Forums/Armchair-GM

Stars rebuild

Created by: Drshnuckels91
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 17, 2021
Published: Nov. 18, 2021
Team: 2022-23 Dallas Stars
Team Explanation
Forgot to add to the flames trade but Lucic waives as it's only one year and texas has better housing costs, taxes, and weather than Calgary

Now I don't beleive the stars should rebuild but this offseason they have a chance to get a real good start on one. Two big expiring contracts that take up a lot of money expire (Klingberg,Radulov) and they have two stacked drafts coming up with lot's of draft capital to trade for.
I don't necessarily think that they should as they have a roster that can compete but they have a great young core and some veterans that could pull in some assets in these upcoming drafts.

Please enjoy! Feedback in encouraged
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Stranges, Antonio3$750,000
Johnson, Brent3$850,000
Roulette, Conner3$800,000
Martino, Ayrton3$800,000
Hugo Has, Martin2$775,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Robertson, Jason4$6,750,000
Oettinger, Jake1$3,500,000
Gurianov, Denis2$3,250,000
Salo, Robin1$1,250,000
Bellows, Kieffer2$1,350,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Stecher, Troy1$1,750,000
Zadorov, Nikita1$2,150,000
Ritchie, Brett1$950,000
Motte, Tyler1$1,110,000
Trades
1.
DAL
  1. Rodrigue, Olivier
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (EDM)
EDM
  1. Bishop, Ben
Additional Details:
He has one year left on his deal and a major hit to his value is that he is super injury prone. He waives to edmonton for one more chance at the cup and with his one year deal he won't have to stay there too long(also he is Canadian so he won't mind the change of countries for one year) he is 35 and the fact he gets injured all the time lowers his value a fair amount. A second and a goalie prospect is fair value for a 35-36 year old injury prone goalie with one year on his deal.
2.
DAL
  1. Salo, Robin [RFA Rights]
  2. Pánik, Richard
  3. Bellows, Kieffer [RFA Rights]
  4. 2023 1st round pick (NYI)
  5. 2022 3rd round pick (NYI)
NYI
  1. Lindell, Esa
Additional Details:
A 27 year old good puck-moving defenseman that can play on the left side is something the islanders would love right about now. Not only is lindell signed long term but he is still in his 20's and can shore up that left side for the island. This is a great alternative for lindholm as lindell is already signed and will cost less. You take paink back the other way for cap purposes and get a great young d-man in salo a future first in a stacked draft class and bellows is a great addition(I was thinking of adding raty instead of bellows but that might have been an overpayment) this is a great deal for both sides as the isles get lindell to help that d-core now and long term and the stars get a first and two great prospects
3.
DAL
  1. Johnson, Brent [Reserve List]
  2. Magnusson, Oskar [Reserve List]
  3. 2022 3rd round pick (WSH)
WSH
  1. Suter, Ryan ($1,250,000 retained)
Additional Details:
Capitals don't give up much for suter at a cheap price. He helps their left defense,brings experience and on a retained contract. Dallas gets a 3rd and two prospects that fill prospect holes (RD,RW)
4.
DAL
  1. Lucic, Milan
  2. Zary, Connor
  3. 2022 1st round pick (CGY)
  4. 2022 2nd round pick (FLA)
  5. 2022 2nd round pick (CGY)
CGY
  1. Seguin, Tyler ($3,500,000 retained)
  2. Benn, Jamie ($4,000,000 retained)
Additional Details:
Alright this is a massive one but hey I am taking a risk with it so here we go. The flames need to go for it now they have a ton of guys on overpaid deals that still can play good hockey but not their moneys worth. The flames major issue is offence and benn and seguin bring that. They get them retained and their contracts run near the same time as other major contracts they have on reatined salaries (coleman and seguin expire the same year,tanev and benn) this could be a great move for cap releif. They go for it hard the next 3 years and once that ends all the contracts are off the books and they can start a rebuild. Lucic heads back the other way for salary reasons. The stars get two seconds a first and zary as the main piece. I wanted to move on from seguin and ben here and the flames were the most reasonable fit when it came to teams with a contending roster,cap to give back,in a different division and some form of assets to give. Benn provides great physicality for the flames in the playoffs and can still be a 40-50 point guy and has great experience, seguin is still 29 and can be a 60-90 point guy when healthy on the flames. This trade would be a very all-in move by calgary but with how their contracts and roster is stacked up the next 2-5 years they might have to.
5.
DAL
  1. Hugo Has, Martin [Reserve List]
Additional Details:
Hugo has instead of johnson in the suter trade
WSH
  1. Johnson, Brent
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Ryan Suter: $1,250,000 (34.25%)
  • Tyler Seguin: $3,500,000 (35.53%)
  • Jamie Benn: $4,000,000 (42.11%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
DAL
CGY
DAL
EDM
FLA
CGY
DAL
NYI
WSH
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
2023
DAL
NYI
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
2024
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
DAL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$63,131,666$0$1,257,500$18,368,334
Left WingCenterRight Wing
DAL
Robertson, Jason
$6,750,000
LW, RW
RFA
DAL
Hintz, Roope
$3,150,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
DAL
Gurianov, Denis
$3,250,000
RW, LW
RFA
Bellows, Kieffer
$1,350,000
LW, RW
RFA
DAL
Faksa, Radek
$3,250,000
C
NTC
UFA - 3
DAL
Dellandrea, Ty
$863,333
C, RW
RFA - 1
DAL
Kiviranta, Joel
$1,050,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
CGY
Zary, Connor
$894,167
C
RFA - 2
Motte, Tyler
$1,110,000
LW, RW
UFA
CGY
Lucic, Milan
$5,250,000
LW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
DAL
Glendening, Luke
$1,500,000
C, RW, LW
UFA - 1
NYI
Pánik, Richard
$1,375,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
DAL
Heiskanen, Miro
$8,450,000
LD/RD
UFA - 7
DAL
Hakanpää, Jani
$1,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
DAL
Oettinger, Jake
$3,500,000
G
RFA
Salo, Robin
$1,250,000
LD
RFA
Zadorov, Nikita
$2,150,000
LD/RD
UFA
DAL
Khudobin, Anton
$3,333,333
G
UFA - 1
DAL
Harley, Thomas
$863,333
LD
RFA - 2
Stecher, Troy
$1,750,000
RD
UFA
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Ritchie, Brett
$950,000
RW
UFA
DAL
Peterson, Jacob
$842,500
LW, C
RFA - 1

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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:18 p.m.
#1
I like losing in ot
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 2,864
Brent Johnson is a future John Carlson. Nope give me denis or give me death
Drshnuckels91 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:21 p.m.
#2
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: capsfan2121
Brent Johnson is a future John Carlson. Nope give me denis or give me death


To be honest I haven't seen the guy play at all since I am not a capitals fan. I just took in the factors that the stars needed some RD prospects and the he was a 3rd round pick. So apologies for that I was not aware of his talent
capsfan2121 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:23 p.m.
#3
I like losing in ot
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 2,864
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
To be honest I haven't seen the guy play at all since I am not a capitals fan. I just took in the factors that the stars needed some RD prospects and the he was a 3rd round pick. So apologies for that I was not aware of his talent


No its ok. I’m sorry if I sounded aggressive. He is a very underrated pick and I cant wait to see him play on our team
Drshnuckels91 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:24 p.m.
#4
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: capsfan2121
No its ok. I’m sorry if I sounded aggressive. He is a very underrated pick and I cant wait to see him play on our team


Don't worry at all im gonna try to switch him out in that trade for a different D prospect
capsfan2121 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:25 p.m.
#5
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Ben Bishop hasn't played a game in almost 2 years and you want assets for him?? That's not realistic.
Drshnuckels91 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:28 p.m.
#6
Stop Samsonov Hate
Joined: Nov. 2019
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 1,275
Caps don't have a need for defense right now. I'd rather keep our prospects, instead of going for a defenseman that would at best play 3rd line.
Drshnuckels91 liked this.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:32 p.m.
#7
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: CD282
Ben Bishop hasn't played a game in almost 2 years and you want assets for him?? That's not realistic.


Dude Im an oilers fan as well and our goalie situation next year isn't the best. Odds are smith doesn't come back as the dude just had a knee injury and he is nearing 40 and just had a knee injury. Skinner and kolonov won't be quite ready yet to be the starter and though koskinen is solid he isn't gonna carry us through the playoffs. Yes, bishop has been injured but when he has played recently the dude has averaged a 930. save percentage which is insane. We have three young goalie prospects around the same age and rodrigue is the odd man out of that group. If bishop is healthy our odds of going far in the playoffs go so much higher and risks like those are ones the oilers are going to have to take to compete.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:35 p.m.
#8
Always in Pain
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 22,909
Likes: 15,193
Bishop is not Canadian btw. I don't see him waiving for EDM, it's been almost a decade since he last played in Canada. This very much assuming he's even healthy that is.

While I'd love to see Lindell bringing Stars such a haul, I don't see it happening. He's a good defensive D-man, but his puck moving abilities are not to par, in other words he needs help from a puck moving D to be fully utilized. NYI fans seem to be high on Salo, so I don't see him being offered at all. Best I can see happening is Bellows+some cap dump+1st for Lindell, but even that might be overselling it.

Suter is a decent defenseman as of now but that contract makes it near impossible to move. A guy inked until 41 with a bigger contract just don't sell properly. And frankly I don't think it's a good idea to retain this much on long-term contracts, which brings us to the Flames trade...

While I'm very much in favor of this team retooling, Seguin's and Benn's contracts are nigh on impossible to move. Big contracts, subpar play and the fact that Dallas is one of the league's tax havens makes it very unlikely for them to waive their NMCs. Not that CGY would accept this trade. As you explained Lucic has only one year by that point left and they need all the money they can get to re-sign the likes of Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Furthermore, DAL binds up to $10M bucks from their cap in retained salaries in the long-term. That is simply not sustainable.

If we decide to retool, we need to start it this deadline and capitalize on the value of rentals such as Klingberg, Pavelski and Radulov.
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:35 p.m.
#9
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: NoVaSpartan
Caps don't have a need for defense right now. I'd rather keep our prospects, instead of going for a defenseman that would at best play 3rd line.


Suter in my opinion is an upgrade over Trevor Van Riemsdyk. As I agree suter would be a 3rd line d-man but man he would be the best 3rd line d-man in the league this year he has 8 points in 14 games and is good in his own zone. Also his play style isn't reliant on age so he won't fall off a cliff unless he suffers a major injury. The caps gotta use these last years of ovi and backstrom and suter brings experience and size for that d and the price isn't extremely high for him.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:37 p.m.
#10
Joined: Mar. 2017
Posts: 16,068
Likes: 4,886
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
Dude Im an oilers fan as well and our goalie situation next year isn't the best. Odds are smith doesn't come back as the dude just had a knee injury and he is nearing 40 and just had a knee injury. Skinner and kolonov won't be quite ready yet to be the starter and though koskinen is solid he isn't gonna carry us through the playoffs. Yes, bishop has been injured but when he has played recently the dude has averaged a 930. save percentage which is insane. We have three young goalie prospects around the same age and rodrigue is the odd man out of that group. If bishop is healthy our odds of going far in the playoffs go so much higher and risks like those are ones the oilers are going to have to take to compete.


Bishop had a .920 save percentage in 2019-20. Koskinen was .917 the same year playing behind a FAR worse defense. Bishop has less than zero value right now, he's been out for nearly 2 years.

You worry about Mike Smith's injury and then propose Bishop as a solution? Did I just read that?
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:42 p.m.
#11
Stop Samsonov Hate
Joined: Nov. 2019
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 1,275
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
Suter in my opinion is an upgrade over Trevor Van Riemsdyk. As I agree suter would be a 3rd line d-man but man he would be the best 3rd line d-man in the league this year he has 8 points in 14 games and is good in his own zone. Also his play style isn't reliant on age so he won't fall off a cliff unless he suffers a major injury. The caps gotta use these last years of ovi and backstrom and suter brings experience and size for that d and the price isn't extremely high for him.


Losing a decent prospect in Johnson as well as a 3rd rounder is for me too steep of a price for a 3rd line D that isn't a big need. Suter has been good this year, but so has Van Riemsdyk. He hasn't had the same points production, but has been quite solid defensively and is especially great as he can play other side so if lines get messed up he can plug and play anywhere on D. His versatility and good play this year has earned him a regular role for now, and Suter's leadership isn't needed and could possibly hurt in a locker room with established leaders already, such as Ovi and Oshie.
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:45 p.m.
#12
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: justaBoss
Bishop is not Canadian btw. I don't see him waiving for EDM, it's been almost a decade since he last played in Canada. This very much assuming he's even healthy that is.

While I'd love to see Lindell bringing Stars such a haul, I don't see it happening. He's a good defensive D-man, but his puck moving abilities are not to par, in other words he needs help from a puck moving D to be fully utilized. NYI fans seem to be high on Salo, so I don't see him being offered at all. Best I can see happening is Bellows+some cap dump+1st for Lindell, but even that might be overselling it.

Suter is a decent defenseman as of now but that contract makes it near impossible to move. A guy inked until 41 with a bigger contract just don't sell properly. And frankly I don't think it's a good idea to retain this much on long-term contracts, which brings us to the Flames trade...

While I'm very much in favor of this team retooling, Seguin's and Benn's contracts are nigh on impossible to move. Big contracts, subpar play and the fact that Dallas is one of the league's tax havens makes it very unlikely for them to waive their NMCs. Not that CGY would accept this trade. As you explained Lucic has only one year by that point left and they need all the money they can get to re-sign the likes of Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Furthermore, DAL binds up to $10M bucks from their cap in retained salaries in the long-term. That is simply not sustainable.

If we decide to retool, we need to start it this deadline and capitalize on the value of rentals such as Klingberg, Pavelski and Radulov.


Apologies for the bishop thing I guess I had an idea in my mind he was canadian but I still agree he waives for edmonton as it is only one year left and he gets to compete for that cup he has come so close to getting but agree to disagree we will never know for certain what he thinks.

Honestly I don't disagree with your take on this I do regret the benn and seguin trade with Calgary's cap situation moving forward but the seguin and benn trade had to happen to help with this rebuild. The 10m in dead cap for dallas will hurt those couple last years but they will have lot's of cap room for the first 3 years of the contracts being retained so it won't harm too much on the price of moving them. Lindell can be paired with dobson who is an elite puck moving d-man and the top 4 of pulock,pelech,dobson and lindell would be absolutely insane and tear up in the playoffs. The haul might be a bit much but young d-man have been going up so much with the seth jones trade that went down.

Honestly everything you said there was completelty valid and I see your point of view on it even thought I might respectfully disagree on some takes and I completely agree with the flames trade not being good for them but that trade had to happen for this gm to work so even though it's not good its fun to think about
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:48 p.m.
#13
Joined: Nov. 2020
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 845
As an islander fan i wouldnt do this. Dont get me wrong i like lindell, and think he would make a good partner for dobson but i wouldnt do it at this price at all. Salo looks really good and will probably be the better player in 2-3 years. Now add the fact that lindell does have a big contract and thats gonna take some value away. I would probably want to base a potential lindell deal around bolduc.
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:49 p.m.
#14
GOAT Uniform
Joined: Mar. 2018
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 1,461
- Lindell is overrated (but better this year) & is heavily reliant on his Defensive partner for any kind of puck movement. There's a reason Klingberg handles the puck nearly every time they are on the ice together
- Suter isn't going anywhere. Would love for him to be gone, but no GM (outside of Jim Nill) brings on a 36-year old for 4 years with a full NMC attached to his contract
- Benn & Seguin hit against the cap too much for any team to trade for them, especially in this dead cap era we're slowly working our way out of.
- Bishop doesn't waive for Edmonton

With guys like Hintz, Heiskanen, Gurianov, Robertson, Harley, Oettinger, etc., Dallas doesn't need a "rebuild." Retooling by trading guys like Pavelski, Radulov, Holtby, and even Klingberg (extremely hesitant to trade Klingberg) is more than enough, given where this team stands with the young core they have in place.
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:51 p.m.
#15
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: NoVaSpartan
Losing a decent prospect in Johnson as well as a 3rd rounder is for me too steep of a price for a 3rd line D that isn't a big need. Suter has been good this year, but so has Van Riemsdyk. He hasn't had the same points production, but has been quite solid defensively and is especially great as he can play other side so if lines get messed up he can plug and play anywhere on D. His versatility and good play this year has earned him a regular role for now, and Suter's leadership isn't needed and could possibly hurt in a locker room with established leaders already, such as Ovi and Oshie.

Apologies for the johnson one I was not aware of how good he was for a 3rd round pick the caps got a steal in him. I have changed the propect to Hugo Has who is definitely more reasonable of a prospect to send the other way. Van riedsmyk most likely won't keep his play up unfortunately as from how his career has gone I don't see him maintaining a top 4 role. Suter can take a smaller leadership position for sure he has never really been an out spoken personality and is more of a silent leader in the room which definitely doesn't clash with ovi and oshie who are both loud out spoken leaders which is great for the caps.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:53 p.m.
#16
NYI
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 849
Pretty sure NYI would say yes.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:58 p.m.
#17
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: CD282
Bishop had a .920 save percentage in 2019-20. Koskinen was .917 the same year playing behind a FAR worse defense. Bishop has less than zero value right now, he's been out for nearly 2 years.

You worry about Mike Smith's injury and then propose Bishop as a solution? Did I just read that?


Bishop has bounced back before and is 5 years younger than smtih. Bishop is also cleared to play again this year and this trade would only go down if he stays consistent as he was just moved off long term IR. Bishop was also insane in the bubble playoffs and if he can do that for edmonton that would be huge. Also the worry isn't about smith being bad it's about him retiring( i should have said that apologies for being confusing) Bishop is also only a one year deal so he won't be a long term issue if things go wrong(this would lower his value so I would replace the second for a third or a fourth.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 1:59 p.m.
#18
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: Islesforthecup
As an islander fan i wouldnt do this. Dont get me wrong i like lindell, and think he would make a good partner for dobson but i wouldnt do it at this price at all. Salo looks really good and will probably be the better player in 2-3 years. Now add the fact that lindell does have a big contract and thats gonna take some value away. I would probably want to base a potential lindell deal around bolduc.


How about sebastian ahos value?
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:04 p.m.
#19
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: TheMooterus
- Lindell is overrated (but better this year) & is heavily reliant on his Defensive partner for any kind of puck movement. There's a reason Klingberg handles the puck nearly every time they are on the ice together
- Suter isn't going anywhere. Would love for him to be gone, but no GM (outside of Jim Nill) brings on a 36-year old for 4 years with a full NMC attached to his contract
- Benn & Seguin hit against the cap too much for any team to trade for them, especially in this dead cap era we're slowly working our way out of.
- Bishop doesn't waive for Edmonton

With guys like Hintz, Heiskanen, Gurianov, Robertson, Harley, Oettinger, etc., Dallas doesn't need a "rebuild." Retooling by trading guys like Pavelski, Radulov, Holtby, and even Klingberg (extremely hesitant to trade Klingberg) is more than enough, given where this team stands with the young core they have in place.


Dobson is a great puck mover which would make him a great partner for lindell which might interest the islanders more in this trade. But yes realistically dallas does need a retooling not a rebuild but again this site is just for fun so this is a hypothetical of what a rebuild could possibly shape up like.

Bishop only has to stay in Edmonton for one year he doesn't even have to move his life over to edmonton and has a great chance for a cup there (but again we will never know for certain if he will waive or not us neither of us know what he thinks)

If retained enough suter could possibly be moved to a contending team somewhere looking for a solid in his own zone top 6 d-man. Again suters play style isn't reliant on age he has never been extremely fast or ahtletic so he most likely won't fall off a cliff unless a big injury happens. If retained a cotending team could be interested in him for cheap and he could possibly reitire before the contract runs up.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:07 p.m.
#20
NYI
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 849
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
How about sebastian ahos value?


It's pretty low. He hasn't looked good but Trotz has barely played him so he hasn't been able to get into a groove.
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Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:09 p.m.
#21
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: slapshot723
It's pretty low. He hasn't looked good but Trotz has barely played him so he hasn't been able to get into a groove.


If salo is too much I could definitely see him being a replacement instead for that move
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:12 p.m.
#22
NYI
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 849
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
If salo is too much I could definitely see him being a replacement instead for that move


If we move Salo to Aho this is a no-brainer for NYI.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:12 p.m.
#23
Joined: Nov. 2020
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 845
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
How about sebastian ahos value?


A mid-late pick. Hes just a throw in at this point.
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:38 p.m.
#24
Thread Starter
Drshnuckels
Joined: Nov. 2018
Posts: 974
Likes: 331
Quoting: Islesforthecup
A mid-late pick. Hes just a throw in at this point.


Quoting: slapshot723
If we move Salo to Aho this is a no-brainer for NYI.


Yeah maybe the stars will still want salo but if the isles aren't fans of them could take on clutterbucks deal if he holds negative value?
Nov. 18, 2021 at 2:41 p.m.
#25
NYI
Joined: Jun. 2016
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 849
Quoting: Drshnuckels91
Yeah maybe the stars will still want salo but if the isles aren't fans of them could take on clutterbucks deal if he holds negative value?


They're definitely not trading Clutterbuck, and he's likely to come back at a discount as a free agent. The organization loves the identity line too much to let him go.
 
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