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Forums/Armchair-GM

what i think a chiarot trade looks like now after the manson trade

Created by: odyssey
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 15, 2022
Published: Mar. 15, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
TOR
  1. Chiarot, Ben
Additional Details:
50% retained

after than manson trade (who is a better D man and shoots right) i doubt montreal gets the first and a third anymore
MTL
  1. Villeneuve, William
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (TOR)
  3. 2023 5th round pick (TOR)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2023
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
2024
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$79,008,116$0$400,000$2,491,884
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,500,000$3,500,000
LW, C, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,640,250$11,640,250
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$10,903,000$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,645,000$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,250,000$1,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,500,000$1,500,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,250,000$1,250,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,000,000$1,000,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$900,000$900,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$950,000$950,000
LW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,800,000$3,800,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,350,000$1,350,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$894,167$894,167
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,750,000$1,750,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$1,650,000$1,650,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,625,000$5,625,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3

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Mar. 15, 2022 at 8:00 p.m.
#26
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Joined: Feb. 2022
Posts: 3,895
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
yes, im aware how habs fans who think Chariot is good despite all evidence view me, they tell me all the time. Angry lot of kids , that.


knowing is half the battle! people often forget its just a sport in these forums
Mar. 15, 2022 at 8:04 p.m.
#27
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Edited Mar. 15, 2022 at 8:18 p.m.
Quoting: OldNYIfan
And now I’m going to quote a guy with whom I have frequent vigorous discussions:

"Funny, I was thinking the opposite. Manson is a better defender than Chiarot. Colorado has a very strong analytics department so they would have known that, of course.

5v5 On-ice Rels, this season
Chariot vs Manson
-2.66 CF% Rel +4.25
-3.65 GF% Rel +6.03
-5.15 xGF% Rel +0.72
-2.14 SCF% Rel +2.90
-6.54 HDCF% Rel +5.00
39.74 Off. Zone Start % 39.42

Manson’s shot-, goal-, scoring chance- and expected goal-suppression is far superior as he actually does good work in these areas, while Chiarot allows more of each than his teammates do. Chiarot has no advantage anywhere, not even in the scoring department:

0.31 Goals/60 0.32
0.68 Total Points/60 0.64
0.56 Primary Points/60 0.56
4.5 Shots/60 4.53
0.16 ixG/60 0.26
2.78 iSCF/60 3.26
0.43 iHDCF/60 1.11

Similar style, similar usage, but only one of these guys is effective at his job."

You can find further discussion on this point in https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/566100

You might find it enlightening.


That’s career stats. You’re adding in his 1st really good 3-4 seasons. Right. He was damn good his 1st 3-4 years. What about the last 3..? Three sub par seasons in a row.

The reason he brought back the value he did was the potential of getting back to those 1st really good seasons. Really, really good seasons. I agree. But not for 3 seasons in a row has he shown that/performed like that.

And you’re adding Chiarot’s 1st four sub par seasons. It’s minimizes his last 3 really good seasons.

Do those underlying stats/analytics for the last 3 seasons.
Mar. 15, 2022 at 8:17 p.m.
#28
Subbanator
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Joined: Jul. 2017
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
nah, i watch the games, unlike you who clearly just watch the ice time in the box scored


Lol all you do is quote the most popular analytic guys on twitter and then come on here and act like you know what you're talking about.
Mar. 15, 2022 at 8:18 p.m.
#29
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Lol all you do is quote the most popular analytic guys on twitter and then come on here and act like you know what you're talking about.


wow, you think jfresh is the most popular analytics guy on twitter? You really dont know anything about stats do you? He's not even in the top 10 and gets all his numbers from the actual stats guys. You should really look into that. Also watch the games, because then you would see chariot is bad with your own eyes
Mar. 15, 2022 at 9:25 p.m.
#30
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Edited Mar. 17, 2022 at 6:44 p.m.
Still with the Chiarot hate lol. Can we just all agree to have the argument after the deadline? Imo Chiarot is better and will get a better return. But we will see after Monday.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Mar. 15, 2022 at 10:07 p.m.
#31
Once a Kings Fan Too
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Quoting: GMs
If MTL gets better value than Manson, does that means GMs sees him better than Manson ?


Yes.
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Mar. 16, 2022 at 8:20 p.m.
#32
Leaf Fan Joke Here
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Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 397
Likes: 129
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Well manson is about 80x better, so by my calculations that means chariot should net the habs a negative 2nd rounder


HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Mar. 16, 2022 at 8:21 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: HabsAreSus
HAHAHAHAHAHAH


note the word should, i never said he wouldnt get a 1st. I think it's hilarious that florida paid that much, it's a very stupid trade that made them worse
Mar. 16, 2022 at 10:56 p.m.
#34
Thread Starter
H.Lindholm Lover
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
note the word should, i never said he wouldnt get a 1st. I think it's hilarious that florida paid that much, it's a very stupid trade that made them worse


i still think the manson bundle was better, they got a solid prospect
Mar. 17, 2022 at 2:43 a.m.
#35
Once a Kings Fan Too
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Quoting: GMs
If MTL gets better value than Manson, does that means GMs sees him better than Manson ?


{In light of ensuing events, I owe you an amended response}

Yes.

And I was wrong about Chiarot. Dead wrong. Rasmus Ristolainen wrong -- and I was on the bad side of that one, too.
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Mar. 17, 2022 at 10:46 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
{In light of ensuing events, I owe you an amended response}

Yes.

And I was wrong about Chiarot. Dead wrong. Rasmus Ristolainen wrong -- and I was on the bad side of that one, too.


Helleson + 2nd is pretty equal to a 2023 1st RD pick IMO
Maybe Smilanic and a 4th push the return a little bit better but it’s both good return
OldNYIfan liked this.
 
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