Forums/Armchair-GM

TDL Moves

Created by: ChiHawk
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 7, 2022
Published: Feb. 7, 2022
Team: 2021-22 Chicago Blackhawks
Team Explanation
Toronto trade would depend on how the Hawks value Robertson.
Trades
1.
CHI
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
PIT
  1. Fleury, Marc-André ($3,500,000 retained)
2.
CHI
  1. Robertson, Nicholas
  2. Engvall, Pierre
  3. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
  4. 2023 3rd round pick (TOR)
Additional Details:
Kubalik to play with JT and Nylander; he's shown what he can do with a healthy Toews and Saad and JT and Nylander are better then they are; Kubalik can be a part of a long term solution in the top 6 for the Leafs as they could use another goal scorer/shooter. De Haan can play the left or right side and is playing really well this year but this is a playoff push acquisition. Both players would be a significant upgrade for the leafs and plug some holes.
TOR
  1. Kubalik, Dominik
  2. De Haan, Calvin ($2,250,000 retained)
Additional Details:
Hawks can take on another short term cap dump beyond Engvall; maybe Ritchie? Dermott another option but know, while dermott may have value to a few teams, to the Hawks he's a cap dump as they have logjam of LHD bottom 3 players that are younger, better or cheaper or all three. The cap hits are also prorated so perhaps another player from the Leafs doesn't need to be moved to be under the cap.
3.
CHI
  1. 2022 5th round pick (TOR)
Anywhere
ANA
  1. Carpenter, Ryan
Additional Details:
With only a $1M cap hit, prorated to much lower, Carps is a excellent PK player, high motor and physical, would be a great guy for any playoff team looking for 4th line depth and PK help.
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Marc-André Fleury: $3,500,000 (100%)
  • Calvin De Haan: $2,250,000 (49.45%)
  • Olli Määttä: $750,108 (18%)
  • Marc-André Fleury: $3,500,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
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2023
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Logo of the TOR
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2024
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$70,965,464$452,439$3,497,500$10,534,536
Left WingCenterRight Wing
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Hagel, Brandon
$1,500,000
LW, RW
RFA - 3
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Toews, Jonathan
$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
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Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
UFA - 1
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DeBrincat, Alex
$6,400,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
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Strome, Dylan
$3,000,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
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Kane, Patrick
$10,500,000
RW
NMC
UFA - 2
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Kurashev, Philipp
$842,500
LW, C
RFA - 1
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Dach, Kirby
$925,000
C, RW
RFA - 1
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Lafferty, Sam
$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
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Khaira, Jujhar
$975,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
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Borgström, Henrik
$1,000,000
C
RFA - 2
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Entwistle, Mackenzie
$811,667
RW, C
RFA - 1
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Engvall, Pierre
$1,250,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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McCabe, Jake
$4,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 4
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Jones, Seth
$5,400,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1
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Lankinen, Kevin
$800,000
G
UFA - 1
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Stillman, Riley
$1,350,000
LD
RFA - 3
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Murphy, Connor
$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the CHI
Söderblom, Arvid
$883,750
G
RFA - 2
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Kalynuk, Wyatt
$925,000
LD
RFA - 1
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Gustafsson, Erik
$800,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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Jones, Caleb
$850,000
LD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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Johnson, Tyler
$5,000,000
RW, C
NTC
UFA - 3
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Shaw, Andrew
$3,900,000
C, RW
UFA - 1

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Feb. 7 at 5:13 p.m.
#1
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I'd rather not have to deal with Kapanen's new contract. If it came down to him or Kubalik, I'd lean towards Kubalik.
Feb. 7 at 5:13 p.m.
#2
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No chance the Leafs could take on that kind of cap. Even after moving some of their bad contrats like Ritchie, it doesn't come close to fitting. Its a non-starter.
Feb. 7 at 5:15 p.m.
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Quoting: realKyleDavidson
I'd rather not have to deal with Kapanen's new contract. If it came down to him or Kubalik, I'd lean towards Kubalik.


What his QO? We need RW players more then LW. I agree I would rather have Kubalik, but those two trades are separate and Hawks don't have a cap problem next year with Flowers and De Haan out of the picture as part of a retool or rebuild.
Feb. 7 at 5:18 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: ChiHawk
What his QO? We need RW players more then LW. I agree I would rather have Kubalik, but those two trades are separate and Hawks don't have a cap problem next year with Flowers and De Haan out of the picture as part of a retool or rebuild.


Kap's QO is $2.34m
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Feb. 7 at 5:18 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Byrr
No chance the Leafs could take on that kind of cap. Even after moving some of their bad contrats like Ritchie, it doesn't come close to fitting. Its a non-starter.


The cap hits are prorated so it's retention on De Haan plus proration on both. As an example, De Haan's cap hit is essentially 1/3rd (what's left in the season) and half of that (50% retention) that actually counts towards the leafs cap hit. Kubalik would be 1/3rd without the retention piece as the Hawks would be at 3 players retained so can't do both.

Point is, often misunderstood on here, are the cap rules at the TDL. If it's Envall and Ritchie, they will be close or alternatively one of those and Dermott and can probably make it work.
Feb. 7 at 5:20 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Kap's QO is $2.34m


Quoting: realKyleDavidson
I'd rather not have to deal with Kapanen's new contract. If it came down to him or Kubalik, I'd lean towards Kubalik.


For 2.3M and given we need another RW player (assuming Dach doesn't move to wing) then I'd rather have Kap over Kubalik. As far as actual production on ice, cap, age, etc. aside, of course I would take Kubalik but the Hawks have Reichel coming up and Cat as a lock, Hagel and Kurashev on LW...either they move Kubs to the RW or swap him out essentially for Kap and save a little bit on the cap hit.
Feb. 7 at 5:31 p.m.
#7
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Leafs absolutely pass.

Your description is in fact wrong - Kubalik would not fit in long term in Toronto. Would he produce with Tavares and Nylander? Sure, a lot of guys would - Kerfoot is actually doing just fine in that spot right now and will cost less against the cap next season.

Kubalik's QO is $4M so he's not signing anything lower than that, that then drops Kerfoot down and now they're paying more forwards more money when scoring isn't the issue, it's just fine actually. There's not point in giving up a top prospect in Robertson, a 1st, one of their best defensive forwards in Engvall, and another pick for 2 guys that wouldn't be around past this season. De Haan can be had for either a 2nd or a 3rd and a lower tier prospect, he might be a target. But unless the price is right for Toronto (which would be considerably lower than this), it just doesn't make any sense at all.
Feb. 7 at 5:40 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: ChiHawk
For 2.3M and given we need another RW player (assuming Dach doesn't move to wing) then I'd rather have Kap over Kubalik. As far as actual production on ice, cap, age, etc. aside, of course I would take Kubalik but the Hawks have Reichel coming up and Cat as a lock, Hagel and Kurashev on LW...either they move Kubs to the RW or swap him out essentially for Kap and save a little bit on the cap hit.


Good reasoning. I didn't know what his QO was and that's not bad. I'm just not sure I like him as a player too much. Since Fleury might be our best asset we're for sure trading I'm really hoping to get a first back
Feb. 7 at 5:41 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Leafs absolutely pass.

Your description is in fact wrong - Kubalik would not fit in long term in Toronto. Would he produce with Tavares and Nylander? Sure, a lot of guys would - Kerfoot is actually doing just fine in that spot right now and will cost less against the cap next season.

Kubalik's QO is $4M so he's not signing anything lower than that, that then drops Kerfoot down and now they're paying more forwards more money when scoring isn't the issue, it's just fine actually. There's not point in giving up a top prospect in Robertson, a 1st, one of their best defensive forwards in Engvall, and another pick for 2 guys that wouldn't be around past this season. De Haan can be had for either a 2nd or a 3rd and a lower tier prospect, he might be a target. But unless the price is right for Toronto (which would be considerably lower than this), it just doesn't make any sense at all.


Kerfoot is a solid player but apples and oranges. Kubalik is a bonafide top 6 guy and one of the hardest shots in the NHL, but he needs a play maker setup guy which he doesn't have in Chicago currently. When given that, he's a 25+ goal scorer not to mention not bad defensively and pretty quick on break-aways. Kerfoot is not that guy obviously so it's apples and oranges but why not have both in the top 6 then? That said, Robertson is the Leafs top prospect perhaps but not "a" top prospect. I'd put him at a A- prospect which is good but let's be realistic; is Robertson going to be better then Kubalik, Kerfoot, Marner or Nylander? So what's his role? Robertson is not the bottom 6 type of guy IMO, he's going to need a top 6 role with his skill. The late 1st is a bag of magic beans statistically (30% of becoming a bonafide NHL player including bottom line) so I wouldn't act like that's moving the needle as much you might think especially in a bad draft year. De Haan and Kubalik help the Leafs achieve their goals this year, and next year is Kubalik worth Robertson is the question, I'd say yes but as you said it's about the cap hit.
Feb. 7 at 5:43 p.m.
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Quoting: realKyleDavidson
Good reasoning. I didn't know what his QO was and that's not bad. I'm just not sure I like him as a player too much. Since Fleury might be our best asset we're for sure trading I'm really hoping to get a first back


Yeah but a late 1st has a 30% of becoming a bonafide NHL player and that includes even a bottom line guy. Kap is more then that and has speed which the Hawks need more of, is on the right side which the Hawks need, and coming at the cost of someone who isn't back next year anyway. I'd do this trade in a heartbeat and the Pens probably would view this favorably as well plus Flowers would waive which is a hurdle in itself.
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Feb. 7 at 5:52 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Kerfoot is a solid player but apples and oranges. Kubalik is a bonafide top 6 guy and one of the hardest shots in the NHL, but he needs a play maker setup guy which he doesn't have in Chicago currently. When given that, he's a 25+ goal scorer not to mention not bad defensively and pretty quick on break-aways. Kerfoot is not that guy obviously so it's apples and oranges but why not have both in the top 6 then? That said, Robertson is the Leafs top prospect perhaps but not "a" top prospect. I'd put him at a A- prospect which is good but let's be realistic; is Robertson going to be better then Kubalik, Kerfoot, Marner or Nylander? So what's his role? Robertson is not the bottom 6 type of guy IMO, he's going to need a top 6 role with his skill. The late 1st is a bag of magic beans statistically (30% of becoming a bonafide NHL player including bottom line) so I wouldn't act like that's moving the needle as much you might think especially in a bad draft year. De Haan and Kubalik help the Leafs achieve their goals this year, and next year is Kubalik worth Robertson is the question, I'd say yes but as you said it's about the cap hit.


Why not have both Kerfoot and Kubalik in the top 6?

1. Cap. They need to allocate cap space elsewhere for areas that they need improvement - scoring is not one of those areas.
2. There isn't room for both of them. With Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Bunting already there it leaves 1 spot open. 2 guys can't fill 1 spot.


If Toronto wanted to add scoring they'd simply recall Robertson from the minors and add to it for cheaper and not losing any assets. But the kid has been out the majority of the season with a broken leg and hasn't played much pro hockey in 3 years because of injuries and covid, so they're letting him develop. When he's ready, there's little doubt he'll be better than both Kerfoot and Kubalik and by then Toronto will have the cap space to keep him.

You say Kubalik needs a playmaker in order to score goals - Robertson doesn't. He scores a bunch, can still be a playmaker, is defensively reliable, and can be a pain in the ass to play against. He's everything Toronto needs - he's Brad Marchand in the making, just needs time to develop since he hasn't played in awhile.
Feb. 7 at 6:08 p.m.
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
Why not have both Kerfoot and Kubalik in the top 6?

1. Cap. They need to allocate cap space elsewhere for areas that they need improvement - scoring is not one of those areas.
2. There isn't room for both of them. With Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Bunting already there it leaves 1 spot open. 2 guys can't fill 1 spot.


If Toronto wanted to add scoring they'd simply recall Robertson from the minors and add to it for cheaper and not losing any assets. But the kid has been out the majority of the season with a broken leg and hasn't played much pro hockey in 3 years because of injuries and covid, so they're letting him develop. When he's ready, there's little doubt he'll be better than both Kerfoot and Kubalik and by then Toronto will have the cap space to keep him.

You say Kubalik needs a playmaker in order to score goals - Robertson doesn't. He scores a bunch, can still be a playmaker, is defensively reliable, and can be a pain in the ass to play against. He's everything Toronto needs - he's Brad Marchand in the making, just needs time to develop since he hasn't played in awhile.


The big question of course being; Robertson hasn't shown anything in the NHL yet...always a gamble. I get what you're saying otherwise particularly the cap and makes sense.
Feb. 7 at 6:12 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: ChiHawk
The big question of course being; Robertson hasn't shown anything in the NHL yet...always a gamble. I get what you're saying otherwise particularly the cap and makes sense.


The big answer: because Robertson has played a grand total of 10 NHL games.. and how long did it take Kubalik to make the NHL again?

Give the kid time to develop and play. He's been hurt all season and then comes back and scores 2 goals in a game.. I think he'll be just fine in Toronto.
Feb. 7 at 6:13 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Yeah but a late 1st has a 30% of becoming a bonafide NHL player and that includes even a bottom line guy. Kap is more then that and has speed which the Hawks need more of, is on the right side which the Hawks need, and coming at the cost of someone who isn't back next year anyway. I'd do this trade in a heartbeat and the Pens probably would view this favorably as well plus Flowers would waive which is a hurdle in itself.


All good points. My only other thought would be is he going to be around/at his peak when the Hawks are ready to win again? While the draft is a crap shoot they still have the hope of hitting on someone would will be ready in maybe 3 years and have him on an ELC for another 3 years. But with all that said, you made good reasoning for me to consider that deal
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Feb. 7 at 6:16 p.m.
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Quoting: TrueCanuck
The big answer: because Robertson has played a grand total of 10 NHL games.. and how long did it take Kubalik to make the NHL again?

Give the kid time to develop and play. He's been hurt all season and then comes back and scores 2 goals in a game.. I think he'll be just fine in Toronto.


It's not a knock it's simply a fact; robertson hasn't shown anything yet and that is always a gamble. A player showing well in the OHL or AHL isn't the NHL as we all know....look at Kirby Dach...case and point and Robertson is not as highly touted as a prospect as Dach. Both need time to develop but we never know how these kids translate. So maybe Robertson is able to put up 25 to 30 goals in the NHL like Kubalik but maybe not...hard to say and what makes two perspectives on the trade intriguing.
Feb. 7 at 6:47 p.m.
#16
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That Penguins trade is just laughable.
but hey the hawks are about to have the worst GM in NHL history. So we shouldn't expect much better.
Feb. 7 at 7:32 p.m.
#17
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Similar to a package I was working on with TOR actually. I like this better as I hold Kubaliks value in the same stead as you but was feeling a sense of trying to gauge what TOR fans are thinking towards it.
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Feb. 7 at 8:14 p.m.
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Penguins are not doing that. Rutherford is gone and Hextall has no sense of nostalgia for MAF. Add a 2nd and the Pens accept.
Feb. 7 at 11:32 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Penguins are not doing that. Rutherford is gone and Hextall has no sense of nostalgia for MAF. Add a 2nd and the Pens accept.


You guys likely aren't qualifying Kap right? Kap on his own is MAYBE worth a 2nd so no, that's not happening.
Feb. 8 at 9:50 a.m.
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Quoting: ChiHawk
You guys likely aren't qualifying Kap right? Kap on his own is MAYBE worth a 2nd so no, that's not happening.


I'm not sure what world people are living on. I'm aware that all fans of their own teams can overvalue their own property on here, but despite whatever frustrations there are about Kapanen and his game, he's still a good hockey player who's miscast on this team or simply not a good fit. Kapanen is on pace for 45 to 50 points and likely finishing with between 15 to 20 goals and he's 25 years old.

What is a 25 year old RFA who consistently finishes in the mid 40's point production and over 15 goals a year worth?
Feb. 8 at 11:27 a.m.
#21
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
I'm not sure what world people are living on. I'm aware that all fans of their own teams can overvalue their own property on here, but despite whatever frustrations there are about Kapanen and his game, he's still a good hockey player who's miscast on this team or simply not a good fit. Kapanen is on pace for 45 to 50 points and likely finishing with between 15 to 20 goals and he's 25 years old.

What is a 25 year old RFA who consistently finishes in the mid 40's point production and over 15 goals a year worth?


That isn't under contract being a key point; a early 2nd round pick. Kubalik, who arguably has put up better numbers and certainly a better goal scorer in the last 3 years compared to Kap who also is a RFA is worth a early 2nd as well according to "expert" analysts.

Last 3 seasons
Kap = .58ppg
Kubalik = .59ppg

Kap = .21gpg
Kubs = .32gpg

I'm not overvaluing my own property as you're alluding to, just going with the what the experts are saying. It doesn't mean I agree with them, but Kap isn't worth (2) 2nds as you're suggesting (one 2nd for Flowers) without a contract in place according to the experts; similar to Kubalik's value despite both players having pretty good on-ice production and again, arguably Kubalik more given his goal scoring abilities are superior. My opinion is both are worth late 1st rounders as I don't believe draft picks outside of the top 20 in most draft years have a ton of value, but that is counterintuitive to what most fans think and in some cases GMs think.

How that translates to the Toronto trade is due to retention plus taking on (2) cap dumps....I only listed one but in the description said another can be added just didn't know who; was also based on a conversation minutes earlier on another thread with a Leaf's fan and the Leafs 1st being a very late first rounder.
Feb. 8 at 11:58 a.m.
#22
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Quoting: ChiHawk
That isn't under contract being a key point; a early 2nd round pick. Kubalik, who arguably has put up better numbers and certainly a better goal scorer in the last 3 years compared to Kap who also is a RFA is worth a early 2nd as well according to "expert" analysts.

Last 3 seasons
Kap = .58ppg
Kubalik = .59ppg

Kap = .21gpg
Kubs = .32gpg

I'm not overvaluing my own property as you're alluding to, just going with the what the experts are saying. It doesn't mean I agree with them, but Kap isn't worth (2) 2nds as you're suggesting (one 2nd for Flowers) without a contract in place according to the experts; similar to Kubalik's value despite both players having pretty good on-ice production and again, arguably Kubalik more given his goal scoring abilities are superior. My opinion is both are worth late 1st rounders as I don't believe draft picks outside of the top 20 in most draft years have a ton of value, but that is counterintuitive to what most fans think and in some cases GMs think.

How that translates to the Toronto trade is due to retention plus taking on (2) cap dumps....I only listed one but in the description said another can be added just didn't know who; was also based on a conversation minutes earlier on another thread with a Leaf's fan and the Leafs 1st being a very late first rounder.


I didn't mean to imply YOU were overvaluing your own property. I was bringing that up because I didn't want to imply that I was. The reason I'm still adding to this trade is that while yes, there is no contract, Kap is an RFA and MAF is a UFA which is a significant distinction. You have the rights to Kap and chances are you won't see too much of a raise to his salary. I'm not precisely sure what his Qualifying Offer is, but probably low $4M.

MAF is a rental whereas Kap is not. Trading MAF as a rental and not getting roster player is a very different scenario when you're moving a rental for a roster player. Kapanen, by the simple fact of being an RFA gives him more value than MAF.
Feb. 8 at 1:05 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
I didn't mean to imply YOU were overvaluing your own property. I was bringing that up because I didn't want to imply that I was. The reason I'm still adding to this trade is that while yes, there is no contract, Kap is an RFA and MAF is a UFA which is a significant distinction. You have the rights to Kap and chances are you won't see too much of a raise to his salary. I'm not precisely sure what his Qualifying Offer is, but probably low $4M.

MAF is a rental whereas Kap is not. Trading MAF as a rental and not getting roster player is a very different scenario when you're moving a rental for a roster player. Kapanen, by the simple fact of being an RFA gives him more value than MAF.


I believe Kap's QO is $2.4M but he's arbitration eligible which is why his value isn't that high as that throws a big wrench into what would he really sign for without going to arbitration. Arbitration eligible RFAs generally have a lot less value then a RFA that doesn't have arbitration rights. Same is true for Kubalik. Both would be easily worth a 1st or more if they weren't arbitration eligible.

MAF's value is all based on the market demand at the TDL for goalies because he is a rental. Most experts are saying either a 1st or 2nd (both of course are late round picks being playoff contenders).
Feb. 8 at 1:57 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: ChiHawk
I believe Kap's QO is $2.4M but he's arbitration eligible which is why his value isn't that high as that throws a big wrench into what would he really sign for without going to arbitration. Arbitration eligible RFAs generally have a lot less value then a RFA that doesn't have arbitration rights. Same is true for Kubalik. Both would be easily worth a 1st or more if they weren't arbitration eligible.

MAF's value is all based on the market demand at the TDL for goalies because he is a rental. Most experts are saying either a 1st or 2nd (both of course are late round picks being playoff contenders).


No, I get MAF's value, but that's most likely if he's just being traded for futures. IMO if he's being moved for a roster player in a hockey move, it changes the dynamic, you know what I mean?
 
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