Flames accept IMO

Picks are going the wrong way in the Preds proposal.

Not sure if you’re a troll or Homer lol. Borowiecki is a 6/7th dman and Dumo is a 2/3 Dman. The pens would be insane to take that much of a downgrade for such little return lol.
All of these trades are pretty underwhelming tbh.

Sorry, but even if Dumoulin was still a 2nd pairing level player for the Pens (he's been hot garbage this season), he wouldn't be more than 3rd pair behind Josi and Ekholm. He makes more than twice what Borowiecki makes, and NSH would be stuck with him for an extra year. I don't like Borowiecki getting into the lineup as often as he does, but he's a fearsome face-puncher and supposed to be well liked in the lockeroom. It'd be preferable to have a more skilled player in his spot, but he's not a completely useless anchor, NSH is desperate enough to overpay to replace. Especially not for someone who's not currently a clear upgrade, and comes with a worse contract.

http://naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&p1=8475208&p2=8474697&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single



http://naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=all&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&p1=8475208&p2=8474697&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

If Dumo has been “hot garbage” this season then Borowiecki has been 100x worse than that. Dumos stats are significantly better than Boro’s. It’s really not even that close either. I mean Dumo has only played 2 more games than Boro yet has almost twice as many minutes played. He plays in the toughest of situations as he plays with a d partner that takes more risks than he should and a lot of goals against that pair are on Letang. Last game for example Letang takes a misstep and takes a bad angle on hyman leading to the 1st goal. But Dumo made several great plays to knock pucks off the sticks of potential breakaways and odd man rushes.
It really doesn’t matter where Nashville would put him. Even if it is the 3rd pair, it massively upgrades it and if Nashville is in position for a playoff run, they’d be dumb not to do whatever to put themselves in a position to take a serious run. And regardless of your insanely wrong opinion, Dumo is a massive upgrade to Boro.

Dumoulin plays in the toughest situations? Your own stats show he starts in the offensive zone much more than Borowiecki. Yes, I know Letang is a shadow of his former self too, but are you trying to argue he's a worse partner than Boro's usual sidekick - Matt Benning?

Dumoulin used to be solid, but he's been making so many bad mistakes this season. I don't know if he's still suffering from covid after-effects, but something's wrong with him. Every time I watch the Pens he's making poor decisions on the ice. Like I said above he'd still be behind Josi and Ekholm even at his best, but with what I've seen from him this year he wouldn't be guaranteed a spot on NSH's roster right now.

Even if Dumoulin rediscovers his game and NSH is making a playoff push, they'd be unwise to make this move. It's too steep a price to pay to upgrade a #6 defenseman. That's the kind of deadline deal a team pays a 4th for a vet UFA for. Not three picks and a player for someone they're stuck paying $4M all next year. Especially not when LD is probably NSH's deepest position when it comes to NHL ready prospects. Having Dumoulin tying up that sheltered 3rd pair spot just jams NSH up from a prospect development perspective in 22-23.

Trying to cherry pick stats and putting words in the others mouth is a terrible way to try and prove your point. In no way did I ever say Letang was worse than Benning nor did I ever mention that Letang was even bad. Simply that he takes more risks than he should. He’s done that his whole career. It doesn’t make him terrible. Most years the good outweighs the bad so much that he is still elite. However this year he hasn’t found the same level of success as he usually does. Secondly, Dumo has more offensive zone starts because he has almost twice as many minutes played lol. It’s common sense. Dumo also has way more defensive zone starts too. Dumo plays on the best pk in the league and is a big part of it. His pk stats are way better than Boro’s too.

Well you haven’t watched too much of the pens (and that’s clearly obvious). And it takes massive homerism to claim that Boro/Benning would be better than Dumo lol.

Are those prospects ready now? Obviously not if you’re playing Boro and Benning. Let’s not pretend you can’t trade Dumo next year if you don’t want to keep him. People act like players don’t get traded more than once on here and it’s kind of sad cause with how much it happens, you’d think people would start to realize it by now lol. Even if you want to argue it’s a price Nashville shouldn’t/couldn’t pay the price because they’d only use him as a bottom pair defenseman doesn’t make it an overpay. But it’s a stupid proposition as a gm to say “well we don’t want to upgrade the bottom pair defense for a cup run because we don’t want to pay a top 4 d price for a top 4 d that we’d use to upgrade the 3rd d pair.” Pretty terrible message to send to the fans to show them you don’t care about winning and pretty dumb of fans to accept that messaging lol

Man, there's a lot to unpack here. You're projecting so much, and accusing me of everything that you're doing in this thread. I don't know where to begin. Where have I cherry picked stats (Dumoulin does start a higher % of his shifts in the offensive zone than Borowiecki) or said that Benning is better than Letang (illustrating the fallacy of your point isn't the same as making a declarative statement)?

Suffice to say, we definitely don't agree on the value of some of the players mentioned here. I understand that given what PIT has to work with on their backend, Dumoulin has more value to them than he would most other teams. Likewise, I'm sure you can see that overpaying for a $4M for a guy who'd be a #5 defenseman at best (if he fixes his game) on a team with better defensemen isn't ideal. It's not like he's the one piece NSH needs to vault them into top contender tier. That shouldn't even be NSH's goal this season. They've just started on a youth movement, and giving up picks for a past his prime defensemen runs completely counter to that.

No you didn't say Letang is bad, and he really isn't quite yet. You did say he's elite though. That's a bit of a stretch. He was in that tier just below the best in the league for a large part of his career, which is admirable. But elite? That one time he was a Norris finalist nine years ago doesn't mean he was ever elite. He'll go down as one of PIT's best defensemen of all time (Coffey and Carlyle are the only better ones coming to mind), but league wide that's not saying much. PIT has had less impressive defensemen over their 50+ years than NSH has had forwards in their time.