Massive over payment for severson. You arnt getting two top prospects and a 1st for him

5 for Chiarot

I think vancouver does that deal

The UFA signings are horrible.
WSH and TOR doesn't do those trades.
There needs to be protection on that 1st in VAN trade, way too risky otherwise.
Wood doesn't sign that cheap, 3.5m QO.
No need to toss Tatar away like that.





Yeah this wasn't great.

Knies is looking increasingly NHL ready and Niemela isn't that far out either. Leafs are going to need to rely on ELCs, and both Niemela and Knies appear to be some pretty high impact players that play positions where we are pretty weak

Leafs quickly decline. Like before you even talk

After witnessing Severson in those last two games against the Leafs, I hope fans realize, "Not every RHD in the league is so much better than the Leaf players". Yea, I admit, Severson is better than he was in those two games, but the difference between Severson and any Leaf Dmen isn't worth top prospects and first as you suggest. Heck no team would offer that much.

Toronto hangs up

I still like Severson quite a bit as a target for the leafs, and im not too worried about 2 bad games. It happens to everyone and i still remember how the boards blew up over georgievs value because of one game against toronto.
The thing about Severson is that people want a muzzin return for him when he isnt as good as muzzin was. Hes good, just not that good.
They also lpok at how good durzi looks now and think thats the value of what they need to get back without thinking about how neither durzi or grundstrom were as vsluable as either topi and knies are now.

I agree this trade is too much but I also think judging Severson off of 2 games is ludicrous. He is one of two guys apparently available that are without doubt clear cut upgrades over Holl. He should cost less than Muzzin did because he's not as good as muzzin was and it's looking more and more like a buyer's market this year. So I would think two B Prospects and a 1st are enough. Knies and Niemela are not Be prospects

Two B+ prospects and a 1st is not an overpayment for Severson.
It is essentially the same deal as the Muzzin trade with LAK.

Are Caps giving away Mantha? Whats the story behind that deal?
I don't think Zaitsev ever comes over...maybe another team could pry him away from Dynamo.

Agree with PaulieWalnuts that the 1st going to Vancouver would need top-10 protection.

1. He is RHD in thin RHD market
2. The Leaf prospect pool was stronger in 2018-19 than it is in 2021-22
3. The two leaf prospects sent to LAK were both top-5 at time.
4. The top prospects today are Robertson, Knies, Niemela, Amirov....so two of them, plus 1st would be Muzzin comp.

Just making up facts does not make them facts. Grundstrom was never a top 5 prospect. He was a 20 year AHL player, Druzi was a later round pick. Niemela is ripping apart his league and was the top defenceman at the last world Juniors. Knies is looking like a massive steal from his draft.

Also their prospect pool at the time of the trade was not deeper than it is now. Their top prospect was Liljegren at the time because all their actual top prospects were on the team. Matthews, Marner, Nylander etc were just a year or two into playing.

Prospect Pipeline, Nov 2018: Top-5 (link)
The Athletic, Nov 2018: #3 (link)
Leaf Nation, Sep 2018: #3 (link)
Last Word on Sports, Aug 2018: #5 (link)
The Athletic, Jul 2018: #3 (link)
Hockey Writers, Jun 2018: #3 (link)

Between 2018 draft and Muzzin trade, those are the only ones I found.

The Hockey News, The Athletic, Dobber all had Leafs' pipeline ranked higher in 2018-19 than today.

You just showed me a lot of evidence to prove they didn't have good prospects at the time. Well done.

It's clear you want a king's ransom and are going to say whatever to justify it. Good day sir

You said I was making up facts...and that Grundstrom was never a top-5 prospect in Leafs pool.
I listed 6 public rankings of Leafs pipeline, all had Grundstrom in top-5 (Durzi too).
I am only dealing with facts.

Prospect pools always look weaker in hindsight.



I have never asked for a kings ransom.
Just fair value, which would be a similar return to Muzzin trade.
Which is...two good prospects and a 1st.

No, it isn't
Severson isnt as good as muzzin was and those prospects weren't as good as the leafs ones are
This is an over payment for severson

A top 5 prospect pool simply means that they only have x amount of prospects ahead of them, it does not say anything about the quality of the prospects.
Other top 5 prospects from the leafs pool back the included guys like abramov or rasanen

Niemela is twice the prospect Durzi was and Knies is 5 times the prospect Grundstrom was.

I believe Severson is every bit as good as Muzzin, plays the more-scarce right side, and is offered with retention.
The Muzzin comp is a fair one.



I was debunking the claim that I made up "Grundstrom was a top-5 prospect".
Current prospect lists will always appear more appealing or better than older prospect lists.
If you want to use where the prospects ranked overall (vs all NHL prospects), be my guest.
You'll get the same type of result.

Some leafs fans are acting like Amirov, Knies, Robertson and Niemela are top-10, top-20 guys. They aren't.
They are good. Top-50 to top-100 guys.
Robertson shows up on a few lists a little higher (20s or 30s).
And I am not as high on Amirov.
Which is how I ended up with Knies, Niemela and 1st.

And you accuse me of making up facts?
Show me one source that makes such a claim.