SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

JT Miller - DETAILED DESCRIPTION WITH ANALYTICS AND PROSPECT EVALUATIONS

Created by: TraeYoung
Team: 2021-22 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Feb. 23, 2022
Published: Feb. 24, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
PLEASE READ THIS DESCRIPTION. It features analytics and prospect evaluations from someone that’s side hobby is player scouting for the draft and AHL. I’ve watched every Wilkes Barre and San Diego game specifically and most other teams when the matchups are of importance (as in Ontario versus Toronto type matches in terms of prospects to know). Hopefully you can appreciate the thought that went into this and not roast me too hard! It’s all for fun so please be nice in the comments! Constructive criticism is appreciated! Sorry if there are any spelling mistakes or typos or bad grammar. I hope what I wrote makes sense and is easy to read! Without further ado….

Analytics provided by JFresh and Evolving Hockey. Special thanks and shout out to them.

Look, I know that other teams can make better offers for JT Miller. This is what I think the Penguins could offer in the sense of only giving up futures. This is only if the Canucks wanted to move JT Miller for sure. Garland would be a good target, as well. I’d stay away from Boeser due to his $7.5 million qualifying offer this summer. Let me break down each trade.

Ottawa - Acquiring Anton Forsberg
Forsberg has had a solid year and a half with the Senators. He poses a 58% WAR, much higher than DeSmith. His strength comes in stopping high danger chances (90%), low chances (62%), rebound control (92%) and a lack of poor starts (63% quality, 85% excellent, and only 13% are bad starts). All of these stats come from JFresh. He makes dirt cheap money and would serve as a good backup rental. It may not be as splashy as Fleury or Holtby, but it doesn’t mess with Jarry mentally and provides financial flexibility compared to a favorite target of mine in Driedger. It also helps that Ottawa is in a situation where Gustavsson will not be waiver exempt next season and this will force a decision on whether they can resign Forsberg, waive Murray or risk losing Gustavsson. They can call up Gustavsson for good after this trade and see what they have with him. Domingue serves as a roster spot swap for CBA’s sake. He can be called up when an injury occurs or if Ottawa wants to let Gustavsson develop and not risk winning too many games, no offense to Domingue. The pick can be conditional if need be. The trade market for goalies has never been high, so a mid round pick seems fair to me.

Trading Pettersson back to Anaheim
Let me get this out of the way. I really like Marcus Pettersson. I’d love to keep the D-core as it is. However, with the nature of the salary cap and our off-season contracts that we have to handle, I’d rather move out a longer term contract in Pettersson as opposed to a pending free agent in Kapanen who has potential and Zucker who will be on the last year of his deal next year and is a well liked teammate and has a goal scoring history. I understand that those two are prime candidates to be moved but forward depth never hurts and those guys could be x-factors in the playoffs if we’re lucky. Zucker also offers a massive forechecking presence that the Pens thrive off of. Kapanen, again, is young and has potential and if he were to get hot, that’d be nice to have in our back pocket.

Now onto the actual trade here, Pettersson has had a great year this year. He’s proven to be a good partner for Marino and that duo has allowed the least amount of scoring chances statistically on the Penguins. However, in order to improve the forward core and clear salary for the future, I am willing to trade him and clear way for our log-jammed left side. More on that in a second. It’s hard to gauge his trade value due to his contract, however I think a third round pick would be either just right or a tad below his market value. Adding in Mahura does add to the log jam, however I like his game and he has not cracked a Dallas Eakins roster for long. I’m an outsider so I could be out of touch on the reason why, however I can’t see his value being that high that it makes or breaks a deal. He’s a smooth skating defenseman which the Penguins like to have. Who knows if there’s something to be had there or not. Can’t hurt. If anything, this deal can be done without him if it makes everyone happier. Anaheim would do this as a replacement for Hampus Lindholm if they do end up trading him or losing him in free agency. They have the cap space as of right now. He’d be a good partner for Drysdale or eventually Axel Andersson!!

JT Miller comes back to Pittsburgh
Local product JT Miller may be the hottest name on the block. The Penguins won’t get him. I’d be shocked. However, this is cap friendly so Vancouver doesn’t have a choice in this matter. Let’s break this deal down piece by piece and try to accurately display the value going both ways.

JT Miller - this doesn’t need explanation. We all know what he brings to the table and it doesn’t hurt that there’s a storyline that people will cling onto. Shirts would rapidly appear in the Strip District, I’m sure.

Tyler Motte - He’s been described by The Athletic as a fast player who guys love to have on their line. His WAR is 48% with most of that coming from a 75% even strength defense, 82% goals per 60 and 68% finishing. Usually, I’d like to target guys who’s finishing are low and high high EV offense and goals/60 so you can gamble on their lack of luck or PDO, however Motte fits as a depth piece for a playoff run, rather than a long term project. Injuries always happen and he, Boyle and Simon would be a nice trio of experienced depth to go with DOC and Zohorna. I have salary retained on him here, although he is only making $1.25 million this year. Nothing that breaks the bank. He does not have to be included in this deal if that helps make this more fair.

Luke Schenn - A player who was once described as the future captain of the Leafs when Burke drafted him. He serves as a more physical Ruhwedel piece for Vancouver, although Chad’s analytics are way better than Schenn’s. It never hurts to have defensive depth, especially when they’re right handed. He and Friedman cover that right side well. He’s also cheap.

And now for the Pittsburgh side of things…

Heinen - He’s a cheap roster player who has a tendency to score goals in bunches. He’s an average to above-average skater and he is a BC native. He poses a 56% WAR with the following stats: 65% EV offense, 49% EV defense, 70% G/60, 63% A/60, 65% penalties (as in he doesn’t take many), and 48% finishing. He’s a low risk, high reward player who looks like a legit scoring threat in the making if the situation is perfect. Easier said than done, of course. You could argue that the Pens should keep him and not acquire Motte in this deal and I would be ready to agree with you. It’s a way of offering a cheap roster player to essentially try out for the Canucks.

Poulin - Rutherford and Allvin drafted Samuel in the first round of 2019. He’s been playing a ton of center in Wilkes Barre and ever since being healthy scratched, he has climbed up the point totals for WBS. I’d be tempted to keep him and allow Vancouver to take a more flashy, developing prospect like Lukas Svejkovsky who’s had a solid last two seasons in the WHL or Kirill Tankov who made the Russian WJC team this year and shows some unique talent overseas. They’ve both been rising lately so it shouldn’t be scoffed at. Back to Poulin, he is an average to below average skater more so due to his incomplete stride and lack of straight line acceleration. He is quite the playmaker as Alex Nylander has found out and works well in a half wall spot on the powerplay. He has middle six potential and more power to his game than his size would suggest. An under the radar prospect due to his statistical struggles in the AHL after dominating the QMJHL.

Blomqvist - The Pens have a ton of goaltending prospects. Rutherford and Allvin took Blomqvist in the 2nd round of 2020 and Calle Clang in the 3rd. They can choose which goalie they want. They both have looked above average overseas. Clang has had higher quality starts in the SHL than Blomqvist has had in the LIIGA. Blomqvist is 6’2” and has shown solid rebound control and overall good positioning. His athleticism can be of question whereas you could argue Clang is better in that regard, however he is more erratic in net. Clang has been the higher riser since the draft despite being the lower pick. Rutherford loves to have goalie prospect depth and it’s been beneficial as seen with Murray, Jarry, DeSmith and Gustavsson.

Broz - Tristan Broz had a terrible start at Minnesota this year. The 2021 2nd round pick reminded me of a less talented Guentzel or more so a Connor Sheary. His skating is better than Poulin and Legare and isn’t a negative but it’s definitely not a positive. He is small is size but has shiftiness to his game. His playmaking is his strongest attribute and his shot can be sneaky. As a freshman, he earned very few minutes to start the year in college. His size didn’t allow for him to create at the collegiate level. However, he has picked up the pace and scored 4 goals in the December/January time frame. He looks to have adapted to the college level. You may think, this sounds like solid player why get rid of him? Well his timeline does not fit the Pens. He needs to stay in college at least one or, in my opinion, two more years and then needs time in the AHL. He needs to physically mature and needs to adapt to each level that he goes to, unfortunately. He’s not a Rutherford pick but he may remind JR of some of his own. Being a second round pick doesn’t hurt, either.

Now how do we equate the values in this deal? I’d break it down like this:
Motte and Schenn for a 2023 3rd round pick from Anaheim.
JT Miller and a 2023 5th round pick for Heinen, Poulin, Blomqvist, Broz, 2022 1st round pick and 2023 2nd round pick.

The salary retention could be compensated for better if this does not do it already. How about another 3rd or raise the Anaheim 3rd to a 2nd and add in a 4th? Just a thought. Please don’t stress about the cap retention too much!

This deal essentially comes down to what you think of these prospects and how many picks you think JT is worth. I implore you to look at this trade as pretty much the latter part of JT for the prospects and two picks. We can take out Motte or Schenn or the 5th round pick. That’s not anything to spill milk over. Let’s examine JT’s value and how the Pens can attempt to even come close to meeting that. It’s in theory a quantity over quality deal, sure. But that quality is subjective especially when JR and Allvin is the one that believed in those guys in the first place as GM and director of scouting and then assistant GM, respectively.

As for the lines and the LD situation, let me explain. I’d like to see JT with Geno to start. Carter and JT give the Pens to options for face off takers on that line, an aspect that Malkin struggles in. Zucker-ERod-Kappy have been an analytically strong line for the Pens and I would like to try it in order to attempt to get Kapanen going again and let Zucker come back from injury with less minutes. The middle six can be moved around. As for the D-pairs, one of weaknesses of the Pens is physicality. This really showed with Pete and Marino. Friedman is a physical player, has played more LD in his amateur and pro career despite being right handed, and posted solid analytics at the start of the year. I’d be tempted to love that pair to the 3rd pair due to Friedman’s lack of experience. You can make the case for any of the three lefties in POJ, Riikola or Mahura to play with Marino, however I wanted to let POJ and Mahura develop while adding physicality and familiarity to the lineup. Schenn is there to be an injury replacement. I’m not familiar with his experience as a LD as he is right handed. I’m also not 100% sure as to Mahura’s waiver status, thus why I’d keep Riikola and POJ in the AHL over him. I know I should have researched it but this is the final piece that I’m typing and boy do my fingers hurt. Also, DeSmith is on the practice squad to relieve cap and allow him to be an injury replacement. Don’t worry about waivers especially once’s the trade deadline commences. It’s not a huge risk or a big loss in my opinion. It’s always good to have a third goalie as the Pens found out with Jeff Zatkoff in 2016. Let’s end this part with the special teams. Powerplay 1 is the same while powerplay 2 sees Miller replace Kapanen and Matheson replace Marino. I think Matheson could provide a better offensive spark on that second unit. The penalty kills are pretty routine. You can have Carter or Kapanen or whoever you want in that second unit spot. The second pair D is flexible as well. Also, the taxi squad is just showing call up or healthy scratch options. Most of these guys would be in WBS to keep developing and help the team try to win!!

I’d like to thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you can appreciate the thought I put into this and the detailed analysis. I’m expecting the comments to be mean but maybe not. We’ll see. Thanks again, everyone!

* Also, I want to add that Josh Yohe of The Athletic reported today that Hextall isn’t enamored with POJ and would be willing to trade him. Could be an interesting piece to add here especially with the JR connection….
Trades
1.
OTT
  1. Domingue, Louis
  2. 2022 4th round pick (PIT)
2.
PIT
  1. Mahura, Josh
  2. 2023 3rd round pick (ANA)
3.
PIT
  1. Miller, J.T. ($1,250,000 retained)
  2. Motte, Tyler ($525,000 retained)
  3. Schenn, Luke
  4. 2023 5th round pick (VAN)
VAN
  1. Blomqvist, Joel [Reserve List]
  2. Broz, Tristan [Reserve List]
  3. Heinen, Danton
  4. Poulin, Samuel
  5. 2022 1st round pick (PIT)
  6. 2023 2nd round pick (PIT)
  7. 2023 3rd round pick (ANA)
4.
PIT
    Roster spot swap so no team potentially goes over the maximum 50 roster slots and allows both teams to make more trades with the same amount of roster space as tryeh had before this trade. Flexibility would have been an advantage for Vancouver but it’s nothing to go crazy about. In the JT trade, PIT gets three contracts while VAN gets 2.
    VAN
    1. Chaput, Michael
    Additional Details:
    Assistant captain in WBS. Could be swapped with another prospect in theory but that’s for another time.
    Buyouts
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2022
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    2023
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the VAN
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the TOR
    2024
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the PIT
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$79,328,031$0$0$2,171,969

    Roster

    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $8,700,000$8,700,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
    $4,000,000$4,000,000
    C, LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $9,500,000$9,500,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $2,636,364$2,636,364
    RW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $3,200,000$3,200,000
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $2,750,000$2,750,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $1,725,000$1,725,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $2,200,000$2,200,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $4,100,000$4,100,000
    LD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $7,250,000$7,250,000
    RD
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $725,000$725,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $4,400,000$4,400,000
    RD
    UFA - 6
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $4,875,000$4,875,000
    LD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $750,000$750,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Ottawa Senators
    $900,000$900,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
    $700,000$700,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $750,000$750,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
    $850,000$850,000
    RD
    UFA - 2
    Taxi Squad
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $863,333$863,333 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    LD/RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $1,250,000$1,250,000 ($125,000$125K$125,000$125K)
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $1,150,000$1,150,000 ($25,000$25K$25,000$25K)
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $925,000$925,000 ($0$0$0$0) (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
    $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0)
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2

    Embed Code

    • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
    • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

    Text-Embed

    Click to Highlight
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:24 a.m.
    #1
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Apr. 2017
    Posts: 786
    Likes: 207
    You think they could get someone to take zucker? They have a lot of money tied up in the bottom 6. I just have always liked pettersson Marino as a pair, and don't think it would be that smart to break it up. I know how well that 3rd line has played though.

    Forsberg has always intrigued me, but he seems like that type of goalie who just has good numbers on bad teams. I don't have real evidence to back it up, but some goalies have low expectations and do well

    Jt Miller trade is decent, I don't see him going for as much as everyone is saying. Would be a great fit with Sid (but so is everyone)
    TraeYoung liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:31 a.m.
    #2
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: In_it_to_winnik
    You think they could get someone to take zucker? They have a lot of money tied up in the bottom 6. I just have always liked pettersson Marino as a pair, and don't think it would be that smart to break it up. I know how well that 3rd line has played though.

    Forsberg has always intrigued me, but he seems like that type of goalie who just has good numbers on bad teams. I don't have real evidence to back it up, but some goalies have low expectations and do well

    Jt Miller trade is decent, I don't see him going for as much as everyone is saying. Would be a great fit with Sid (but so is everyone)


    Thanks for the comment! I’ll answer each part.

    1. I’m not sure someone will take Zucker unless he has a good playoff run which I think is possible. You could see him swapped for a D or traded with a pick for virtually nothing or bought out or kept if they can’t bring back a couple of the guys. I know that’s a lot of different scenarios but it’s hard to tell.

    2. Forsberg is definitely a suspicious goalie to me. He’s 6’3” but plays super short in the net. He’s also reactionary rather than calm and stable. However, he twice beat Carolina with 40+ save performances, I believe and all three of Ottawas goalie have had 900+ save percentages since March 18th of last year! I’m willing to risk it due to it being success dating back to last year, as well. If not, how much worse can he be than DeSmith, not that he’s as bad as some people suggest, and hopefully he doesn’t need to play in the playoffs anyway!

    3. I’d like to avoid getting rid of Pete so we can keep that pair but like you maybe alluded to, that forward line can be a game changer and I’d rather have four good lines and 5 good D than three good lines and 6 good D if that makes sense. And I also don’t think JT will go for as much as people say on here but I have to try to please the crowd to minimize the insults that I’ll get unfortunately lol. It’s tough to move a high salary guy in todays cap world and people tend to ignore that due to his point totals. I think he’d fit well with most of our centers and Sid especially. That would allow Jake to move to RW and Rust to play with Geno which has always been great! Interesting idea for sure
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:34 a.m.
    #3
    What in tarnation
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2017
    Posts: 32,708
    Likes: 31,448
    Good effort on this.

    My two cents are that I don't think ANA is that interested in bringing Pettersson back. He was traded to PIT due to LHD logjam, and the logjam is still there, to an extent. I think that as you said, this could only happen if ANA loses Lindholm to free agency. But if that happens then ANA is taking a step back in their retool, which also means that they might not be buying assets this time.

    As for the VAN trade, I like the construction, but I think this offer can get outbid. PIT's prospect quality does not match to the likes of what NYR, or potentially COL, could offer VAN at this time.
    TraeYoung, cooliny, aedoran and 1 other person liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:36 a.m.
    #4
    2018 Canucks
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2017
    Posts: 2,172
    Likes: 747
    Quoting: In_it_to_winnik
    You think they could get someone to take zucker? They have a lot of money tied up in the bottom 6. I just have always liked pettersson Marino as a pair, and don't think it would be that smart to break it up. I know how well that 3rd line has played though.

    Forsberg has always intrigued me, but he seems like that type of goalie who just has good numbers on bad teams. I don't have real evidence to back it up, but some goalies have low expectations and do well

    Jt Miller trade is decent, I don't see him going for as much as everyone is saying. Would be a great fit with Sid (but so is everyone)


    That Miller package doesn’t get close.
    aedoran liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:40 a.m.
    #5
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Good effort on this.

    My two cents are that I don't think ANA is that interested in bringing Pettersson back. He was traded to PIT due to LHD logjam, and the logjam is still there, to an extent. I think that as you said, this could only happen if ANA loses Lindholm to free agency. But if that happens then ANA is taking a step back in their retool, which also means that they might not be buying assets this time.

    As for the VAN trade, I like the construction, but I think this offer can get outbid. PIT's prospect quality does not match to the likes of what NYR, or potentially COL, could offer VAN at this time.


    Thank you for the constructive criticism. I wasn’t sure who to trade Pete to as LD tends to be a common position for most teams to have an abundance of. I figured the Lindholm situation could be interesting especially if they acquire an extra pick in that package besides a first that they could then flip here for a replacement. Fair points though.

    I know this offer would be outbid by most teams. I figured I’d show off what may arguably be the Pens’ best futures based package. The only thing to have hope for is JR and Alvin’s familiarity with these guys which people really overrate on here when a Pitt trade is made.

    Thanks again for the comment!
    justaBoss liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:42 a.m.
    #6
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: Nighthawk
    That Miller package doesn’t get close.


    I appreciate the comment. This isn’t supposed to be an offer that Vancouver would choose over others. This is just one of the Pens best offers which the Canucks would most likely decline. Never say never in this league. We aren’t in those rooms and who knows what the real value is. Also, asking price is much different from the final result. Look at Buffalo and Eichel. This was more so for my fellow Pens fans to see and react to but I appreciate the comment again!!
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:44 a.m.
    #7
    BRUCE THERE IT IS
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Nov. 2020
    Posts: 1,635
    Likes: 1,171
    This was a really good and well thought out post. Like Justaboss said, Pittsburgh has no quality prospects that Vancouver would want. So it's really hard just trying to brute force the value with sheer picks and mid-tier prospects. That being said, if Miller were to go to the Pens, Marino must the base going back cause he's the only player that meets Vancouver's needs. But this wouldn't make sense because it would destroy the right side of the Pens' defence, especially if Letang walks. This is a very good try, it just might be more fitting for Pittsburgh to try and go after Boeser or Garland with Kapanen and others because they don't have enough for Miller.
    TraeYoung, justaBoss and theleano1 liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:45 a.m.
    #8
    What in tarnation
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2017
    Posts: 32,708
    Likes: 31,448
    Quoting: TraeYoung
    Thank you for the constructive criticism. I wasn’t sure who to trade Pete to as LD tends to be a common position for most teams to have an abundance of. I figured the Lindholm situation could be interesting especially if they acquire an extra pick in that package besides a first that they could then flip here for a replacement. Fair points though.

    I know this offer would be outbid by most teams. I figured I’d show off what may arguably be the Pens’ best futures based package. The only thing to have hope for is JR and Alvin’s familiarity with these guys which people really overrate on here when a Pitt trade is made.

    Thanks again for the comment!


    Well they're probably high on Hållander. They traded him in a package to bring Kapanen back, and they traded McCann for to bring him back. Use that info how you like lol.
    TraeYoung and Hamcity liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:47 a.m.
    #9
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: cooliny
    This was a really good and well thought out post. Like Justaboss said, Pittsburgh has no quality prospects that Vancouver would want. So it's really hard just trying to brute force the value with sheer picks and mid-tier prospects. That being said, if Miller were to go to the Pens, Marino must the base going back cause he's the only player that meets Vancouver's needs. But this wouldn't make sense because it would destroy the right side of the Pens' defence, especially if Letang walks. This is a very good try, it just might be more fitting for Pittsburgh to try and go after Boeser or Garland with Kapanen and others because they don't have enough for Miller.


    I appreciate the comment! It would be interesting to do a Marino deal here, however as you said, there’s no replacement for him on that right side. I like the idea of Garland as a trade piece, however reports on his value is conflicting. The Athletic reports him as having much lower value on the market than he does for the Canucks do to his contract length which is tough to swallow in this cap era. And it doesn’t hurt that JT has the local storyline. Again, I appreciate the comment and feedback!
    cooliny liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:47 a.m.
    #10
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Apr. 2017
    Posts: 786
    Likes: 207
    Quoting: TraeYoung
    Thanks for the comment! I’ll answer each part.

    1. I’m not sure someone will take Zucker unless he has a good playoff run which I think is possible. You could see him swapped for a D or traded with a pick for virtually nothing or bought out or kept if they can’t bring back a couple of the guys. I know that’s a lot of different scenarios but it’s hard to tell.

    2. Forsberg is definitely a suspicious goalie to me. He’s 6’3” but plays super short in the net. He’s also reactionary rather than calm and stable. However, he twice beat Carolina with 40+ save performances, I believe and all three of Ottawas goalie have had 900+ save percentages since March 18th of last year! I’m willing to risk it due to it being success dating back to last year, as well. If not, how much worse can he be than DeSmith, not that he’s as bad as some people suggest, and hopefully he doesn’t need to play in the playoffs anyway!

    3. I’d like to avoid getting rid of Pete so we can keep that pair but like you maybe alluded to, that forward line can be a game changer and I’d rather have four good lines and 5 good D than three good lines and 6 good D if that makes sense. And I also don’t think JT will go for as much as people say on here but I have to try to please the crowd to minimize the insults that I’ll get unfortunately lol. It’s tough to move a high salary guy in todays cap world and people tend to ignore that due to his point totals. I think he’d fit well with most of our centers and Sid especially. That would allow Jake to move to RW and Rust to play with Geno which has always been great! Interesting idea for sure


    Maybe Vancouver has interest in zucker? again just speculation but he has lways had strong play driving numbers and Vancouver is actually getting an analytics department. I feel like Zucker needs a change and hopefully could return to form.

    Again this sounds dumb, but goalies like forsberg have some of those nights where he is lights out. There are always jokes about Toronto getting goalies by sub par goalies, yet it's not untrue. It would be a decent bet though. As you said, he can't be worse than Desmith.

    I'd just never break up a solid top 4. Once you do that, you will always be looking for the next guy for Marino. Might get more than that for him in a trade tbh, big defenseman that can skate, pk and locked in on term aren't easy to get. But I understand the cap of it all.
    TraeYoung liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:48 a.m.
    #11
    2018 Canucks
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2017
    Posts: 2,172
    Likes: 747
    Quoting: TraeYoung
    I appreciate the comment. This isn’t supposed to be an offer that Vancouver would choose over others. This is just one of the Pens best offers which the Canucks would most likely decline. Never say never in this league. We aren’t in those rooms and who knows what the real value is. Also, asking price is much different from the final result. Look at Buffalo and Eichel. This was more so for my fellow Pens fans to see and react to but I appreciate the comment again!!


    Appreciate all the thought you put in but it doesn’t address needs nor the quality.
    TraeYoung and theleano1 liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:49 a.m.
    #12
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: justaBoss
    Well they're probably high on Hållander. They traded him in a package to bring Kapanen back, and they traded McCann for to bring him back. Use that info how you like lol.


    Yeah it’s interesting too because JR and Allvin traded up to get him in his draft. JR wasn’t here for re-acquiring him but Bex attributed it to Alvin’s glowing review of Hallander. I thought about including him but I must say he is one of my favorite prospects in our system and he is getting very close to being NHL ready. I’d be willing to part with him for JT or even Garland potentially, or course lol
    justaBoss liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:52 a.m.
    #13
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: In_it_to_winnik
    Maybe Vancouver has interest in zucker? again just speculation but he has lways had strong play driving numbers and Vancouver is actually getting an analytics department. I feel like Zucker needs a change and hopefully could return to form.

    Again this sounds dumb, but goalies like forsberg have some of those nights where he is lights out. There are always jokes about Toronto getting goalies by sub par goalies, yet it's not untrue. It would be a decent bet though. As you said, he can't be worse than Desmith.

    I'd just never break up a solid top 4. Once you do that, you will always be looking for the next guy for Marino. Might get more than that for him in a trade tbh, big defenseman that can skate, pk and locked in on term aren't easy to get. But I understand the cap of it all.


    Zucker would be interesting for Vancouver but they are in a cap crunch and his extra year of term doesn’t help.

    POJ is an interesting partner in concept for Marino which is why I’d be willing to trade Marcus. However, it’s a limited sample size and his lack of experience could hurt in the postseason. Josh Yohe of The Athletic also reported today that Hextall isn’t enamored with POJ and would be willing to move him. JR traded for him so that could be interesting although they don’t need LD!
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:54 a.m.
    #14
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: Nighthawk
    Appreciate all the thought you put in but it doesn’t address needs nor the quality.


    Well thanks for taking the time to read this anyway! Enjoy the rest of your season!
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:56 a.m.
    #15
    BRUCE THERE IT IS
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Nov. 2020
    Posts: 1,635
    Likes: 1,171
    Quoting: TraeYoung
    I appreciate the comment! It would be interesting to do a Marino deal here, however as you said, there’s no replacement for him on that right side. I like the idea of Garland as a trade piece, however reports on his value is conflicting. The Athletic reports him as having much lower value on the market than he does for the Canucks do to his contract length which is tough to swallow in this cap era. And it doesn’t hurt that JT has the local storyline. Again, I appreciate the comment and feedback!


    Yep. To first reply to another post - no chance Canucks take a chance on Zucker. Too expensive and doesn’t fit our group. He would be a plug but we already have a lot of those on our roster lol.

    We paid the 9th overall and a 2nd for Garland, and although he doesn’t seem like that value anymore, anything less than the equivalent of the value of a 1st and an A/B+ prospect I’d rather keep him instead
    TraeYoung liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 12:57 a.m.
    #16
    Thread Starter
    Trae Young
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jan. 2020
    Posts: 132
    Likes: 33
    Quoting: cooliny
    Yep. To first reply to another post - no chance Canucks take a chance on Zucker. Too expensive and doesn’t fit our group. He would be a plug but we already have a lot of those on our roster lol.

    We paid the 9th overall and a 2nd for Garland, and although he doesn’t seem like that value anymore, anything less than the equivalent of the value of a 1st and an A/B+ prospect I’d rather keep him instead


    The only thing I’d say to that last part is that it was a different GM and you also paid that price in part to dump salary but granted you took on OEL. I think Vancouver should keep him as well. What you’d get on the market now, according to reports, wouldn’t justify trading him unless the salary cap demands it.
    cooliny liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 1:21 a.m.
    #17
    PDG over PDO
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 4,978
    Likes: 4,046
    Quoting: In_it_to_winnik
    Maybe Vancouver has interest in zucker? again just speculation but he has lways had strong play driving numbers and Vancouver is actually getting an analytics department. I feel like Zucker needs a change and hopefully could return to form.

    Again this sounds dumb, but goalies like forsberg have some of those nights where he is lights out. There are always jokes about Toronto getting goalies by sub par goalies, yet it's not untrue. It would be a decent bet though. As you said, he can't be worse than Desmith.

    I'd just never break up a solid top 4. Once you do that, you will always be looking for the next guy for Marino. Might get more than that for him in a trade tbh, big defenseman that can skate, pk and locked in on term aren't easy to get. But I understand the cap of it all.


    I don't see us going after Zucker he is at the point where is value is a negative because of the contract doesn't make sense for us to trade for him
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 4:48 a.m.
    #18
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Dec. 2017
    Posts: 21,491
    Likes: 11,901
    Quoting: Nighthawk
    That Miller package doesn’t get close.


    I agree. With the amount of teams that want Miller someone will offer more.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 8:05 a.m.
    #19
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Apr. 2017
    Posts: 786
    Likes: 207
    Quoting: TraeYoung
    Zucker would be interesting for Vancouver but they are in a cap crunch and his extra year of term doesn’t help.

    POJ is an interesting partner in concept for Marino which is why I’d be willing to trade Marcus. However, it’s a limited sample size and his lack of experience could hurt in the postseason. Josh Yohe of The Athletic also reported today that Hextall isn’t enamored with POJ and would be willing to move him. JR traded for him so that could be interesting although they don’t need LD!


    Appreciate the detailed replies, good thread
    TraeYoung liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 8:09 a.m.
    #20
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Apr. 2017
    Posts: 786
    Likes: 207
    Quoting: theleano1
    I don't see us going after Zucker he is at the point where is value is a negative because of the contract doesn't make sense for us to trade for him


    It probably wouldn't happen, but it depends how much they sell off ie boeser, Garland, some defense. Zucker is the kind of player that has a come back year on a new team and is sold of for picks. Now, they would have to pay to get rid of him 100%
    TraeYoung liked this.
    Feb. 24, 2022 at 8:12 a.m.
    #21
    PDG over PDO
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Feb. 2020
    Posts: 4,978
    Likes: 4,046
    Quoting: In_it_to_winnik
    It probably wouldn't happen, but it depends how much they sell off ie boeser, Garland, some defense. Zucker is the kind of player that has a come back year on a new team and is sold of for picks. Now, they would have to pay to get rid of him 100%


    i honestly doubt Boeser or Garland get dealt but if they do trade one it will more than likely be only one tbh, i think in Both a Boeser and Garland trade you try and get a young top 4 RHD and a middle 6 winger, to replace the other moved assets, wouldn't be shocked if they took a run at foresberg in the case, i think your right when you say it will take a cost to move Zucker i just don't think Van is the team to take that risk
    TraeYoung liked this.
     
    Reply
    To create a post please Login or Register
    Question:
    Options:
    Add Option
    Submit Poll