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One trade for now and future

Created by: nabnuke
Team: 2021-22 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 4, 2022
Published: Mar. 4, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I think the team is solid, but could use a couple upgrades. The time to win is now. We also need to clear some cap space to resign Malkin, Letang and Rust.
I feel like this trade will give them cap space to do that and theoretically gives Arizona additional items to do this deal.
Trades
ARI
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Matheson, Michael
  3. Poulin, Samuel
  4. Zucker, Jason
  5. 2022 1st round pick (PIT)
  6. 2023 2nd round pick (PIT)
  7. 2024 3rd round pick (PIT)
Buyouts
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
2023
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the TOR
2024
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$79,986,539$0$0$1,513,461
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$1,533,333$1,533,333
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$9,500,000$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,750,000$2,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,636,364$2,636,364
RW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$6,800,000$6,800,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,725,000$1,725,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Arizona Coyotes
$4,600,000$4,600,000
LD/RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$3,500,000$3,500,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,400,000$4,400,000
RD
UFA - 6
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$1,250,000$1,250,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$4,025,175$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$725,000$725,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$2,200,000$2,200,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Pittsburgh Penguins
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1

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Mar. 4, 2022 at 11:51 a.m.
#1
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I don’t think Arizona accepts
Mar. 4, 2022 at 11:56 a.m.
#2
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Arizona 100% declines, Pittsburgh doesn't have the pieces that Bill Armstrong would want for Jakob Chychrun.
Mar. 4, 2022 at 11:59 a.m.
#3
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I think you need to throw more sweetening in there to get Arizona to bite. Zucker and Kessel are analogous in this trade as older wingers with high AAVs - arguably, Arizona gets a worse asset considering Zucker has more term (even at a lower AAV, Zucker's salary is higher this year + he's got another year of term at $5.5AAV/$5.2 actual cash.) With Matheson, I get that he becomes expendable once Chychrun shows up, but I think you'd be better off flipping him (or one of the other LD making $4M+) somewhere else instead of watering down your return here. Matheson is 28 and signed for 4 more years after this one at $4.875M, he's not a guy that moves the needle for Arizona in terms of what they're looking for.

I think the biggest issue is that Arizona is trading guys because they're trying to be cheap as hell while still being cap compliant, and this goes against that. There are plenty of Zucker-like contracts that the Coyotes can take on with picks attached instead, while getting a Poulin+1+2++ package for Chychurn - alone. Adding Crouse means you'd have to add more.
Mar. 4, 2022 at 12:06 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: dannibalcorpse
I think you need to throw more sweetening in there to get Arizona to bite. Zucker and Kessel are analogous in this trade as older wingers with high AAVs - arguably, Arizona gets a worse asset considering Zucker has more term (even at a lower AAV, Zucker's salary is higher this year + he's got another year of term at $5.5AAV/$5.2 actual cash.) With Matheson, I get that he becomes expendable once Chychrun shows up, but I think you'd be better off flipping him (or one of the other LD making $4M+) somewhere else instead of watering down your return here. Matheson is 28 and signed for 4 more years after this one at $4.875M, he's not a guy that moves the needle for Arizona in terms of what they're looking for.

I think the biggest issue is that Arizona is trading guys because they're trying to be cheap as hell while still being cap compliant, and this goes against that. There are plenty of Zucker-like contracts that the Coyotes can take on with picks attached instead, while getting a Poulin+1+2++ package for Chychurn - alone. Adding Crouse means you'd have to add more.


The coyotes need players with term. No one wants to play there lol. Zucker isn’t a cap dump either. Plus Arizona needs to get to the cap floor. He’s also a good trade candidate at next years deadline. Zucker is definitely a better asset than Kessel. This isn’t exactly Kessel from 5-6 years ago
Mar. 4, 2022 at 12:35 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Pensfan89
The coyotes need players with term. No one wants to play there lol. Zucker isn’t a cap dump either. Plus Arizona needs to get to the cap floor. He’s also a good trade candidate at next years deadline. Zucker is definitely a better asset than Kessel. This isn’t exactly Kessel from 5-6 years ago


Yeah but they can get there in much better ways than this.

Kessel at 50% retention gets them a a 3rd this year.

There are plenty of teams that will be looking to dump a contract like Zucker's (in that $4-6M AAV range) that will attach a 2nd round pick to it.

Kapanen comes in at $3.2M this year and will probably cost about the same next year; I could see Arizona working a deal that's Lawson Crouse for Kapanen+a pick or prospect.

So what you're left with is Chychrun for Matheson/Poulin/1/2/3. Matheson's contract has value but I think Arizona would rather sign veterans on shorter, higher AAV contracts. Matheson from ages 29-33 at $4.875M doesn't really fit Arizona's timeline, so I can't see them counting him as a hugely valuable asset for the Coyotes. Poulin & the picks are fine but I just see another team offering a similar prospect & 2 1sts and outbidding this deal easily.
Mar. 4, 2022 at 12:50 p.m.
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Quoting: dannibalcorpse
Yeah but they can get there in much better ways than this.

Kessel at 50% retention gets them a a 3rd this year.

There are plenty of teams that will be looking to dump a contract like Zucker's (in that $4-6M AAV range) that will attach a 2nd round pick to it.

Kapanen comes in at $3.2M this year and will probably cost about the same next year; I could see Arizona working a deal that's Lawson Crouse for Kapanen+a pick or prospect.

So what you're left with is Chychrun for Matheson/Poulin/1/2/3. Matheson's contract has value but I think Arizona would rather sign veterans on shorter, higher AAV contracts. Matheson from ages 29-33 at $4.875M doesn't really fit Arizona's timeline, so I can't see them counting him as a hugely valuable asset for the Coyotes. Poulin & the picks are fine but I just see another team offering a similar prospect & 2 1sts and outbidding this deal easily.


They’ve been trying to trade Kessel 50% retained for a 3rd and no one is biting. I don’t think they get more than maybe a 4th for him.

None of those players will be as good as Zucker. The benefit of Zucker over those guys is that they could easily flip him for at least a 2nd next deadline by retaining 50%, if not more. The guy is a great locker room guy and always gives 110%. If he isn’t scoring he is doing everything else at least. He’d be a great leader for a young team. I’m not sure many vets would sign with Arizona.
Matheson again has positive value and someone they can eventually flip. He may not fit their timeline but again, they will need big contracts with term to get to the cap floor. It’s better to take value pieces as opposed to cap dumps.
Mar. 4, 2022 at 1:04 p.m.
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we miss leo k
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Quoting: Pensfan89
They’ve been trying to trade Kessel 50% retained for a 3rd and no one is biting. I don’t think they get more than maybe a 4th for him.

None of those players will be as good as Zucker. The benefit of Zucker over those guys is that they could easily flip him for at least a 2nd next deadline by retaining 50%, if not more. The guy is a great locker room guy and always gives 110%. If he isn’t scoring he is doing everything else at least. He’d be a great leader for a young team. I’m not sure many vets would sign with Arizona.
Matheson again has positive value and someone they can eventually flip. He may not fit their timeline but again, they will need big contracts with term to get to the cap floor. It’s better to take value pieces as opposed to cap dumps.


They're still going to get better value shopping them separately than doing this deal.

Chychurn gets a 1st, 2nd, and strong prospect.

Let's say Crouse would swap for a guy like Kapanen(last years of RFA, $3ishM AAV, change of scenery kind of guy) & a 3rd.

We'll make up a cap dump named Andrew Eriksson that has one year left at $5.5M and gets traded to Arizona with a 2nd rounder attached.

And we'll give them a 4th for Kessel.

So in this scenario, they've moved out Kessel, Crouse, & Chychurn and received back a 1st, 2 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, a good prospect, a Kapanen-type, and some sort of veteran cap dump.

OP has a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a good prospect (Poulin), a Kapanen-type(the original, in fact!), Mike Matheson, and Jason Zucker.

Zucker might be better than our made up guy, but you're saying that they could easily flip him for a 2nd next year. Our made up cap dump already came with a 2nd, so what's the difference to the Coyotes? His intangibles are nice, sure, but at the end of the day Arizona is looking for picks and the outcome is the same, except they run the risk of Zucker getting hurt and having to hang on to him through the end of his contract and getting nothing of value back(a small chance, but still possible!)

Matheson does have positive value! But with 4 years @ $4.875M, he's not a guy you can flip that easily in a flat-cap (or even in a $1M extra/year cap) league. Arizona could easily grab a UFA like PK Subban and give them 1 year at $5.5M to help get to the cap floor and flip him at the deadline for a pick, then do the same thing each offseason until they're ready to contend. It's cynical as hell, sure, but we all know a pending UFA is going to be easier to move at the deadline than a guy with multiple years left with at nearly $5M.

It's not like this is an objectively terrible proposal, I just think that if Pittsburgh wants all 3 of Arizona's big trade chips, they'll have to offer more, because the Coyotes will get more by trading them off individually. It's not Costco, you don't get a discount for shopping in bulk at the deadline.
Mar. 4, 2022 at 6:57 p.m.
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Quoting: dannibalcorpse
They're still going to get better value shopping them separately than doing this deal.

Chychurn gets a 1st, 2nd, and strong prospect.

Let's say Crouse would swap for a guy like Kapanen(last years of RFA, $3ishM AAV, change of scenery kind of guy) & a 3rd.

We'll make up a cap dump named Andrew Eriksson that has one year left at $5.5M and gets traded to Arizona with a 2nd rounder attached.

And we'll give them a 4th for Kessel.

So in this scenario, they've moved out Kessel, Crouse, & Chychurn and received back a 1st, 2 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, a good prospect, a Kapanen-type, and some sort of veteran cap dump.

OP has a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a good prospect (Poulin), a Kapanen-type(the original, in fact!), Mike Matheson, and Jason Zucker.

Zucker might be better than our made up guy, but you're saying that they could easily flip him for a 2nd next year. Our made up cap dump already came with a 2nd, so what's the difference to the Coyotes? His intangibles are nice, sure, but at the end of the day Arizona is looking for picks and the outcome is the same, except they run the risk of Zucker getting hurt and having to hang on to him through the end of his contract and getting nothing of value back(a small chance, but still possible!)

Matheson does have positive value! But with 4 years $4.875M, he's not a guy you can flip that easily in a flat-cap (or even in a $1M extra/year cap) league. Arizona could easily grab a UFA like PK Subban and give them 1 year at $5.5M to help get to the cap floor and flip him at the deadline for a pick, then do the same thing each offseason until they're ready to contend. It's cynical as hell, sure, but we all know a pending UFA is going to be easier to move at the deadline than a guy with multiple years left with at nearly $5M.

It's not like this is an objectively terrible proposal, I just think that if Pittsburgh wants all 3 of Arizona's big trade chips, they'll have to offer more, because the Coyotes will get more by trading them off individually. It's not Costco, you don't get a discount for shopping in bulk at the deadline.


Well they could take on a cap dump with a 2nd round pick in either scenario so that’s irrelevant. I actually assume they will do that to trade guys like beagle and Larsson. Take on a 2-3 year cap dump with a 2nd for beagle and/or Larsson.
So in your scenario they don’t really get more, even if you include the cap dump for a 2nd.
In your scenario they get a top prospect, a 1st, two 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and a change of scenery player while also taking on a cap dump.
In this scenario they get a top prospect, a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a change of scenery RFA player, a middle 6 winger that could easily bring in at least a 2nd half retained next TDL, and a 2nd pair LHD that will be there for the next 2-3 years and be flipped for atleast a 4th when he is in his last year or 2.

I’m not saying either they would do this trade. It’s not like they are in a rush to trade Chychrun or Crouse. They can wait til next year for them and just trade Kessel tbh. But this is a fair deal and I don’t think it would get out beat this year with how the market has played out so far.
 
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