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Holtz or playoffs gotta choose not both

Created by: Opie
Team: 2021-22 New Jersey Devils
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 20, 2021
Published: Nov. 20, 2021
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This has to stop.

If you want to give Holtz credit for the assist; so be it, but getting pinned on the wall on the first goal, with little to no fight / urgency, no good. However, lost in space and out of position on the third; AHL quality. He's not ready. Game in, game out, he's not ready for this level. Is this a John Maclean, wait it out and take loses until he figures it out scenario or can they please, for the love of everything holy, send him down & coach him up ... cant watch this kid anymore.
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Nov. 21, 2021 at 12:07 a.m.
#1
Speak of the Devil
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He's not ready. I hate to say it. If you look at the 3rd Tampa goal (Hedman's goal), Holtz was out of position which led to Hedman getting a clear shot. His shot is amazing but he still needs to improve all around.

Devils play 6 more games until December 4th (Hughes' reevaluation). Play Holtz 3 of those games and if he doesn't make an impact, send him down to the undefeated Comets

Another idea is to send him down right now and use those 3 games when Hughes gets back so we can see how he plays with Jack

Regardless, I think he ends up in the NHL sooner than later

Lines when Holtz gets sent down
37-13-90
11-18-63
59-70-17
16-20-49

Once 86 comes back, switch 70 for 86 and 49 for 70
Nov. 21, 2021 at 12:28 a.m.
#2
Thread Starter
Opie
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Quoting: Devil1122
He's not ready. I hate to say it. If you look at the 3rd Tampa goal (Hedman's goal), Holtz was out of position which led to Hedman getting a clear shot. His shot is amazing but he still needs to improve all around.

Devils play 6 more games until December 4th (Hughes' reevaluation). Play Holtz 3 of those games and if he doesn't make an impact, send him down to the undefeated Comets

Another idea is to send him down right now and use those 3 games when Hughes gets back so we can see how he plays with Jack

Regardless, I think he ends up in the NHL sooner than later

Lines when Holtz gets sent down
37-13-90
11-18-63
59-70-17
16-20-49

Once 86 comes back, switch 70 for 86 and 49 for 70


He was out of position on that first goal too ... just GAVE UP on the play once he was pinned on the boards. NHL quality winger fights through that with effort & at least tries to get a stick out there. Shooter had even more room than Hedman on the third goal there

Both lapses absolutely egregious
Devil liked this.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 3:30 a.m.
#3
do not Devil my ass
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Quoting: Opie
He was out of position on that first goal too ... just GAVE UP on the play once he was pinned on the boards. NHL quality winger fights through that with effort & at least tries to get a stick out there. Shooter had even more room than Hedman on the third goal there

Both lapses absolutely egregious


Just wanna point out that the kid is only 19. Even for first round picks it's unlikely that they can hang with the tempo of the NHL while still in their teens.
I think management miscalculated his timeline here, seeing Mercer lighting it up thinking that Alex'd do the same.
Feel like you're being a bit harsh on him.

Quoting: Devil1122
He's not ready. I hate to say it. If you look at the 3rd Tampa goal (Hedman's goal), Holtz was out of position which led to Hedman getting a clear shot. His shot is amazing but he still needs to improve all around.

Devils play 6 more games until December 4th (Hughes' reevaluation). Play Holtz 3 of those games and if he doesn't make an impact, send him down to the undefeated Comets

Another idea is to send him down right now and use those 3 games when Hughes gets back so we can see how he plays with Jack

Regardless, I think he ends up in the NHL sooner than later

Lines when Holtz gets sent down
37-13-90
11-18-63
59-70-17
16-20-49

Once 86 comes back, switch 70 for 86 and 49 for 70


Would've been better if Holtz was put in a position to succeed for his first outings in the NHL rather than being counted on to mitigate the injuries we currently have at forward - Hughes, Wood, Boqvist, Thompson. He really should've been kept in Utica for at least Hughes to return.

And while I agree that it'd be preferable to have him sent down for the remainder of the season, there could be an issue for Wednesday's game against the Wild, given the injuries.
Other than calling up Studenic, if Boqvist or Thompson aren't fit for Wednesday I don't really see any other option than playing Holtz.
Unless we want to be graced with the talents of Geertsen again, I for one am good in that department.
NHLfan10506 liked this.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 9:48 a.m.
#4
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Opie
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Quoting: PaulieWalnuts
Just wanna point out that the kid is only 19. Even for first round picks it's unlikely that they can hang with the tempo of the NHL while still in their teens.
I think management miscalculated his timeline here, seeing Mercer lighting it up thinking that Alex'd do the same.
Feel like you're being a bit harsh on him.



Would've been better if Holtz was put in a position to succeed for his first outings in the NHL rather than being counted on to mitigate the injuries we currently have at forward - Hughes, Wood, Boqvist, Thompson. He really should've been kept in Utica for at least Hughes to return.

And while I agree that it'd be preferable to have him sent down for the remainder of the season, there could be an issue for Wednesday's game against the Wild, given the injuries.
Other than calling up Studenic, if Boqvist or Thompson aren't fit for Wednesday I don't really see any other option than playing Holtz.
Unless we want to be graced with the talents of Geertsen again, I for one am good in that department.


Sure, I understand he's 19. Very few 19 year olds are ready for this level & his lack of awareness and lapses in defensive zone are to be expected. Hopefully Ruff and Company coach him up and get his head on straight & keep his confidence from caving.

My post was really about the Devils management keeping the kid up at this time. It seems a disservice to both Holtz and the team. If they want to make the playoffs, he needs to go back down; if they prefer to develop him in NHL, then the team will suffer some bad goals against. Your point about injuries is a good one, but the quicker he gets back to Utica, the better for all involved imo.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 1:01 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Devil1122
He's not ready. I hate to say it. If you look at the 3rd Tampa goal (Hedman's goal), Holtz was out of position which led to Hedman getting a clear shot. His shot is amazing but he still needs to improve all around.

Devils play 6 more games until December 4th (Hughes' reevaluation). Play Holtz 3 of those games and if he doesn't make an impact, send him down to the undefeated Comets

Another idea is to send him down right now and use those 3 games when Hughes gets back so we can see how he plays with Jack

Regardless, I think he ends up in the NHL sooner than later

Lines when Holtz gets sent down
37-13-90
11-18-63
59-70-17
16-20-49

Once 86 comes back, switch 70 for 86 and 49 for 70


3 games isn't worth it. Show confidence in him and roll him out every night...or send him to Utica for the season. The stress of thinking you may be cut anyday will hurt his development. And with Tyce Thompson now hurt, he is probably our best available option anyway.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 1:04 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: PaulieWalnuts
Just wanna point out that the kid is only 19. Even for first round picks it's unlikely that they can hang with the tempo of the NHL while still in their teens.
I think management miscalculated his timeline here, seeing Mercer lighting it up thinking that Alex'd do the same.
Feel like you're being a bit harsh on him.



Would've been better if Holtz was put in a position to succeed for his first outings in the NHL rather than being counted on to mitigate the injuries we currently have at forward - Hughes, Wood, Boqvist, Thompson. He really should've been kept in Utica for at least Hughes to return.

And while I agree that it'd be preferable to have him sent down for the remainder of the season, there could be an issue for Wednesday's game against the Wild, given the injuries.
Other than calling up Studenic, if Boqvist or Thompson aren't fit for Wednesday I don't really see any other option than playing Holtz.
Unless we want to be graced with the talents of Geertsen again, I for one am good in that department.


Paulie, not sure if you read Athletic or not, but looks like you got a call out this week https://theathletic.com/2964498/2021/11/19/devils-mailbag-dawson-mercer-for-calder-who-plays-with-jack-hughes-who-will-be-the-leading-scorer/ lol

What should the team do with the Ty Smith and Damon Severson pairing? They have been wildly inconsistent not to mention Ty battling through the “sophomore slump” and no training camp. Damon needs to be better! — Ryan D.


Let’s start with a simple premise: Damon Severson is a good NHL defenseman. Now, a not insignificant portion of the Devils fan base would read that statement and immediately roll their eyes or make a hand gesture similar to when Paulie Walnuts doesn’t get what he wants. That is, however, true.

Now, is Severson playing as well as he could, or should, to start the 2021-22 season? Nope. But he’s also not been as bad as the people who are naturally predisposed to dislike his play would suggest. And while a lot of people have been giving Ty Smith something of a pass for not having a training camp because of an injury … Severson missed almost exactly the same amount of time, and had an injury that could/would affect his bread-and-butter NHL skill, his skating ability.

But Severson is older than Smith and should be held to a higher standard of play at this point in his career. He is a defenseman who handles the puck a lot, so there are more chances for him to make the Big Mistake. And everyone in the building and watching on TV can see the Big Mistake. Severson trying to backhand the puck out of danger and putting it right on Adam Fox’s stick was a Big Mistake, but at least two and maybe three other Devils players on the ice at the time also made a mistake on that play.

Sidenote: The ice at Madison Square Garden was awful. Multiple players noticed that guys were falling/slipping/wobbling more than usual, even though they go to MSG expecting bad ice. One thing Severson noted was not a skating thing … the ice was slowing pucks down. So when a player saw it coming toward him, his mind might calculate how long it was going to take to get there and instinctually make a decision. But then the puck arrived later than expected and that becomes a problem in a game normally played at lightning-quick speeds. He didn’t blame the ice for the Fox goal — that was more of a general observation.

Back to Severson: The Devils have more scoring chances than the other team when he’s on the ice at five-on-five, but the other team has outscored New Jersey 9-5. Is that all because of mistakes by Severson or Smith? Probably not, but some of their gaffes, particularly a couple by Smith and the Fox play at MSG, have led directly to goals against.

Severson’s underlying numbers are not as good as they’ve been, but they’re also not bad. Smith’s … are not good, particularly a sub-40 percent expected goals percentage. But when he plays with Severson, all of the numbers are a little better (the xGF% without Severson is 35.04 percent).

So, should the Devils break them up? One issue is the other two pairings are clicking quite well. Dougie Hamilton and Ryan Graves have, with a couple brief exceptions, been cooking all season. And the coaching staff/management team really likes the Jonas Siegenthaler and P.K. Subban connection.

That doesn’t leave a lot of options. One is giving Smith some time with Hamilton, who is great regardless of who’s on the ice with him. Severson’s underlying numbers with Graves are pretty similar to his overall work, and the goals are 3-3 in 62:25 of ice time (it’s 5-1 bad guys in 102:10 with Smith).

Another is patience, because the thing Severson and Smith need most is probably time — for both of them, Smith maybe more than Severson, to feel like missing camp isn’t an issue anymore and maybe most of all for Jack Hughes to return.

We can talk about the forwards who might miss Hughes, but Severson and Smith might miss him most of all. The Devils have already laid out a pretty simple plan with their defense pairings, and it includes Smith-Severson getting a lot of advantageous matchups/zone starts. When Hughes comes back, he’s probably going to play with them a lot, and everything might look different if they start dominating those matchups again.
Tintin liked this.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 3:16 p.m.
#7
do not Devil my ass
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Paulie, not sure if you read Athletic or not, but looks like you got a call out this week


Chrissy, that googootz. ya didn't think I haven't had him kicking up to me ever since he started covering the team? get outta here

(yes I do read the Athletic, haven't gotten around to his latest mailbag yet tho)
Nov. 21, 2021 at 10:36 p.m.
#8
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: PaulieWalnuts
Just wanna point out that the kid is only 19. Even for first round picks it's unlikely that they can hang with the tempo of the NHL while still in their teens.
I think management miscalculated his timeline here, seeing Mercer lighting it up thinking that Alex'd do the same.
Feel like you're being a bit harsh on him.



Would've been better if Holtz was put in a position to succeed for his first outings in the NHL rather than being counted on to mitigate the injuries we currently have at forward - Hughes, Wood, Boqvist, Thompson. He really should've been kept in Utica for at least Hughes to return.

And while I agree that it'd be preferable to have him sent down for the remainder of the season, there could be an issue for Wednesday's game against the Wild, given the injuries.
Other than calling up Studenic, if Boqvist or Thompson aren't fit for Wednesday I don't really see any other option than playing Holtz.
Unless we want to be graced with the talents of Geertsen again, I for one am good in that department.


Agree with that
They should have kept him on the top line with Nico and Zacha
Depending on Boqvist's injury, I could see them calling up Studenic
Nov. 21, 2021 at 10:37 p.m.
#9
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
3 games isn't worth it. Show confidence in him and roll him out every night...or send him to Utica for the season. The stress of thinking you may be cut anyday will hurt his development. And with Tyce Thompson now hurt, he is probably our best available option anyway.


Send him down then (depending on Boqvist's status)
Nov. 21, 2021 at 10:40 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Devil1122
Send him down then (depending on Boqvist's status)


Utica may not have a spot for him either, the way they’re playing.
Nov. 21, 2021 at 10:41 p.m.
#11
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Utica may not have a spot for him either, the way they’re playing.


Holtz would be the best player on the team
They can definitely fit him in
Another option could be sending him to Sweden to play with Eklund, but I rather him stay in NA
 
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