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Carey Price 50 pct Retained

Created by: Shanesaw9
Team: 2021-22 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 1, 2022
Published: Jan. 1, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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What would you be willing to trade for Carey Price at 50% retained? There was an Athletic article a while back which had feedback from pro scouts, this was there thoughts on Price:

“For sure there’s a market for him, but it would be quite the gamble,” said Scout No. 2. “But yes, there’s a market, that’s an automatic. There are teams who think they are a goalie away from being able to really do something … It might happen, but Price will need to come back and play like he did in the playoffs. That’s a big ‘if’ because if you look at his last three or four seasons, that hasn’t been the case.”

Carey Price is the single biggest reason why the Canadiens should hope the NHL goes to the Olympics. If Price is able to return in time, he could use Beijing to prove to the hockey world what he can offer another team. Because the interest in him is still there.

“When you look around the league, in terms of true No. 1 goalies, there are fewer than 15 of them,” said Scout No. 3. “Everyone uses a committee and hopes that one of them will have a great season … Bringing in a guy like that, with a reputation for never crumbling under the pressure, has a positive impact on a team. But again, it would have to work with the salary cap.”

The Canadiens need to find a team with Stanley Cup aspirations willing to make the investment and with the necessary salary-cap space required, which is a difficult combination to find among the top teams. That reality limits the market considerably.

“With what he’s shown in the playoffs, he should have two or three more years of solid hockey left in him, assuming he can recover from his injury and his off-ice issues are settled,” said Scout No. 3. “I think Colorado would be a good fit for him. Darcy Kuemper has the reputation who gets hurt a lot, and it’s the same thing this year.”

Scout No. 5 figures there might be two or three teams who could be interested.

“He has a lot of value for certain teams, but the problem is absorbing that contract under the cap for four years,” he said. “What is he worth? As far as I’m concerned, a first-round pick and a prospect, for sure. That’s a minimum.”

We believe the Canadiens would prefer to take back a bad contract or two as opposed to eating significant money for several years. The value of the draft picks coming back would depend on the bad contract or contracts that would come with those picks.

His full no-movement clause gives Price all the leverage, except for one thing: just because he accepts being moved, or even asks for it, doesn’t mean it will happen. There are so few teams who can afford to add Price that he needs to accept the possibility he will be stuck in Montreal for the duration of his deal.

Going off of the comments for the pro scouts, I've put together a trade - I think the main issue for debate is how much value does Kuemper still carry? Thoughts? Other offers / ideas?
Trades
MTL
  1. Barron, Justin
  2. Kuemper, Darcy
  3. 2023 1st round pick (COL)
COL
  1. Price, Carey ($5,250,000 retained)
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the ANA
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the STL
2023
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2024
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
24$81,500,000$72,880,060$597,561$1,687,500$8,619,940
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$537,500$538K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$825,000$825,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$637,500$638K)
LD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$3,500,000$3,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Colorado Avalanche
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$761,250$761,250
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,857,143$7,857,143
RD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,125,000$2,125,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,343,750$2,343,750
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,150,000$1,150,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$848,333$848,333 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$838,333$838,333 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
C
UFA - 2

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Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:45 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
I don't think you understand what a pro scout is. A pro scout is someone who evaluates players in the NHL. These aren't random scouts, these are pro scouts... by definition, I have no idea why you are even trying to dispute this fact.

"Five pro scouts who have watched the Canadiens extensively this season agreed to anonymously share their perception of some of those players with The Athletic and what their value on the market might represent."

These are just a few GM's who started as scouts:
- Bergevin
- Dorion
- Hextall
- Dubas
- Benning
- McClellan

That's at least 6 of the 16 eastern conference GM's this season. So in this sample at least 37.5% of GM's started as scouts. Your claim that scouts are totally dissociated from trade evaluations is false - how could it not be when almost half of the GM's in the league were once scouts? Yes they are not the GM's making the final call, but their opinions should still be respected. I for one would put more stock into their evaluations than anyone else's on this site.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.allaboutthejersey.com/platform/amp/2021/9/6/22656442/where-did-32-nhl-general-managers-come-from-part-2-success-before-management


Are you having compressions issues, they are Random Pro Scouts...that is what is RANDOM, they are just 5 dudes they decided to ask what do you think Price would get in a trade. I didnt think I had to spell it out that literal for you.

What does listing GMs who used to be scouts have anything to do with pro scouts never being involved in Trade talks. That is the most irrelevant thing you could post to try to make a point here. Show me 1 example that a Pro Scout, has that much say in a front office that they are negotiating trade value.

Once again I cant believe I had to explain this to you so literally. so lets go back to your comment...you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion" ....do you not see the irony here once again
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:46 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
I really do love it when a publication that relies on subscriptions says something with no named sources past "pro scouts" that is obviously clickbait and people eat it hook line and sinker.
And the "current version of price" cherry picked from one playoffs sandwiched between years of downright bad play and then not playing for 6 months due to health issues is held up like hes 23 years old again.


The only way they can interview the scouts is if they grant them anonymity, that's obvious isn't it?
Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:46 p.m.
#28
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Price sucks nobody wants him unless the canadiens take back large amounts of salary and big cap dumps.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:49 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: ricochetii
I still think Edmonton is the team that should be trading for Price. With the caveat that we see he's healthy and ready to go first.
At 50% retained, something like . The pick could even be conditional on Edmonton's playoff success.
They're currently running a 39 year old and a 33 year old. It's not like they would be getting older in the crease. Price and Smith would only come in ~$1M more than they are paying for goaltending now. That could be a hell of a duo with their workload being reduced and Skinner gaining experience behind them, which would be good for his development. Price also has the ability to backstop a team through the playoffs and win games, which is what Edmonton's focus should be.

Colorado makes less sense because they picked their guy and traded for him already. They should give him at least this season and a shot in the playoffs before deciding if they made a bad deal and should change goaltenders.


I completely agree, though I think Edmonton needs to send more salary the other way. I could see Bourgault and a 1st (like you stated), but they'll need to send Koskinen (maybe even Turris) to make the salary's work. I wouldn't even make the pick conditional, as Price is, in reality, what they really need. However, I could also see Edmonton going for Fleury instead.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:50 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
The only way they can interview the scouts is if they grant them anonymity, that's obvious isn't it?


crazy how often that is used to make hilariously bad clickbait trade values into 'legit' articles. It's just amusing as hell to me that this stuff gets jacked like gospel but stuff that doesnt fit the narrative is brushed aside.
Anyone who looks more than an inch into Price's performance the past 3-4 years knows he isnt worth anything like what the article has said and that if a Pro scout said that he isnt very good at his job.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 12:54 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: ricochetii
I still think Edmonton is the team that should be trading for Price. With the caveat that we see he's healthy and ready to go first.
At 50% retained, something like Bourgault and a 1st isn't a lot to ask. The pick could even be conditional on Edmonton's playoff success.
They're currently running a 39 year old and a 33 year old. It's not like they would be getting older in the crease. Price and Smith would only come in ~$1M more than they are paying for goaltending now. That could be a hell of a duo with their workload being reduced and Skinner gaining experience behind them, which would be good for his development. Price also has the ability to backstop a team through the playoffs and win games, which is what Edmonton's focus should be.

Colorado makes less sense because they picked their guy and traded for him already. They should give him at least this season and a shot in the playoffs before deciding if they made a bad deal and should change goaltenders.


Avs have been interested in Kuemper starting in the 2020 offseason. Unless something catastrophic happens, there is a very good chance he is extended before the playoffs even begin. Sakic is very shrewed, he doesnt give up those assets unless he is prepared to keep the player. Like you said they are going to give him his shot and an extended time to do so.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:01 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: coga16
Are you having compressions issues, they are Random Pro Scouts...that is what is RANDOM, they are just 5 dudes they decided to ask what do you think Price would get in a trade. I didnt think I had to spell it out that literal for you.

What does listing GMs who used to be scouts have anything to do with pro scouts never being involved in Trade talks. That is the most irrelevant thing you could post to try to make a point here. Show me 1 example that a Pro Scout, has that much say in a front office that they are negotiating trade value.

Once again I cant believe I had to explain this to you so literally. so lets go back to your comment...you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion" ....do you not see the irony here once again


Gonna have to block you if you keep this up fella, I can't keep going in circles with you. For the last time:

I said: "These are anonymous pro scouts."
You said: "They are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts."

I then repeated the fact that no, these are by definition pro scouts (you just tried to dispute that fact with your quote above?). They aren't necessarily totally random either, if you read the article or quote I provided, they were selected because they have spent significant time evaluating montreal players.

Lastly, I'm not claiming that these pro scouts are responsible when it comes to trades, and I never have made that claim. What I'm saying is these are people who are hired and work for NHL organizations and they specialize in evaluating talent at the NHL level. Yes they aren't the GM's making the calls, but they've worked there way into an NHL organization because they obviously have good hockey knowledge. I listed 6 examples of Eastern conference GM's for this reason - you are insinuating that pro scouts don't know what they are talking about when it comes to making trades, yet at least 37.5% of the GM's started as scouts... so that contradicts your claim.

Let's put it this way, when you work for an NHL organization come talk to me, until then I'm gonna side with the opinion of the pro scouts on this one.

Colorado paid a 1st + a prospect for one year of Kuemper (pending an extension).

You don't think a team will pay a 1st + a prospect for 4 years of Price at $5.25M? Actually you stated in your original post that you wouldn't even give up a 1st OR a prospect for Price, so why am I even asking again?
Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:02 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: oilersfan150
Price sucks nobody wants him unless the canadiens take back large amounts of salary and big cap dumps.


"Price sucks". Probably shouldn't engage you if that's what you've got to offer but here we go:

Like retaining $5,250,000 and taking back Koskinen?
Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:06 p.m.
#34
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Edited Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:11 p.m.
Quoting: Shanesaw9
Gonna have to block you if you keep this up fella, I can't keep going in circles with you. For the last time:

I said: "These are anonymous pro scouts."
You said: "They are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts."

I then repeated the fact that no, these are by definition pro scouts (you just tried to dispute that fact with your quote above?). They aren't necessarily totally random either, if you read the article or quote I provided, they were selected because they have spent significant time evaluating montreal players.

Lastly, I'm not claiming that these pro scouts are responsible when it comes to trades, and I never have made that claim. What I'm saying is these are people who are hired and work for NHL organizations and they specialize in evaluating talent at the NHL level. Yes they aren't the GM's making the calls, but they've worked there way into an NHL organization because they obviously have good hockey knowledge. I listed 6 examples of Eastern conference GM's for this reason - you are insinuating that pro scouts don't know what they are talking about when it comes to making trades, yet at least 37.5% of the GM's started as scouts... so that contradicts your claim.

Let's put it this way, when you work for an NHL organization come talk to me, until then I'm gonna side with the opinion of the pro scouts on this one.

Colorado paid a 1st + a prospect for one year of Kuemper (pending an extension).

You don't think a team will pay a 1st + a prospect for 4 years of Price at $5.25M? Actually you stated in your original post that you wouldn't even give up a 1st OR a prospect for Price, so why am I even asking again?



No I dont think a team would trade a 1st and a prospect for 4 years of Price at 5.25m bc a team can sign a younger better goalie than Price as a UFA at that cap hit and dont have to deal with his age and rapid decline which you are 100% ignoring the facts of his track records the past 4 years of play. I would rather and other teams who would like a 1G goalie this offseason, give Kuemper 5m aav than trading for Price and all his question marks of declining play and poor health.

And you are getting stuck on the semantics of Random, I am not saying they were random scouts from different leagues, you are trying to move the goal posts and ignoring the root of the comment, they are just random pro scouts, they have 0 weight in the trade value a GM negotiates, their trade value opinion is no better than ours on this site, they are not the final ones who actually make the trade talks. I meant to type head of Pro scouting, if a typo, not OR, if that threw you off, well that is the issue there.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:16 p.m.
#35
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Quoting: coga16
No I dont think a team would trade a 1st and a prospect for 4 years of Price at 5.25m bc a team can sign a younger better goalie than Price as a UFA at that cap hit and dont have to deal with his age and rapid decline which you are 100% ignoring the facts of his track records the past 4 years of play.

And you are getting stuck on the semantics of Random, I am not saying they were random scouts from different leagues, you are trying to move the goal posts and ignoring the root of the comment, they are just random pro scouts, they have 0 weight in the trade value a GM negotiates, their trade value opinion is no better than ours on this site, they are not the final ones who actually make the trade talks. I meant to type head of Pro scouting, if a typo, not OR, if that threw you off, well that is the issue there.


Ok that is fine if we agree to disagree.

I thought it was already implied that these scouts were random, since they are anonymous after all so I misunderstood why you were calling them random scouts instead of pro scouts.

You are an avs fan, and truth be told the avs are a terrible fit for Price (I see that now) so I don't blame you for not being big on Price. That said I do see a market for him, and as @ricochetii pointed out EDM seems like a good fit.
Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:19 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
Ok that is fine if we agree to disagree.

I thought it was already implied that these scouts were random, since they are anonymous after all so I misunderstood why you were calling them random scouts instead of pro scouts.

You are an avs fan, and truth be told the avs are a terrible fit for Price (I see that now) so I don't blame you for not being big on Price. That said I do see a market for him, and as ricochetii pointed out EDM seems like a good fit.


someone will gamble on price, he has enough respect in the league that a team who wants to give him a chance, especially if he shows he is healthy and willing to be traded, a team will give him a chance.
But Avs just are not that team....there is some romantic idea of Price being traded there and being the next Patrick Roy, but its not the 90s anymore. Avs are one of the most analytic driven teams in the league. It influences every move they make, even in goaltending. Price stats one past 4 years just have not been at the level that you would want to invest 5.25m into a goalie.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 1:53 p.m.
#37
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It would be really out of character for Sakic to give up on a guy (Kuemper) he just paid a fair amount for and clearly believes in after such a short amount time. He also likes shorter contracts when there is risk involved, which there obviously is here.

From a pure roster perspective, I can see why folks think Colorado makes some sense. But when you dig deeper into tendencies, I personally think it's a pretty unlikely destination. Kuemper seems to be underrated too. He hasn't had the best start, but he has been one of the better goalies in the league over the last few years prior to this one.
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Jan. 1, 2022 at 2:10 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
"Price sucks". Probably shouldn't engage you if that's what you've got to offer but here we go:

Like retaining $5,250,000 and taking back Koskinen?


Oilers won’t be the ones trading for price, we won’t take him.
 
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