No thank you

Counter: Monahan + 1st + 2nd for Toffoli and Dvorak

Easy no from the Rangers

Why do you value Allen at a 2nd? Heres some recent G trades:

Allen +7th for 3rd+7th
Fleury for Hakkarainen
Vladar for 3rd
Nedeljkovic for 3rd + Bernier UFA rights
Hill + 7th for 2nd + Korenar
Vanecek for 2nd

MTL got Allen for a 3rd (ignoring 7th round pick swap) after the 19-20 season where he put up a 2.15GAA and .927SV% with a +4.2GSAx. In his 2 seasons with MTL he put up a 2.68GAA and .907SV% with a +2.3GSAx in 20-21 and has a 3.15GAA and 0.901SV% with a -3.7GSAx this year. Hes gotten worse but his value has gone up?

Vanecek and Hill are the only ones who got a 2nd in return (presumably cause they are young), but Allen is 31 right now

Even looking at the UFA G market last year there are plenty of better goalies who signed for less than what Allen is making:

Raanta 2x2, +1.9GSAx
Reimer 2x2.25, +2.7GSAx
Halak 1x1.5, +3.7GSAx
Brossoit 2x2.325, +1.0GSAx
Holtby 1x2, +1.2GSAx

I honestly think this could work. Or at the very least I would consider it.

Oilers accept.

They paid a 1st + 2nd for Dvorak? So that’s basically trading Toffoli for Monahan? Why not just do that instead of overpaying for Dvorak?

Thats assuming you think Dvorak is still worth the 1st and 2nd and that the 1st will be as late as Carolina's

I think everyone missed the part where it said Not Up For Discussion.

Well, do you believe all 1st round picks are equal?? Connor McDavid was a 1st round pick and so was Logan Mailloux. Are they equal? So saying "a 1st" is relative. It really depends on WHOSE 1st.

CGY is currently not in the playoffs. Even if they squeak in this year, odds are they lose to top seeds Colorado or Vegas. Meaning the pick is no higher than 18th OV and even potentially in the 12-15 OV range if they miss the playoffs. The pick the Habs traded for Dvorak is currently the 32nd OV in the league because it will be Carolina's. Carolina is a stud team this year so the odds are they go far in the playoffs. Meaning even if they don't win the cup, the pick will be really late.

Then the next part of the equation is Monahan. If the Habs trade Mony at next years TDL with 50% retained, they should be able to get a decent return. If Mony plays well for the Habs with added play time, he could get a 1st at next years TDL in my opinion. He's better than his stats this year show. You don't score three 30 goal seasons and then forget how to score at age 27. I know Monahan is having a bad year but keep this in mind, so is all the Habs players. If you think he's worth so much less, that same logic applies to literally every Habs player this year too. Is Dvorak still worth a 1st and a 2nd after a mediocre season thus far?

So the value is wayyyyy better than it appears but you have to look deep at the details to see it.

Avs decline. No discussion needed.

Pens decline. They aren’t upgrading their LW here. It’s a lateral move at best. Drouin might be slightly better points wise, but the locker room leadership and analytically Zucker is much better than Drouin.

I was more logically asking how you were approaching this trade. Imo Habs overpaid for Dvorak (I think he was worth a 2nd + prospect). From the Habs prospective they would be getting “an identical” return for Dvorak. “ “ meaning as far as picks without knowing where the picks fall bc nobody could know that currently. So my main question is do you think TT = SM?

To be clear I would take a 1st + 2nd for Dvorak. That basically being able to erase a terrible trade imo. TT for SM seems okay to me depending on how you value SM

I get what your saying but that's not how one can look at this IMHO. Player values continually change. You can't use prior values as a sole basis. Especially when circumstances change. Evander Kane was worth a 1st at one point, is he still wort that?

I was only pointing out that you said "a 1st and 2nd rounder for Dvorak". Well the 1st and 2nd the Habs paid for him is worth much less, right now, than CGY's. So even if you think Dvorak is still worth what we paid for him, this is an oversimplification of what it actually is:

Dvorak for 2nd + 60% of Monahan
Toffolli for 1st + 40% of Monahan

To me I see it as a redo for Montreal. I do personally consider TT = to SM but Montreal does not exactly need SM vs futures. So the incentive here is they undo a trade that didnt work the way they wanted and can then flip Monahan for more value next year

That makes way more sense