Admitting Miller has had a good start this season, and Holl has had a slow start. But Holl has been a solid top 4 for the two previous seasons. This is big overpay for Miller and really might not help the Leafs this season.
Leafs are ninth in GAA this season. Why do so many on CF think their Dmen aren't NHL good?

Deal

Holl has some value and Buffalo doesnt need him, the picks are fine enough and you could flip Holl to Pitt for the cap space and recoup like a 2nd or a prospect

honestly i was never a fan of holl, i always thought he only looked good because he played with muzz, i think if we had another guy who was solid for riley to play with he would thrive, and brodie is showing him and muzz were a really good shutdown pair.

yeah i figured it was to much to give up, even for 50% retained.

No thanks. This isn't a good trade for the Leafs.

Holl is a bottom pairing D who has been propped up by strong play from Muzzin the past couple of years. He is only a top four guy on THIS team because there hasn't been anyone else to fill the role adequately.

You don’t think Holl has value to the Sabres? Who do they have for right side D if they aren’t going to sign Miller? I think Holl would be a good option for their 2nd pair, possibly 3rd pair at a reasonable cost and only 1 year commitment..

Also definitely an overpay for Miller

Holl is better than Miller. Miller was jettisoned from Vegas after being a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Miller was a healthy scratch often with Buffalo as well. He's not good defensively either. This is just Gross

Seems like Holl should have value to TO then? You know, because he's better than Miller.

I'm not at all saying he is better than Miller.
Miller is better.
The Leafs would have to add picks/prospects to make a trade work.

I was just saying I don't think a 1st, 3rd, Holl, and Hollowell is a reasonable cost.

you think? even with the 50% retained?

It's a ridiculous cost. Miller has done this his entire career. Short hot streaks that look great but with some underlying issues that hey glossed over by some short term success. Hes always been a guy who bleeds high danger scoring chances. He's a poor man's Jake Gardiner. This whole thing is a classic short sample size blow up. Holl has been better for the past 2 seasons. Without question. But a short term run of bad play while Miller looks good on a team that is playing way above their ability and this is what people do. Miller is not worth the assets and not at all what TO needs.

You are giving up a package for a top defenceman. Miller isn't remotely close to a top defenceman. He's a third pair guy on a good team. He wasn't good enough to stay in the lineup for Vegas.

The Sabres are tanking this year so its not really a concern. Next year they have a lot of prospects that are pretty much guaranteed a spot and thats the direction the franchise is headed, so i dont see much need for him

Who?
I totally get tanking and giving young guys a chance, but you need NHL level players to fill out the roster...
Holl to me seems like a viable option to just plug in.

Samuelsson, Power, and probably Laaksonen on top of Dahlin, Jokiharju, and Bryson

Samuelsson, Power, Dahlin, and Bryson are LHD as you know.

Sure guys can play their off-side, but a bunch of rookies playing their off-side isn't a recipe for success.

Dahlins not a rookie and has the most rd experience of all lf them

I'm clearly not talking about Dahlin. Even then he is pretty young and probably not ideal for him to play full time right side.

Sabres are also going to quite a ways from the cap floor. Somewhere in the 7-10 mill range from the floor.

9 mill to Letang for 3 years

That'd be awesome for the Sabres.
The problem is nobody wants to sign free agent deals with the Sabres for a variety of reasons. (I'm not trying to offend, this is reality)

They should shoot big, but I think they will have to settle for less. I could be totally off with Holl, but thats the type of player I see them getting.

People always say that and then the Sabres sign top end free agents