Hi all,

Ok so now that I think we're done discussing if rangersandislesfan could use an assistant commissioner/committee to help him out or not, lets try this instead and try to put things into motion before key parts of the game get going.



I have some points that I think rangersandislesfan needs to look into further because the logic behind it now, has some issues with it. These are what I have right now and personally I think there is some sound logic to why they need to happen. Feel free to chime in with other ideas and comments.


Expansion trades/selections - There is literally no reason for not being able to make "unofficial" agreements already. Nothing. I get the reasoning if this were real life and we didn't want the players finding out ahead of time but this is a game with fake players lives at stake. Essentially all we're doing is making agreements which can only be officially made once expansion comes. The thing is, so we don't have to keep track of all those "talks" we've had, we're stating them in a thread. Even in real life, Bettman can't control the game to the point that GM's can't talk about it and make side deals that both GM's have agreed upon.

Expansion date - The date listed is April 25th I think?........what purpose does this serve but to only speed up the game for no reason? I strongly suggest changing the date to the actual date of the expansion draft or better yet, maybe a week before the real thing. That way we can figure out what we're doing with all the other rules that need addressing like inactive Gm's and such before figuring out whether we should protect certain players and/or modeling our team the way we like.

Free agency - This one is a hot topic and I bring it up NOT because it really affects me. To be honest i'm safe from free agency as it won't even effect me that much. I speak for those who traded for players rights already only to find out that a player they previously traded for will go to free agency automatically and that the only advantage you'll have is to be able to match + 100K the highest bid which so far is the best option but lets face it one of is going to over bid a player because of need, where in real life that Gm would of been able to resign that player ahead of free agency........rico brought up some good ideas but I agree some of them are complicated and we need to make it easier for everyone. My major problem is that the somewhat finalized rules for free agency should have been made prior to everyone making trades! The bidding concept needs tweaking also as it was barely though out in the first place and their were plenty of kinks that needed to be addressed before GM's started making moves for UFA's and expansion.

Unofficial trades vs official trades - Who cares this changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. Whether myself and Zach make a trade in principle and then write it down on a piece of paper or a forum thread, it changes nothing. All the trades are official if both parties agree to it. Whether you want to make it official or not on a thread serves very little purpose. When millions of dollars are at stake and people life's too, then you can start cracking the whip about things being official and unofficial but in this game, so far at least it's only making things more complicated.

Entry draft date and method - Once again this is a pretty big event that needs to be hashed out. I don't see why we have to do this earlier then the actual thing either. A week before the real thing only benefits everyone. Doing it earlier means things can happen in the real world that could influence ppl's perception of that player in our game. Example, I select Nick Suzuki with my draft pick now and then later in the summer before the draft, he's diagnosed with cancer (yes i know its an exaggeration, its only to prove my point). Now I have a player I could of avoided had we waited and I can't even trade him to recoup assets or anything. Having the entry draft now, serves no purpose. I know everyone is giddy about the game and wants to start doing all the task a GM does but one of those tasks is being patient and thinking things out before doing them.

Inactive GM's - I agree with rangersandislesfan, we shouldn't be too hasty with booting people from the game but at the same time if dates for key events have been set so soon, the decisions on whether to replace GM's with new people has to be done faster too. It sucks but its only a rush because of the time frames for other things. I agree with him people shouldn't have to be on the site every 2 seconds before being kicked out. Hence why I think we're going too fast with this game with scheduling events. There really isn't any need for it and it would give the current GM's time to make smart calculated moves, rather than have 50 people blast his thread with trade offers for a player and feel pressured into trading them or miss out on a deal because half the league has traded their entire team twice over already by the time he was able to log back on.... On a side note, I think that if we're replacing inactive GM's, that assistant GM's be given first "dibs" on the new positions. As in real life, it only makes sense for them to be next in line and they've proven that they are willing to take certain level of seriousness to the game that is needed for it too work for everyone.




Lastly, because it should be said and I think we all agree on this one subject for 100% sure, thanks rangerandislesfan for creating an awesome game! Amazing idea!

Now that we've got that out of the way.... let's see if you can make it even better!

Cheers!

I wouldn't want to fire anyone except we might need to with the Expansion draft coming up soon. We'll see in the next few days. And i thought you all wanted to do the expansion draft now? Because Vegas keeps trying to make expansion picks already. And the unofficial trades are just this thing that i actually didn't create. It just means they are very close on a trade but it hasn't happened yet. To make a trade official, both GMs must agree.

If you're talking about the trade thread...

I don't think anyone wants to fire anyone. Its only brought up now because of the strict time frame we have to do things. If the Nashville Gm for example doesn't do anything through the expansion draft, entry draft and free agency then he really hasn't contributed anything to this game and has wasted what could of been someone else's job who is itching for the opportunity.

Once again so we're clear, the only reason making a decision on inactive GM's is somewhat important now is because key events in the game are coming up like the expansion draft, etc. if these special events were taking place during the actual time they will in real life, the inactive GM's would have a lot more time to come back on the site and start being active again.

Yeah, Rangers... You need to see who is inactive and do accordingly with them. Unfortunately for them, it's either you need to be somewhat active and acknowledge you're here or whatever, or they need to be removed. You have plenty of interest from people who'd like to take over a team. Do you want 31 teams being run or 20 with 10 sitting ducks who you don't know whether they're here or not? I'd rather have 31....

I've been thinking of this a little bit so here's a few suggestions I have. The ideas may be kind of raw so if we like the concept it'll still need to be refined.

Expansion: we make an inactivity cutoff for Nashville and Dallas on April 25th (original planned expansion date). If they're not on by then, they will need to be demoted. Instead of firing them, we appoint an interim gm who is currently an assistant and has the best records of frequent activity. If they return, the formerly inactive gm can serve as co-gm/ assistant. They will not be allowed to be full GM though since there needs to be a penalty for long term inactivity. Exceptions can be made if like in bMans case there was serious personal matters to deal with. In this case we just get a majority of GMs (maybe if we do the subcommittee a 4/7ths vote) to pardon the inactive GM and he will be allowed to resume being head GM. The interim will still serve as their assistant to ensure if they have to take a personal leave again, the assistant can swiftly step in and serve as interim.

If we do this, we can move expansion to may 1. This gives the interim GMs What I was thinking is we make a strictly expansion thread. Teams submit their final expansion protection lists on the expansion thread by May 1. Penalty for not submitting a list by noon EST May 1 can be a 2017 (or nearest year they have a first) first round pick to Vegas. Teams can submit their expansion lists as early as the 25th BUT ONCE A TEAM SUBMITS PROTECTION LIST THEIR ROSTER IS FROZEN UNTIL VEGAS MAKES ITS EXPANSION PICK OFFICIAL. Starting May 1, if Vegas has not already selected a player by trade, they will select players for expansion. They will make picks in order of who submitted expansion lists earliest. The last day expansion picks can be made can be like May 4th. This gives Vegas an ample yet reasonable amount of time to make all their picks that haven't been made yet. If Vegas has not selected a player by noon EST on May 4th, you are not obligated to give Vegas a player (I doubt this will happen, Vegas gm is very active, just wanted to include this just in case). All expansion rules set by the NHL in real life will apply to this game in terms of who can/ can't be picked or exposed/ protected. We can allow teams to send picks to Vegas in order to select or not select a certain player (or a pick to not select a certain group of players). Many teams want to do this now which I'm fine with. I know rangersislesfan has stated his opposition to this under the premise they might want to still move that player in another trade. I counter that if a team wants to commit a player to Vegas this early, and they miss out on moving him in a separate deal, tough luck. The gm already committed the player to Vegas thus that deal must be upheld. This encourages GMs to have freedom of choice but also keeps them honest in terms of accepting the consequences of making an early deal.
I have some other thoughts but don't want to make this post too long so I'll add those later.

I like the idea for what to do with inactive GM's, matt. Think it makes perfect sense but can I ask why you feel having the expansion draft nearly 2 months before the real date is necessary? To be honest I haven't heard a good argument for it yet from anyone other then what I assume is that most of the GM's on here are too impatient and want things to happen now now now!

I'm not saying we should do the expansion draft the exact same day as the real thing. mayeb have it over the span of a week prior to the actual things. June 10th - 17th. I feel people are forgetting that the real playoffs are happening right now. The results of how players do and who wins the cup could change a lot of people's perspectives on guys. I strongly think making all these important dates months in advance is unwise if we want this game to be as accurate as possible.

I don't think we'd be able to move it back more than a week. Most people are already opposed to moving it back from the 25th.

I stopped reading after your free agency. Again you offer no solutions but just voice problems, which doesn't do anything. My suggestion for Free Agency is that we go Alphabetically by team.

So day 1 it's Anaheims UFA's and everyone bids all day on all their ufo's with the starting bid coming from Anaheim. Then the next day we all do Arizona UFA's. This would lead to a climatic experience when we finally got to Washington and the fireworks would explode. I think it would be fun to do it that way, but everyone is against me so lets just fckin pretend I said nothing in all of this. GOOD JOB EVERYONE!

On this topic I say we wait until 2 days before the first action. I think it's the expansion draft, but if we wait until 2 days before it and then if someone doesn't show up by then we give an Assistant a Promotion. I've got a competent AGM, who could fill the role, so I don't know what the sense in panicking would be. We've got some time still and that person might come back, wait it out and then give the people who don't show up a boot and promote the people who have been here on the wait list.

I think it'd be corny as hell to do the expansion draft at the actual time it happens. We're not going to be able to do the exact same thing that they do, so this just turns to fantasy nerd crap and is demeaned. I'd rather do this way before and then see how close we got to the real things. At the end of the day, I think real life stuff that happens > this stuff on here. So why do them at the same time when real things would dominate this fake stuff?

Just a quick note on this. I believe too long of a delay will result in loss of interest.
I also think our focus should be on how to run the upcoming events right now.
Once we have a system in place for each stage of activities, we can set dates for them.

We need to have a method of doing the following:
1. Vegas negotiations with unprotected RFA's and UFA's.
2. Vegas Expansion Draft.
3. NHL Entry Draft
4. NHL Free Agency

Before we do actually begin any of those, we need a roster freeze period that extends through Vegas' Free Agency and Expansion Draft period.
The beginning of the roster freeze will also be the date for final protection lists to be submitted.

We may be able to run Vegas Free Agency using the spreadsheet I set up (UFA Thread) and protected lists can be posted in a special thread and in team descriptions at the same time.
Vegas will be able to have a thread that they can edit their picks into the first post on, as they make them. We can watch and discuss in that thread. (No discussion that clutters up the protection list thread).
Vegas will look in the protection list thread and once he sees a team's post in that thread, he can make his pick from that team.

I'm still looking for a solution to determine the winner of a free agent without all contracts ending up being 8 years in order to maximize the value, lower the cap hit, and have a better chance of winning players than those attempting to sign reasonable contracts. Example: Offering a 37 year old player $2M x 8 years ($16M) while others offer a more reasonable $5M x 3 years ($15M). The $2M x 8 contract would win, even though it is ridiculous.
I've tried to come up with some way to manage that, but if my ideas are too complicated, someone has to think up a simpler solution.

I can't wait to bid on ufo's. I want me a little green humanoid as a pet!



All jokes aside, stop being so defensive. Propose good ideas and we will agree to them. Its that simple. But if your going to be an a-hole and say things like your "stopped reading after free agency" and "Good job Everyone", than by all means maybe we should pretend you didn't say anything.......

THANKS FOR CONTRIBUTING NOBODYCARES!!!!

Hey dude, I've got your back if you decide to go for a promotion. I think you've put the time in and should be considered first because we know you can do it. Outsiders may be able to do it as well, but have they done as much as you already? I think not and I'd rather do the phrase "go with what you know".

lol you're so great buddy. But what did you think about doing "UFA'S" alphabetically? That way Washington is about last and people go nuts for the big fish.

I think we need to do a system either alphabetically by team or split teams into 3 groups. The Group of 10 of the teams nominates 10 players and we bid on those 10 players. Then the next group of 10 the next day nominates 10 players for that day. We bid again for a full day so no-one gets shutout on a guy they want if they come on daily. We keep rotating until every UFA is either signed or passed over. It's gotta be something simple like that and it can't be hourly. You can't say like from 5pm to 7pm we'll bid on Shattenkirk, because then people get shut out big time and get disgruntled.

I agree on the timing thing, but there are some issues with the alphabetical thing. The main issue is that people need to be able to move around between UFA targets. If you're outbid on one player, you might want to go back and bid on a player from a team that has already passed as a plan B. If you wait for Washington and miss out on a player, all the good free agents from other teams are already gone.

EDIT: Same issues with dividing players or GMs into groups.

F50Marco, I think you're great at starting controversy and asking questions you don't have the answer to. The problem is you're not wise enough to just keep them to yourself and let things play out. Instead you ask people questions to get answers like a little kid asking a teacher. Why don't you let the people who can suggest an answer to a problem talk?

You need to stop being so confrontational. Enough is enough, learn to discuss with a level head or leave the discussion to everyone else.

So you just want to make it a big Log type thing? where the entire thread has everyone on it and we bid on everyone and then UFA stops for every player at the same time? I could see that working, thank you for offering a solution instead of just stirring the pot.

I have a level head, I'm just being honest. You can't possible think that's not the truth. That's just the total truth of whats clearly happening and he's not helping by asking questions without coming up with a solution. That's like winning half the battle, but losing the war.

Banks, this is reality and he started a thread that said suggestions, without offering any solutions. He just stirred the pot and didn't come through with anything. Aren't you supposed to be independent and truth seeking? Seems like you're good at taking sides, which is the very last thing a successful MOD should ever do. I am very level headed and none of this is ill willed. It's simply the truth that's happening.

If you look at the spreadsheet I posted, I'm proposing I create a column "Colorado, Vegas, etc." for each GM and we have people use it to do bidding. As for timing of when a UFA makes their decision, that's something we'll have to discuss further. I assume I can add a time stamp column on the sheet (though I'd have to check first). We could use any bid that stood for 24 hours without being beaten as that player being "won". That should prevent sniping, although some players may end up taking longer to "make their decision".

Oh give it a rest.

Some of his issues have solutions posted, some of them refer to other solutions posted by other users.
Some are open to discussion, which is NOT a problem, if everyone agrees that there is no changes needed, then that discussion on that subject ends.

Stop searching for issues that do not exist.

Loss of interest? Are we that action hungry? Fair enough, I'm fine conceding that waiting too long might not be a good idea but doing the expansion draft nearly 2 months in advance serves what purpose? Keeping people interested in the game? Maybe its just me but if you need action to happen every couple of weeks, what are we going to do after free agency freeze with the no hockey part of the summer?? Invent a new thing to drum up interest? See my point. We are trying to appease the people who are casual players and will only be on here when there is something important to come up and even then might lose interest in it anyway. Rather than appease the people who will take it seriously (In good fun of course).


As for the 4 events:

1) Vegas negotiations? - Can you elaborate on this? i don't see the problem?
2) Expansion draft - I don't see a problem with how to do it. Should be pretty self explanatory. Its more the dates for each thing that needs to be dealt with asap IMO
3) Entry draft - This should be somewhat easy also in theory. I think the current rule is first 2 rounds are picked then the rest is automatically picked for us? Unless people want to actually do the work of drafting those rounds? once again the dates for events are more my concern.
4) Free agency - This one needs some tweaking for sure. The details of how much is up to whomever has the best ideas. I'm more curious about making sure we have the rules set in stone for this so that people can start making trades based off the rules in place. Like I said, whoever traded for pending free agents or has big name free agents lost the ability to resign UFA's in advance because they didn't have the rules set in stone art that point.