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Unrestricted Free Agent discussion

Should all UFAs hit the open market even if there are talks of resigning them?
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Apr. 17, 2017 at 1:49 p.m.
#1
Hardcore Sabres fan
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Tell me what you think.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 1:56 p.m.
#2
NBABound
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Read my post in the main thread for an idea.


Idk why this is even a discussion. All UFA's should hit the open market like they usually do. We should set a specific date. If in real life they sign before that, then they stay with that team.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:03 p.m.
#3
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I don't understand why this is even a question for starters.

"Should our GM decisions be dependent on what the team does in real life?"
No.

Poll question is poorly phrased btw.
"Should they hit the market if they haven't signed with their team in real life?"
If they don't sign with their team in real life, of course they hit the market. Sticking Out Tongue

I know what you mean, but I guarantee that some people won't understand.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:07 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: ricochetii
I don't understand why this is even a question for starters.

"Should our GM decisions be dependent on what the team does in real life?"
No.

Poll question is poorly phrased btw.
"Should they hit the market if they haven't signed with their team in real life?"
If they don't sign with their team in real life, of course they hit the market. Sticking Out Tongue

I know what you mean, but I guarantee that some people won't understand.


I have a feeling I know who that someone is...
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:10 p.m.
#5
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Why does people think that a team has rights when it comes to UFAs? They are called 'Unrestricted Free Agents' for a reason.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:16 p.m.
#6
alwaysnextyear
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Quoting: Zach
Why does people think that a team has rights when it comes to UFAs? They are called 'Unrestricted Free Agents' for a reason.


Well a team does own that player's rights to exclusively negotiate a new contract until July 1st. In real life all of the leverage is with the player in question because they decide whether they'd like to stay with their current team or test FA waters. We don't have the player's opinions to worry about in our little game.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:19 p.m.
#7
alwaysnextyear
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I just posted this idea in rangersandislefan's thread, but it's much more appropriate here;

I feel like teams should be able to re-sign their UFA's-to-be right now if they still own their rights, just like in real life. We can treat it just like RFA signings in that the contracts have to be realistic as judged by other members, but if another member says they would bid higher on July 1st then that player could potentially go to free agency.

We could have a "Pending UFA Signings" thread where everyone can look at the offers on the table from a UFA's current teams and decide whether or not they would outbid the offer. If ,within two weeks of the post, another member says they'll beat an offer by more than say 10% of it's value, that player automatically goes to free agency. This would allow a number of players to be re-signed earlier by their parent team if noboby else wants to beat the original offers.

Just a thought.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:36 p.m.
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Good idea guys. We need to hash out all the details of UFA's, expansion draft, etc now before people get pissed because something isn't crystal clear yet.

When it comes to UFA - I'm all for any new ideas but I mentioned an important thing to rangerislesfan, he has a conflict of interest when it comes to having any say in whether a player he wants to sign si signed by another team being that he is like a moderator and a team GM. Technically we all do if its regarding a player of interest too. Nobody in the Game should be able to decide whether a contract is fair or not. Unless its an RFA in which the teams still has all the rights anyway.

We need an independent arbitrator if you will. There shouldn't be any problem resigning a pending UFA if the independent source thinks its fair. The thing is though, is the example of Tavares, there is plausible belief that he wants out of NY but won't risk making it public due to being called a traitor, quitter, etc, so he'll take it all the way to free agency even if he knows he won't sign with them. In this specific case, I think we'd need an idea of how to regulate this cuz if Im Tavares, I don't care if you offer me market value, I would want out of NYI. So thats where it gets tricky. Most players are just happy with a good contract but the elite want more than that.


Also what happens if 5 teams offer the exact same contract? What If i offer 6 years @ 5M and someone else 5 years @ 6M? Who wins the argument? Both have valid reasons.

RFA's can be resigned whenever. There shouldn't be a problem with that. I would ask one thing instead of the traditional yay or nay approvals though. If you resign a player you need to have comparables stated to back it up. Similar players signed to similar contracts. Otherwise a bunch GMs on here might think signing McDavid to a 5MX8 year contract makes sense for all we know. Think your contract is fair?, prove it. Give a backup to your claim.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:38 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: alwaysnextyear
I just posted this idea in rangersandislefan's thread, but it's much more appropriate here;

I feel like teams should be able to re-sign their UFA's-to-be right now if they still own their rights, just like in real life. We can treat it just like RFA signings in that the contracts have to be realistic as judged by other members, but if another member says they would bid higher on July 1st then that player could potentially go to free agency.

We could have a "Pending UFA Signings" thread where everyone can look at the offers on the table from a UFA's current teams and decide whether or not they would outbid the offer. If ,within two weeks of the post, another member says they'll beat an offer by more than say 10% of it's value, that player automatically goes to free agency. This would allow a number of players to be re-signed earlier by their parent team if noboby else wants to beat the original offers.

Just a thought.


That's an idea worth considering. It could at least get the lesser free agents out of the way.
I don't think there is anyone particularly interested in signing Tinordi for example, and I don't have any interest in signing Bobby Farnham, so it's possible those players could be signed earlier.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:46 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_cap
Read my post in the main thread for an idea.


Idk why this is even a discussion. All UFA's should hit the open market like they usually do. We should set a specific date. If in real life they sign before that, then they stay with that team.


But what if contract rights got traded in our game?
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:52 p.m.
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Quoting: F50marco
Also what happens if 5 teams offer the exact same contract? What If i offer 6 years @ 5M and someone else 5 years @ 6M? Who wins the argument? Both have valid reasons.


The idea I had for that is players below a certain age prefer term, while players above a certain age prefer AAV.
Not sure where I'd place the cutoff point, but maybe start at 30 and work from there.

Players under 25 years of age are normally RFA and often go through at least one bridge deal, sometimes 2 or 3.
Once they are a year or two away from UFA status, they are likely to sign a long term deal between 5 and 8 years.
Once a player hits around age 32/33 as a UFA, team will prefer to avoid term and increase AAV as incentive instead.
After 35, 1 or 2 years should be the maximum term, but there are often exceptions for superstar players (3 or 4 years maybe).

The principle is that the older a player is, the more short term contracts they are likely to get, so they will prefer higher AAV. Maximizing their earning power in the time they have.

Just some rough ideas we might be able to tweak for our purposes.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 2:58 p.m.
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: Mr_cap
Read my post in the main thread for an idea.


Idk why this is even a discussion. All UFA's should hit the open market like they usually do. We should set a specific date. If in real life they sign before that, then they stay with that team.


But what if contract rights got traded in our game?


Exactly, or what if I resign Jagr to a 650K contract and state he loves Florida and doesn't want to leave so he'll take dirt cheap for the benefit of the team? That exaggerated of course but when it gets a bit more realistic it gets tricky.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:00 p.m.
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Quoting: alwaysnextyear
Quoting: Zach
Why does people think that a team has rights when it comes to UFAs? They are called 'Unrestricted Free Agents' for a reason.


Well a team does own that player's rights to exclusively negotiate a new contract until July 1st. In real life all of the leverage is with the player in question because they decide whether they'd like to stay with their current team or test FA waters. We don't have the player's opinions to worry about in our little game.


Exactly. If the players personality is removed from the equation, than resigning any player is easy. We'll never have any good UFA's on the market because the team will just continuously resign them for the sake of trading him for value back. Free agency would be even more boring than it already has become in real life. I'd resign every single one of my UFA's, even just to bury them in the minors so i could trade them for a draft pick later.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:02 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_cap
Read my post in the main thread for an idea.


Idk why this is even a discussion. All UFA's should hit the open market like they usually do. We should set a specific date. If in real life they sign before that, then they stay with that team.


This could work. It would depend on the date i guess. It would have to be pretty close to the actual JUly 1st date IMO.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:16 p.m.
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Honestly the easiest way, since this is basically just fantasy hockey, is to make every UFA go into free agency. No team owns any rights to UFA but the team can see the bids coming on for their former players. That will give them an edge if they want to pay up to re-sign their guy. Best contract wins. Ties can be broken by a bid off. The tied players put forth their best offer and winner takes all, chances of another tie are slim.

We have the forms already mocked up, people just need to set up thwir own sheet for their teams UFAs.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:29 p.m.
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Honestly the easiest way, since this is basically just fantasy hockey, is to make every UFA go into free agency. No team owns any rights to UFA but the team can see the bids coming on for their former players. That will give them an edge if they want to pay up to re-sign their guy. Best contract wins. Ties can be broken by a bid off. The tied players put forth their best offer and winner takes all, chances of another tie are slim.

We have the forms already mocked up, people just need to set up thwir own sheet for their teams UFAs.


Who decides on secondary factors though? 5X6 or 6X5 scenario. What about Washington who was planning on resigning Shattenkirk before free agency? They get kind of screwed now don't they? Also if we decide this now, teams who traded for pending UFA's in a year are pissed too because they were under the impression that they could resign these players before hand... but only had reasonable market value to pay them. So if anyone goes slightly overboard, they are essentially screwed either way. people could submit offers they don't intend to keep simply to bring up the value on guys that we know that team really wants to keep at all costs. It may backfire but it may also really help give you cap advantages. Anyways all of these are just food for thought.

but overall this is a good start to a framework for the UFA's.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:35 p.m.
#17
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I think the team that holds rights should be allowed to set the initial price, and be allowed to counter other teams offers (so long as other offers are not ridiculous such as giving TJ Oshie 10 million a year or something). Essentially a highest bidder wins thing, since that generally seems to be how free agency works for most players. Exceptions may have to be made for older players.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:36 p.m.
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Quoting: F50marco
Quoting: DirtyDangles
Honestly the easiest way, since this is basically just fantasy hockey, is to make every UFA go into free agency. No team owns any rights to UFA but the team can see the bids coming on for their former players. That will give them an edge if they want to pay up to re-sign their guy. Best contract wins. Ties can be broken by a bid off. The tied players put forth their best offer and winner takes all, chances of another tie are slim.

We have the forms already mocked up, people just need to set up thwir own sheet for their teams UFAs.


Who decides on secondary factors though? 5X6 or 6X5 scenario. What about Washington who was planning on resigning Shattenkirk before free agency? They get kind of screwed now don't they? Also if we decide this now, teams who traded for pending UFA's in a year are pissed too because they were under the impression that they could resign these players before hand... but only had reasonable market value to pay them. So if anyone goes slightly overboard, they are essentially screwed either way. people could submit offers they don't intend to keep simply to bring up the value on guys that we know that team really wants to keep at all costs. It may backfire but it may also really help give you cap advantages. Anyways all of these are just food for thought.

but overall this is a good start to a framework for the UFA's.


Maybe one of the mods would be the arbitrator? Idk, just an idea.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:49 p.m.
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Well like I said, this is fantasy so tie breakers can have a fire one bullet bid off. As for Washington wanting to sign Shattenkirk, well I guess he better outbid the rest of us. Like I said, he will have the advantage of seeing all bids for Shattenkirk so he can outbid everyone if he really wants to, even if only by $1
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:55 p.m.
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Hi guys, just to clarify here once free agency has come meaning July 1st is not so much the problem as it will basically highest bid wins. Its more what happens right before UFA starts. Example Tavares next year. What if in our game he's automatically sent to free agency but he resigns just before free agency begins in real life. something along those lines....
Apr. 17, 2017 at 3:55 p.m.
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Well like I said, this is fantasy so tie breakers can have a fire one bullet bid off. As for Washington wanting to sign Shattenkirk, well I guess he better outbid the rest of us. Like I said, he will have the advantage of seeing all bids for Shattenkirk so he can outbid everyone if he really wants to, even if only by $1


Hmm yup could work........
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:13 p.m.
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Quoting: F50marco
Hi guys, just to clarify here once free agency has come meaning July 1st is not so much the problem as it will basically highest bid wins. Its more what happens right before UFA starts. Example Tavares next year. What if in our game he's automatically sent to free agency but he resigns just before free agency begins in real life. something along those lines....


Well, nobody should be trading their pending UFAs anyways. As for Tavares, people need to act like he is going to free agency and not that he will re-sign. Therefore, if you trade a ton to get him and he doesn't end up r-signing well that's your own fault.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:18 p.m.
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Quoting: F50marco
Hi guys, just to clarify here once free agency has come meaning July 1st is not so much the problem as it will basically highest bid wins. Its more what happens right before UFA starts. Example Tavares next year. What if in our game he's automatically sent to free agency but he resigns just before free agency begins in real life. something along those lines....


Well, nobody should be trading their pending UFAs anyways. As for Tavares, people need to act like he is going to free agency and not that he will re-sign. Therefore, if you trade a ton to get him and he doesn't end up r-signing well that's your own fault.


Hmm ok as long as we're all good with that because if I'm rangersislesfan, I'm pissed hearing that because that almost surely means I will either lose Tavares for nothing, pay way more then necessary to keep him or trade him for way less than he'd be worth IRL, right now just to make sure I get something for him.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:23 p.m.
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Well it is impossible to do it exactly like real life since there is no player to think for himself. So I think the way I laid it out works well. Sure, he might have to pay a ton for Tavares but in reality, Tavares is worth a ton so either you pay up or let him walk. Real GMs have to make those decisions all the time and build their team accordingly.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:28 p.m.
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Four standard

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Four Team are good are not

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