Forums/Armchair-GM

Any Leafs Fan Who Wouldnt Want This Is Clueless

Created by: DougieGilmour
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 21, 2022
Published: Jan. 21, 2022
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Pens and Caps fans would be insane to say yes. I’m just showing our clueless fanboys how overrated our stars are
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Ovechkin, Alex
  2. Wilson, Tom
WSH
  1. Marner, Mitchell
  2. Kerfoot, Alexander
  3. Holl, Justin
2.
TOR
  1. Crosby, Sidney
  2. Zucker, Jason
PIT
  1. Matthews, Auston ($1,000,000 retained)
  2. Kase, Ondrej
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Auston Matthews: $1,000,000 (8.59%)
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
Buried
  • Travis Dermott: $375,000 ($1,500,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
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Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$81,500,000$81,356,532$0$400,000$143,468
Left WingCenterRight Wing
Logo of the WSH
Ovechkin, Alex
$9,500,000
LW
NMC NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the WSH
Wilson, Tom
$5,166,666
RW
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Bunting, Michael
$950,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Kämpf, David
$1,500,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$1,250,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Spezza, Jason
$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
$900,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
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Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Campbell, Jack
$1,650,000
G
UFA - 1
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Muzzin, Jake
$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
$863,333
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Mrázek, Petr
$3,800,000
G
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
$894,167
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Biega, Alex
$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
Logo of the TOR
Ritchie, Nick
$2,500,000 ($1,375,000)
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Clifford, Kyle
$1,000,000 ($0)
LW
UFA - 1

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Jan. 21 at 1:40 p.m.
#1
NoWah49
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ngl this team is better than what they have now. With that said, that'll only last for like 2 years max tho
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Jan. 21 at 1:40 p.m.
#2
scott sabourin
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Washington declines, easily actually. The value is there for Pittsburgh but Sid is retiring a Pen
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Jan. 21 at 1:41 p.m.
#3
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: NoWah49
ngl this team is better than what they have now. With that said, that'll only last for like 2 years max tho


If we win a cup who cares
Jan. 21 at 1:44 p.m.
#4
H.Lindholm Lover
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ah yes trade our future for two guys who are great now, but are on a decline in their career
Jan. 21 at 1:44 p.m.
#5
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: odyssey
ah yes trade our future for two guys who are great now, but are on a decline in their career


Who cares if we win a cup? That’s the whole point
Jan. 21 at 1:45 p.m.
#6
NoWah49
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
If we win a cup who cares


but that's the thing, "if". If you don't, you immediately get sent back into a rebuild
Jan. 21 at 1:45 p.m.
#7
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Leafs win the cup, then take the next 7 years rebuilding in a horrific repeat of the Brian Burke Era.

That being said, banners hang forever lol
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Jan. 21 at 1:47 p.m.
#8
H.Lindholm Lover
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
Who cares if we win a cup? That’s the whole point


okay but that trade doesn't guarantee a cup, what if they were to make these trades and win nothing?

this is all hypothetical
Jan. 21 at 1:48 p.m.
#9
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: odyssey
okay but that trade doesn't guarantee a cup, what if they were to make these trades and win nothing?

this is all hypothetical


I’ve been waiting since 1975. I’ll take my chances
Jan. 21 at 1:49 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
Who cares if we win a cup? That’s the whole point


Only 1 team of 32 win a cup in a given year and the best team usually doesn't win. You are much more likely to win a cup by being good for a long time and having many chances, not being good for 1 or 2 seasons.
Jan. 21 at 1:52 p.m.
#11
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: Byrr
Only 1 team of 32 win a cup in a given year and the best team usually doesn't win. You are much more likely to win a cup by being good for a long time and having many chances, not being good for 1 or 2 seasons.


If our stars had won a playoff series I’d agree with you
Jan. 21 at 1:55 p.m.
#12
H.Lindholm Lover
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
I’ve been waiting since 1975. I’ll take my chances


your chances are better with what they got, crosbys clock is ticking, ovis clock is ticking aswell, but its moving slower than you might think,
this years team we have is more built for a playoff run, bigger guys, tougher guys at that, the team as a whole seems to be better disciplined. without a doubt that team you made is better right now, but next year, the team we have right now would be better.
i like the turn we took in the off season, i like the way the buds are playing (besides the last two games obviously) but, dubas will make a move or two and you never know, anyways, not a bad thought with your team, just wanted to point out its one fatal flaw
Jan. 21 at 2:05 p.m.
#13
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honestly would just be down to see ovi and sid together
Jan. 21 at 2:27 p.m.
#14
cheeks klapanen
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Marner trade yes, Matthews trade no. We've got the best young goal scorer in the game who's becoming a perennial selke contender, not trading him for declining Crosby (yes I know how good he still is)
Jan. 21 at 2:28 p.m.
#15
cheeks klapanen
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Quoting: Marshallchapman9
Washington declines, easily actually. The value is there for Pittsburgh but Sid is retiring a Pen


In terms of long term outlook pittsburgh takes that and runs. Anyone can get traded and pittsburgh being able to move ageing sid on the decline for one of the three best centers of the next generation would be a no brainer
Jan. 21 at 2:46 p.m.
#16
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: leafs101
In terms of long term outlook pittsburgh takes that and runs. Anyone can get traded and pittsburgh being able to move ageing sid on the decline for one of the three best centers of the next generation would be a no brainer


Crosby is one of the 5 best players to ever play the game. Matthews has a very long way to go before he deserves to be mentioned in that breathe. Win a playoff series first
Jan. 21 at 4:24 p.m.
#17
cheeks klapanen
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
Crosby is one of the 5 best players to ever play the game. Matthews has a very long way to go before he deserves to be mentioned in that breathe. Win a playoff series first


lol you can say all the classic slang but you have to look at this objectively, in current times. Crosby is a great, Matthews hasn't achieved sh** in the playoffs yet. Agreed. Matthews is 24 years old, 24 goals in his last 28 games, many people's Selke favourite. Top 3 player in the world currently (we can say top 5 to be safe from any argument), Crosby - elite #1C, top player - not top 3 - 5. Crosby is 34 years old (10 full years older). The main argument with Crosby over many young stars in the game today is defensive responsibility, but out of the basket of McD, Drai, Mack, Matthews, Kuch, etc. Matthews is really the only one playing elite level defence, which, along with production and age, are the reasons why this makes no sense.

Playoffs are a team achievement; Auston Matthews is not the reason why we have lost. You're probably about to point to his production last postseason, but if you watched the series you'd notice that the Habs strategy was to smother Matthews, forcing him to pass and give Hyman and Marner clean looks, which they didn't capitalize on.

Career wise, as you said, I wouldn't mention Matthews in the same breath today. Currently, and for the future, he's better.
Jan. 21 at 4:28 p.m.
#18
cheeks klapanen
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
If our stars had won a playoff series I’d agree with you


so when Ovie and backstrom were 24 (or even 30 for that matter) and hadn't made it out of the 2nd round yet, should management have given up on them and traded them for aging stars in their mid-late 30s?
Jan. 21 at 6:18 p.m.
#19
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: leafs101
so when Ovie and backstrom were 24 (or even 30 for that matter) and hadn't made it out of the 2nd round yet, should management have given up on them and traded them for aging stars in their mid-late 30s?


Well there’s a few problems with that question. First off there wasn’t anyone like Sid or Ovy in 2008-2009, that is still a superstar forward and 34 to 36. Guys like Iggy and Datsyuk were still very good but a bit younger. The only player who was older and still elite was Lidstrom but he was pushing 40.

Second, it’s like comparing apples with hand grenades when comparing our cup drought with the Caps. They had been a competitive team even before Ovie showed up. Do you remember the Bondra days? They even went to a cup final in 97. Also, it’s just not the same thing. The Caps are never going to mean as much to that city as the Leafs mean to people all across Canada and the intensity of the demand to win because of our horrible last half a century is a whole different kettle of fish. We haven’t won a playoff series in almost 20 years. We haven’t been to a Cup final in my life and I’m turning 52 in a couple months. I don’t know if it’s mostly generational but people my age and even older have never seen this team win anything. Now I want to be wrong but I have ZERO faith in the statistician we hired as a GM. I don’t particularly lack trust in Matthews as the kid is everything he was supposed to be. I agree we can build a team around him but while we are no where near as sad as Edmonton is with their generational star, we still have failed thus far. I’d sacrifice the next two decades if it meant one cup. I guess I’m out of patience
Jan. 21 at 6:40 p.m.
#20
cheeks klapanen
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
Well there’s a few problems with that question. First off there wasn’t anyone like Sid or Ovy in 2008-2009, that is still a superstar forward and 34 to 36. Guys like Iggy and Datsyuk were still very good but a bit younger. The only player who was older and still elite was Lidstrom but he was pushing 40.

Second, it’s like comparing apples with hand grenades when comparing our cup drought with the Caps. They had been a competitive team even before Ovie showed up. Do you remember the Bondra days? They even went to a cup final in 97. Also, it’s just not the same thing. The Caps are never going to mean as much to that city as the Leafs mean to people all across Canada and the intensity of the demand to win because of our horrible last half a century is a whole different kettle of fish. We haven’t won a playoff series in almost 20 years. We haven’t been to a Cup final in my life and I’m turning 52 in a couple months. I don’t know if it’s mostly generational but people my age and even older have never seen this team win anything. Now I want to be wrong but I have ZERO faith in the statistician we hired as a GM. I don’t particularly lack trust in Matthews as the kid is everything he was supposed to be. I agree we can build a team around him but while we are no where near as sad as Edmonton is with their generational star, we still have failed thus far. I’d sacrifice the next two decades if it meant one cup. I guess I’m out of patience


look, for similar reasons I would take the Washington trade 10 times out of 10. But I firmly believe that trading Matthews for Crosby does not make the team better today. Maybe I haven't been around as long to see failure for quite as long as some fans (Im 19) but I get it, I grew up in the Phil-Dion laughing stock era. From a level headed management perspective, everything prior to the Matthews era just has to be considered a sunk cost. I don't have much patience either but I'd rather be forced into patience than to blow it all on declining players.

I have some faith in Dubas, people seem to forget how abysmal the defence core that he inherited was. We went from Rielly-Hainsey-Zaitsev-Gardiner-Dermott-Polak to Rielly-Brodie, Muzzin-Holl, Sandin-Liljegren all on Dubas' drafting, signing, and trading (rielly and liljegren of course being exceptions, though it was his marlies team that developed liljegren). I also buy into the philosophy that you can afford to pay your stars big money and trade 1st rounders when you draft well (Niemela in 3rd round, Knies in 2nd round, Robertson in 2nd round) and can effectively scout to acquire cheap bargain players that make a big impact (ex. Bunting, Kase, Kampf, Mikheyev). Truly I think the roster he assembled last year was unbelievable but got derailed mostly by injury, but also by poor performance.

Also, to say that Matthews has been everything he's been expected to be is even selling him short imo. I can't recall the last time we saw the best goal scorer in the league (yes I said it) also be a Selke candidate for two consecutive years by the age of 24. He's not prime Crosby, but he's undoubtedly better than 34 year old Crosby, and that's why that makes no sense at all.
Jan. 21 at 7:36 p.m.
#21
Banned
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
If we win a cup who cares


The owner who wants to sell tickets for more than 2 years.
Jan. 21 at 9:44 p.m.
#22
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: pharrow
The owner who wants to sell tickets for more than 2 years.


Leafs tickets have no problem selling
Jan. 21 at 10:16 p.m.
#23
GM CRIME DAWG
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Could work w/ the old guys as they have the quintessential x-factor (CUPS!!!).

Besides, at the end of two years when the old guys are toast, the simple fact of the matter is: AM will be in his last year w/ TML. That's right, he will be @ UFA status (so it's just as well he was 36-yrs old too quite frankly) because he's gonna shimmy-shake somewhere's else...
Jan. 21 at 10:17 p.m.
#24
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TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: McGruff
Could work w/ the old guys as they have the quintessential x-factor (CUPS!!!).

Besides, at the end of two years when the old guys are toast, the simple fact of the matter is: AM will be in his last year w/ TML, will be UFA status (just as well he was 36yrs old frankly) because he's gonna shimmy-shake somewhere's else...


If they can lead us to a cup I’ll take 20 years of misery. I’ve already dealt with nearly 50 years of it
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Jan. 21 at 10:20 p.m.
#25
GM CRIME DAWG
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
If they can lead us to a cup I’ll take 20 years of misery. I’ve already dealt with nearly 50 years of it


Cup Trumps All...no brainer!

They could be the wee-Marlies after that - who cares.
City would be in such a "Cup-hangover" for so long, that when they sober-up the club will likely be back on track!!
 
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