Yes

these are all really bad, Murphy isnt good at all and is much worse than Holl, Jarnkrok isnt better than Mikheyev and Braun isnt worth near that

This guy is dead wrong about most things. The one thing is that Murphy probably won't get moved because I believe Chicago gave him an extension already? Could be wrong on that but I remember seeing something about that. He certainly is good though. I once again question why some fans keep saying Holl is better than nearly every RHD in trade proposals when the team has made it abundantly clear they want to move on from him/upgrade. Jarnkrok is at least as good as Mikheyev, probably better in some ways including playoff experience. Braun could absolutely get a 2nd, I don't think he is necessarily worth it but he is a steady veteran RHD that can play on all pairs in a pinch and kill penalties AKA a GM wet dream.

OP, I think that your ideas (other than Murphy for reasons not your fault) are all pretty solid, and this guy is just a contrarian.

The value is there but we don’t need any more extra skaters

nah, im right. Murphy stinks and chicago can keep him and his terrible contract. You want people to stop saying Holl is better than the other RHD? then how about trading him for one who is better than him, not worse, like Murphy.
Some people just love to eat up everything certain fan bases say about a player like it's gospel, like this guy

It's mainly because according to this site, literally every RHD from every bad team is somehow better than a guy who's been an effective shutdown RHD for 2 years running. Murphy is amazing defensively on one of the worst defensive teams in the game but Holl is somehow trash on a top 5 defensive team.

Look at advanced stats and it says the same thing. The eye test says the same thing but then you come on here and literally any RHD is an improvement in the top 4 for a top 5 team. Guys on here be like Braun is easily the 2nd best RD in TO despite being not very good on a much worse team.

I would really like to see your reasoning for why Murphy "stinks" other than just saying you're right. He is a big, shutdown RHD. I think a Hawks fan could attest that he certainly doesn't "stink" as a player, despite the team's issues. Your problem is the only fair trade you see involving Holl would be if the Leafs brought back Scott Niedermeyer at 25 or something ridiculous. That isn't how the league works, I'm not even trying to be a hard ass but GM's make trades you will dislike, I will dislike, everyone will for their own philosophies. The Leafs have soured on Holl, which means his value is lowered, not nonexistent, but they are not coming from a position of strength. You aren't bringing back someone miles ahead of Holl with him as a chip, you're looking for a better version of him to win NOW, someone like Braun fits that description.

I don't think I personally said Holl is bad, and I do agree with you that a lot of trades here are "We trade player I don't like for top 5 player in my opinion," which is dumb. My point is that the smoke about them wanting to trade Holl has been out there for a while so a return for him directly will be underwhelming probably. Also, I am a Flyers fan and Braun is not bad, by far one of our best players every night. He is not Lidstrom, but he is exactly the kind of player he is: decent puck mover, very good defensively, good PKer, not a lot of points, you will not notice him in a good way. I would agree with you he isn't the "2nd best RD" if they trade for him, but he is a solid piece for their top 6 who can hop in a higher role if injuries arise. I do appreciate your comments because I do agree people's expectations for trades are very silly.

look up literally any stat for him. He's a 'defensive' defender that cant actually defend. He gets crushed in shots and chances against, isnt a good skater, has no offensive ability and has been a big part of a team that has been a bottom 3 or 4 defensive team in the league for years.
And just because a team is looking for an upgrade on a player does not mean they have soured on him, that's just you making stuff up. hell we have had analysts saying that Holl has significant value around the league but for some reason that didnt stick like habs fans trying to offload a terrible defender in chariot for a 1st, which is basically accepted as gospel around here.
Braun is also not better than Holl, he's not good anymore.

You're just wrong about Braun but that's another issue. I remember when "analysts" were saying that Brandon Montour was going to get a 1st last year, and he got....a 3rd. I also think that the Chiarot stuff is a little silly too, I would agree with you. I interpreted that as "he COULD get a 1st if a team is desperate" but some people have taken it and run with it. Also, I just want to remind you that I also disagreed with trading for Murphy if for other reasons in that Chicago extended him and that would be very dumb of Toronto to take on more money, but he has been a plus player the last three years and I also think that analytics are not the end all be all (Patrick Kane is a big example) but I was not trying to argue that Murphy is better than Holl. I was arguing that it feels like you are saying Holl is not worth trading for anything less than a Victor Hedman and I just don't think that that is what the Leafs will do for many reasons and is unrealistic. I also think you are putting too much stock in "analysts" who are often mouthpieces for negotiations.

I defended protecting Holl in the expansion draft, I'm a Holl fan but I do think a change of scenery would be beneficial to both the leafs and him. From what I've read Holl is serviceable and his true value is the fact that hes making 2 million against the cap for the foreseeable future. Murphy has been an analytical darling from many sites that I've seen and he's locked up past this season. Braun is also someone who I would trust in the top 4 in a pinch. Liljegren is nice as a bottom pairing guy right now but to throw him in the top 4 in a playoff round is suicide.

https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/8/31/22650328/chicago-blackhawks-2021-nhl-offseason-news-connor-murphy-contract-extension-reports-updates

I trust both Dom and JFresh and they both say that Murphy is anywhere from a Top Pair Defender to a Legitimate top 4 Defender, and most definitely an upgrade on Holl.

the main reason the leafs wont trade for him, especially at that cost, is because he isnt good. plus minus is the second worst and nonsensical stat of all time and means literally nothing.
I do enjoy the attempt to put words in my mouth that Holl will only be traded for a norris finalist when im pointing out that he simply shouldnt be replaced with a bottom pairing guy who couldnt stop the leafs 4th line from getting shots if they were skating backwards all the time. There are plenty of defenders that would be an upgrade on him, but people round here stick with guys like Murphy or chariot or other really bad defenders because they watched rock em sock em too much and think a big slow defender who crosschecks is good defensively.
Im not the one putting stock in analysts, not at all, just pointing out how everyone else round here takes their word as some sort of proof that a bad player is good, and you specifically because you are taking their word that holl is being shopped because the leafs have soured on him.

lol, look at the data if you're gonna post it. on Dom's Murphy is a negative, significantly so in everything but penalties taken, icetime and difficulty. so he plays a lot against tough opposition and gets crushed

You are better off banging your head against the wall then arguing with Mr. London.

Murphy would be an excellent addition to the Leafs. But I also don’t see CHI moving him after just resigning him.

Connor Murphy, signed to a 4x$4.4M extension by CHI, is a top-pairing defensive defenceman. #Blackhawks pic.twitter.com/za8utxLUtY

— JFresh (@JFreshHockey) August 31, 2021

Thank God, I always want to ride the line between homer and objective fan. I think he'd be a good fit alongside Rielly or Muzzin. As per Frank Seravalli, Chicago is in fire sale mode right now it might be a long shot but I think they'd be willing to kick tires on a potential trade.

https://twitter.com/account4hockey/status/1484193396705136644?s=21

And you completely dismiss who he's playing with as a partner and it's clear you haven't used the eye test to watch him. You are flat out wrong when you suggest murphy isn't good and to suggest Holl is better is laughable. Please, just stop

That made me laugh lmao. Thanks for the support

Ah yes, your eye test is infallible and mine is not or something. I mean, i could do that ol thing where i say you should watch the games, because if you did lole j did them youd know im right, but then that would be laughable right? Cause only someone who has no bias like a hawks fan would think murphy is good

Clearly you havent watched him play, am i doing that right?

As others have said here, including your Leaf brotheran, it's not worth discussing with you

Course not, you dont discuss things with people you dont agree with.