Forums/Armchair-GM

Just be done with it

Created by: cheeky3468
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 2, 2022
Published: Mar. 2, 2022
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Hagel, Brandon
CHI
  1. Abramov, Mikhail
  2. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
2.
TOR
  1. Mayfield, Scott
NYI
  1. Kase, Ondrej
  2. Rubins, Kristians
  3. 2023 2nd round pick (TOR)
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$78,004,783$0$400,000$3,495,217
Left WingCenterRight Wing
Logo of the TOR
Bunting, Michael
$950,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,640,250
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the CHI
Hagel, Brandon
$1,500,000
LW, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$1,250,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Kämpf, David
$1,500,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
$900,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Spezza, Jason
$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
$796,667
LW
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the NYI
Mayfield, Scott
$1,450,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Mrázek, Petr
$3,800,000
G
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the TOR
Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Campbell, Jack
$1,650,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
$894,167
LD
RFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Lyubushkin, Ilya
$1,350,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Dermott, Travis
$1,500,000
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
$863,333
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3

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Mar. 2 at 2:35 p.m.
#26
Jones is Underpaid
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We're not giving you Hagel unless Knies is involved. I don't care if you don't value him at that. We value him more than you do. You don't like it? Too bad so sad, cry about it.
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Mar. 2 at 2:35 p.m.
#27
F KD
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Quoting: cheeky3468
His value is around is around a first and prospect, maybe an additional later pick like goodrow. Not a top prospect and first.


Chicago's price is a 1st and a top prospect, If no teams pays up, Chicago happily keep Hagel. Let me just remind you Chicago doesn't want to trade him, it's other teams looking to acquire him.
Mar. 2 at 2:36 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Lenny7
Sorry, should have elaborated.

At the time, Foote was 6th months removed from being a 1st round pick, was coming off of a solid WJC with Canada, and had put up good numbers in Kelowna. The "recent 1st round pick" thing was a pretty solid base here.

If you were doing something comparable, it'd be something along the lines of 1st+Knies+4th?

Edit: Plus, Hagel has an extra year.


and thats an overpay, if thats the case leafs should sell high on bunting, causes hes better and should get more. can you imagine the backlash leaf fans would get if they were suggest michael butning was worth all that and more?
Mar. 2 at 2:36 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Wadejos123
No, wrong. The talk is that the hawks have turned down 4 offers for a 1st and a top prospect. The teams reported to have made offers were the Leafs, Panthers, Devils, and Flames. Hawks likley have already turned down an offer better than this from the leafs


Who are the insiders reporting that Chicago has turned down 4 offers including a first and A prospect?
Mar. 2 at 2:37 p.m.
#30
exo2769
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Quoting: Wadejos123
Coleman at 1.8M x 2 with UFA expiration <<<<<<< Hagel at 1.5M x 3 with RFA expiration


Coleman was also 27 where Hagel is 23...MUCH higher ceiling on a 23 year old kid vs a guy in his prime. Especially considering Hagel production is currently greater than Coleman's was at the time.

What I would tell TOR fans to think about is. How much is Bunting worth to TOR? Now imagine you had Bunting for an extra year...and THEN an RFA.
Mar. 2 at 2:37 p.m.
#31
Daddy
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Quoting: exo2769
That's your opinion which is fine. The point is CHI doesn't really want to trade him. THAT's why it costs so much. If you want to take a piece away from a team that doesn't really want to lose....you pay through the nose. Not just a late 1st and B prospect. The trade above is what AZ is looking for....for Crouse!


That's it right here. They have no reason to move him. Cost controlled young winger who seems to be getting better and better constantly.
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Mar. 2 at 2:37 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: Wadejos123
Coleman at 1.8M x 2 with UFA expiration <<<<<<< Hagel at 1.5M x 3 with RFA expiration


coleman also had much more experience with 2 20 goal years under his belt, lets not move the goal posts
Mar. 2 at 2:38 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: exo2769
Coleman was also 27 where Hagel is 23...MUCH higher ceiling on a 23 year old kid vs a guy in his prime. Especially considering Hagel production is currently greater than Coleman's was at the time.

What I would tell TOR fans to think about is. How much is Bunting worth to TOR? Now imagine you had Bunting for an extra year...and THEN an RFA.


buntings better
Mar. 2 at 2:39 p.m.
#34
exo2769
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Quoting: vr1995
coleman also had much more experience with 2 20 goal years under his belt, lets not move the goal posts


Coleman was 27 and in his prime. Hagel has the same production as Coleman, but it's his 2nd year in the NHL and he's 23. Much higher ceiling.
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Mar. 2 at 2:39 p.m.
#35
Lenny7
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Quoting: Wadejos123
Coleman at 1.8M x 2 with UFA expiration <<<<<<< Hagel at 1.5M x 3 with RFA expiration


I mean, I'm on your side here, but I also don't think you can skip over the possession numbers. I also have a hard time buying a 21% shooting percentage. But, yes, the Hagel package should be similar.
Mar. 2 at 2:40 p.m.
#36
exo2769
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Quoting: vr1995
buntings better


Bunting plays with Matthews and Marner. It's a HELL of a top line. Make no mistake about it. BUT...The Hawks don't have a Matthews and Hagel only partially plays with Kane.
Mar. 2 at 2:43 p.m.
#37
Daddy
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This is a dumb debate lol. Obviously Chicago is asking for more then what he's worth, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO REASON TO MOVE HIM. There is nothing more to it. We can compare him to Bunting, Coleman, etc. all day but Chicago is asking for more then the Leafs would be willing to give up, which is fine, as it would be great to have him, but he's doesn't take care of the Leaf's needs.
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Mar. 2 at 2:43 p.m.
#38
Jones is Underpaid
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Quoting: cheeky3468
Who are the insiders reporting that Chicago has turned down 4 offers including a first and A prospect?


The A-Prospect part is not correct, but Frank Seravelli has reported offers of a 1st and prospect (make of that what you will).

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2022/02/nhl-rumors-blackhawks-rejecting-big.html
Mar. 2 at 2:44 p.m.
#39
Jones is Underpaid
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Quoting: AustonMatthews3443
This is a dumb debate lol. Obviously Chicago is asking for more then what he's worth, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO REASON TO MOVE HIM. There is nothing more to it.


Thank you. If some people could understand this, we wouldn't even need to have this conversation.
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Mar. 2 at 2:45 p.m.
#40
exo2769
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Quoting: Nqutilus
Thank you. If some people could understand this, we wouldn't even need to have this conversation.


But it's fun, no?
Mar. 2 at 2:45 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: exo2769
Coleman was 27 and in his prime. Hagel has the same production as Coleman, but it's his 2nd year in the NHL and he's 23. Much higher ceiling.


He has no history, this could be a complete one off for him.
Mar. 2 at 2:46 p.m.
#42
Jones is Underpaid
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Quoting: exo2769
But it's fun, no?


I mean it gets kinda annoying after a while.
Mar. 2 at 2:46 p.m.
#43
Leafs Sufferer
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Quoting: exo2769
But it's fun, no?


Not when you have the same conversation over...and over....and over......


And over again.
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Mar. 2 at 2:47 p.m.
#44
exo2769
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Quoting: cheeky3468
He has no history, this could be a complete one off for him.


If you think he sucks then don't trade for him. BUT, you know better than that. It's why you traded for him.
Mar. 2 at 2:48 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: vr1995
im ok with that, you know its not my offer right? to suggest it will need one of our best prospects and a first rounder to pry a former 6th rounder who plays on your 3rd line is ridiculous lmao


Well he plays in our top 6 most of the season. Hawks don't have the offensive power to have true loaded lineup, so there has been a lot of shuffling from loading the top line to spreading the best players among the top 9 to give balance depending on matchup. However, when it comes down to the last 2 minutes of the game and Hawks are behind, you almost always see Kane, Cat and Hagel being on the ice the most mixed in a top 6 role.

That said, is Hagel worth a 1st and top prospect in isolation, no, but all we know is the hawks have declined at least 3 offers from teams that included a 1st and a good prospect and since they have no reason to trade hagel, the price is only dependent on what the Hawks will accept and 1 GM willing to give up not what fans or the market thinks he's worth.
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Mar. 2 at 2:48 p.m.
#46
Daddy
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Quoting: Ritzy
Not when you have the same conversation over...and over....and over......


And over again.


Yeah part of having a convo is understanding the other persons point lol, which just isn't happening here.
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Mar. 2 at 2:49 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: exo2769
Coleman was also 27 where Hagel is 23...MUCH higher ceiling on a 23 year old kid vs a guy in his prime. Especially considering Hagel production is currently greater than Coleman's was at the time.

What I would tell TOR fans to think about is. How much is Bunting worth to TOR? Now imagine you had Bunting for an extra year...and THEN an RFA.


It's also worth noting Coleman was only under contract for 1 more year and more expensive then a UFA....it's a horrible comparison in value.
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Mar. 2 at 2:56 p.m.
#48
Lenny7
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Quoting: vr1995
and thats an overpay, if thats the case leafs should sell high on bunting, causes hes better and should get more. can you imagine the backlash leaf fans would get if they were suggest michael butning was worth all that and more?


I mean, if you're into prospects and picks more than actual wins, then sure, listen on Bunting. Guaranteed someone would absolutely send a solid package for him. Two playoff runs for under a mil? Sign me up. On here? Sure, you'd take some flack because large fan bases on here typically shoot for the moon when it comes to trading players, and people would likely get tired of the 45 "Bunting for a boatload" trades a day(See: Chiarot), but yes, a contending team would (should) offer a similar package for Bunting that a Hagel-type will command.

If I'm Chicago, I'm selling high on the 21% shooting percentage that is grossly unsustainable, but, given that he's pretty solid, cheap, etc., there's also no reason to just move him for the sake of moving him.

Circling back...main thing to remember here is that prospects and picks are for peasants. Not teams that have Stanley Cup aspirations. Tampa realized this, which is why they continue to be dominant. They got their core in place (Which the Leafs have done), continued to scout well in later rounds (Something that the Leafs *seem* to be doing), and snag a lot of undrafted kids out of the CHL to take a chance on. I get that prospecting is entertaining, but flags fly forever, dude.
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Mar. 2 at 3:08 p.m.
#49
Lenny7
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Well he plays in our top 6 most of the season. Hawks don't have the offensive power to have true loaded lineup, so there has been a lot of shuffling from loading the top line to spreading the best players among the top 9 to give balance depending on matchup. However, when it comes down to the last 2 minutes of the game and Hawks are behind, you almost always see Kane, Cat and Hagel being on the ice the most mixed in a top 6 role.

That said, is Hagel worth a 1st and top prospect in isolation, no, but all we know is the hawks have declined at least 3 offers from teams that included a 1st and a good prospect and since they have no reason to trade hagel, the price is only dependent on what the Hawks will accept and 1 GM willing to give up not what fans or the market thinks he's worth.


I feel like this part is the part that just gets lost here all of the time. Trading players just for the sake of trading them is a pretty rare thing in the NHL. If someone comes along and makes you an offer that you can't refuse (I'd personally take a 1st+Knies, but I'm also not a Hawks fan) then sure, take it. If not, why do it?
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Mar. 2 at 3:08 p.m.
#50
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Quoting: vr1995
coleman also had much more experience with 2 20 goal years under his belt, lets not move the goal posts


Hagel has been in the league less than 2 years
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