to go, my personal favourite at least.

Upgrade COL froward group and gives them a guy who can play 2C when Kadri inevitably gets suspended in the playoffs.


Ridiculous. Drouin has pretty much zero value when measured against Girard.
Nov. 15, 2021 at 8:44 p.m.
#47
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I like Anderson and frequently traded for him to the Avs when he was in Columbus, and injuries aside that's really when the Avs should have gone after him. He's a perfect fit in a number of ways, especially size. He's also an imperfect fit in others. I don't really see the logic to the back up trade though which fewer have addressed, and is more where the trade falls apart. If/when Francouz is fit he's in as #2 and that's fine. Cheaper and arguably better if he can regain his form pre-injury. Whilst he hasn't played for some time he's shown he's more than capable and was oft better than Grubauer when he was fit. If not fit then MTL would have no interest in him. So I'd pass on the trade from the Avs point of view. Come up with a better addition to the trade than Allen/Francouz and there's maaaaaybe something to work on, however much most Avs fans hate it.
 
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