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Forums/Armchair-GM

Who says no and why

Created by: Batmans_Dad
Team: 2021-22 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 19, 2022
Published: Jan. 19, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I wonder, with Montreal's dismal season, after the losses of Price, Weber, Danault, where that leaves them in their competitive window and the new GM’s talk of new directions, what it would take to pry Toffoli AND Dvorak out of there?

Toffoli is a proven scorer who shows up in playoffs and is familiar with Darryl. Dvorak, in addition to memorial cup memories with Tkachuk, his ARI ties would mean at very least Tre and Maloney (and to some extend as a divisional opponent Sutter too) would have some insight on. Both of their cap hits are incredibly manageable, with term, and have in the context of the following deal it, their addition would still allow for the flexibility to re-sign most if not all of Kylington, Mangiapane, Tkachuk and Gaudreau (Sidenote: They combined projected value for those four players, on the high side, is $27.5 mill, They will have, as it stands right now, between $29-$30 mill in space or between, $2.475 - $3.475 to sign four depth players. Tight but possible. Worst case scenario, if they can't convince those aforementioned free agents, the Flames have to explore a Dube, Backlund, Valimaki or Lucic trade in the offseason, Something I believe they should explore anyway. But I digress) Both Dvorak & Toffoli are Sutter-esque players. The Flames would immediately become a lot deeper and more dangerous/flexible up front, specifically in their two biggest needs. Arguably one of the deepest in the division/conference in my opinion anyway.

I am curious, if MON decides to embrace a rebuild and is looking re-coop a 1st rounder after their nightmare season, who says no if CGY were to offer Monahan (an established NHLer, a veteran and potential bounce-back candidate but mostly to make the money work), Pelletier, Zary (both players who are close to NHL ready and project to be solid middle six contributors and fit the MON mold) a 1st round pick and their choice of Poirer (a prospect who may be a project but has high offensive upside), a goalie prospect not named Wolf or a maybe a mid to late round draft pick. May require a little more, maybe a little less but it checks so many boxes both in the short term as well as the long term for both clubs that I would argue it worth it. And, in my opinion, incumbent on CGY to make it worth it for MON to consider it.

Thoughts?
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$72,114,166$0$15,000$9,385,834
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$800,000$800,000
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$750,000$750,000
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Jan. 19, 2022 at 9:19 p.m.
#1
v5 Minnesota GM
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Your fellow flames fans will get a bit of a kick out of this, but good trade for the Habs, they accept. Least unbiased post I've seen in a while! Toffoli Is worth a 1st, pelltier, and a 2nd. Dvorak could pass for zary and Poirier. Monahan is a throw in for cap relief, so overall pretty good value. 👍
Jan. 19, 2022 at 9:27 p.m.
#2
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It might be a slight overpay (like you probably don't need the 3rd) but I think both sides would be happy with this deal
Jan. 19, 2022 at 9:30 p.m.
#3
KFTW
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Quoting: Campabee
It might be a slight overpay (like you probably don't need the 3rd) but I think both sides would be happy with this deal


U sure? If Calgary is giving up all this. I’m sure they’d be able to get Chychrun and more. Like I feel giving up both Pelletier and Zary should get them a better player than either of these 2
Jan. 19, 2022 at 9:41 p.m.
#4
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Flames. Easily. Neither of those players are worth moving Pelletier (and Zary) for. That is a massive overpay
Jan. 19, 2022 at 9:45 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Campabee
It might be a slight overpay (like you probably don't need the 3rd) but I think both sides would be happy with this deal


Did Dvorak go up in value since his last trade? Monahan = Toffoli, Dvorak maybe still = 1st + Poirier. Calgary is just casually adding 2 blue chip prospects out of the kindness of their hearts?
Jan. 19, 2022 at 10:15 p.m.
#6
Go Habs Go
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Start with moving Monahan somewhere else would be my recommendation. He has no value to Montreal. He'll have one poor season here and then be gone.

Assuming rebuild ...

I'd be willing to move Toffoli for Zary and a 2nd. You'd only need to add if someone outbids that offer.

I do not think the Habs will be inclined to move Dvorak just yet. Even if we added Zary and drafted Wright, the center position wouldn't be secure for a couple of years.

Personally no interest in Pelletier or Poirier. We have our quota of small players and LHD.
Jan. 19, 2022 at 10:24 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Did Dvorak go up in value since his last trade? Monahan = Toffoli, Dvorak maybe still = 1st + Poirier. Calgary is just casually adding 2 blue chip prospects out of the kindness of their hearts?


Monahan = negative value for MTL
Dvorak + Toffoli vs Pelletier + Zary + 1st RD pick and call it a day. You know a lot of young players had amazing AHL year ? You are acting like Pelletier will be a top 6 lock
Jan. 19, 2022 at 10:34 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: GMs
Monahan = negative value for MTL
Dvorak + Toffoli vs Pelletier + Zary + 1st RD pick and call it a day. You know a lot of young players had amazing AHL year ? You are acting like Pelletier will be a top 6 lock


That trade is awful for the Flames. Pelletier will very likely be a top 6 lock yes.
Jan. 20, 2022 at 8:00 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Did Dvorak go up in value since his last trade? Monahan = Toffoli, Dvorak maybe still = 1st + Poirier. Calgary is just casually adding 2 blue chip prospects out of the kindness of their hearts?


It's an overpay for the flames sure. But Toffoli > Monahan
Jan. 20, 2022 at 1:56 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
That trade is awful for the Flames. Pelletier will very likely be a top 6 lock yes.


In your mentality (I think I got it right), you are not trading a prospect who have top 6 potential for an established top 6 player. You want to trade prospect with top 9 potential + a pick vs an established top 6 player. It’s not how it works tho
Jan. 20, 2022 at 2:12 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: GMs
In your mentality (I think I got it right), you are not trading a prospect who have top 6 potential for an established top 6 player. You want to trade prospect with top 9 potential + a pick vs an established top 6 player. It’s not how it works tho


Is it though? Tell me right now that Toffoli has more value than Caufield then. Because Pelletier is one of the best players in the AHL and currently has similar value to Caufield
Jan. 20, 2022 at 6:23 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Is it though? Tell me right now that Toffoli has more value than Caufield then. Because Pelletier is one of the best players in the AHL and currently has similar value to Caufield


No he doesn’t lmao but all good
Jan. 20, 2022 at 6:32 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: GMs
No he doesn’t lmao but all good


I mean I wouldn't trade Pelletier for Caufield 1 for 1 so I would say they are at least similar caliber prospects at this point
Jan. 20, 2022 at 9:24 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I mean I wouldn't trade Pelletier for Caufield 1 for 1 so I would say they are at least similar caliber prospects at this point


I wouldn’t trade Lehkonen for Lindholm 1 for 1 I would say they are the same caliber
Jan. 20, 2022 at 10:05 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: GMs
I wouldn’t trade Lehkonen for Lindholm 1 for 1 I would say they are the same caliber


That was the most moronic comparison you could have made. If you can't see how Pelletier is a top tier prospect at this point then thats on you. Quit basing off of draft position and look at results. Both players are in their D+3 season now and Pelletier is very clearly dominant in the AHL
 
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