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Speeding up the rebuild

Created by: JhonnyCanuck5
Team: 2022-23 Detroit Red Wings
Initial Creation Date: Mar. 31, 2022
Published: Mar. 31, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Saw a Barzal trade on another post and thought it could be fun. Wings giving too much? Too little?

Still leaves room to re-sign Larkin, Bertuzzi, Seider, and Raymond.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
3$950,000
3$875,000
3$875,000
2$875,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,500,000
2$1,500,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$900,000
3$4,000,000
2$3,000,000
Trades
1.
DET
  1. Barzal, Mathew
  2. 2024 4th round pick (NYI)
Additional Details:
Offseason trade. Iles get a 2/3 C, an NHL forward, a high end, top pair potential D prospect, a mid level forward prospect, and 2 high draft picks. Wings giving too much?


Saw a Barzal trade in another post. Figured I’d try.
Also, can you trade for coaches? I’d love Trotz in Detroit.
NYI
  1. Erne, Adam
  2. Grewe, Albin
  3. Suter, Pius
  4. Wallinder, William
  5. 2022 2nd round pick (WSH)
  6. 2023 1st round pick (DET)
Additional Details:
2023 1st is top 3 protected.

Wings get a 1 or 2 C to pair with Larkin down the middle.
2.
DET
NYI
  1. Fulcher, Kaden [RFA Rights]
Additional Details:
Added to Barzal trade. Decent goalie prospect.
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2022
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the COL
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the LAK
2023
Logo of the DET
Logo of the STL
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
2024
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DAL
Logo of the NYI
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
Logo of the DET
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$57,173,056$0$3,775,000$24,326,944
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$2,625,000$2,625,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$6,100,000$6,100,000
C
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$2,375,000$2,375,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the New York Islanders
$7,000,000$7,000,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW, LW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,460,000$1,460,000
LW, C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$875,000$875,000
LW, C
RFA - 3
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$900,000$900,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$2,750,000$2,750,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$950,000$950,000
LD
RFA - 4
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$3,000,000$3,000,000
G
UFA - 1
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD/RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$4,400,000$4,400,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$850,000$850,000
RD
RFA - 1
$3,000,000$3,000,000
G
UFA
Logo of the Detroit Red Wings
$1,350,000$1,350,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1

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Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:07 p.m.
#26
Datsyukian
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
LMFAO AND BARZAL HAS BETTER GSVA OVER A 3 YEAR SPAN LMAO. No idea if this will upload but here is their RAPM charts over the past 3 years [url=Screen]Screen Shot 2022-03-31 at 2.03.36 PM[/url]

well it didnt ofc. you have an evolving hockey subscription? go look yourself


Dude, you're looking stupider and stupider.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:08 p.m.
#27
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at least in this one the majority of the value isn’t in hronek, a player the islanders have no need for whatsoever, so that’s a plus i suppose
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:08 p.m.
#28
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Datsyukian
Dude, you're looking stupider and stupider.


LMFAO. You said the islanders are trading barzal for nothing
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:13 p.m.
#29
Datsyukian
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
LMFAO. You said the islanders are trading barzal for nothing


huh?

I'm saying you suggesting Barzal>>>Larkin is ludicrous, that's it.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:26 p.m.
#30
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Datsyukian
huh?

I'm saying you suggesting Barzal>>>Larkin is ludicrous, that's it.


I mean I’d gladly take Barzal before Larkin. Swap teams and Barzal becomes a 80-90 point guy pretty easily. An islanders trade for Larkin would be Raty, 2022 First (pick 10-15 or so) and Pageau

Wings aren’t moving him.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:29 p.m.
#31
Datsyukian
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
I mean I’d gladly take Barzal before Larkin. Swap teams and Barzal becomes a 80-90 point guy pretty easily. An islanders trade for Larkin would be Raty, 2022 First (pick 10-15 or so) and Pageau

Wings aren’t moving him.


Of course you would, you're an Islanders fan. But that doesn't mean you're right.

Larkin is at least as good a player as Barzal, on every single level. Neither are top tier 1Cs but very good 2Cs. Barzal is much more of a perimeter player than Larkin.

The swap teams argument is hilarious and false, we can move on from that. Larkin plays a 200 ft game just as much as Barzal does.

That is not what a trade for Larkin would look like. It would look almost exactly like what a trade for Barzal would look like.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:29 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: dtd_tank
Earlier your argument was Larkin sucks because he hasn't hit 73 pts. Now your argument is that Barzal's better because you can't see advance stats when I provide a chart that references GSVA to you. I think we're done here lol.


This is the first season Larkin has been better than Barzal. From 2018-21 season Barzal was much better . I'm not sure why you think its realistic that the isles would trade Barzal.
<a href=Screen-Shot-2022-03-31-at-2-28-14-PM">
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:33 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: Datsyukian
Of course you would, you're an Islanders fan. But that doesn't mean you're right.

Larkin is at least as good a player as Barzal, on every single level. Neither are top tier 1Cs but very good 2Cs. Barzal is much more of a perimeter player than Larkin.

The swap teams argument is hilarious and false, we can move on from that. Larkin plays a 200 ft game just as much as Barzal does.

That is not what a trade for Larkin would look like. It would look almost exactly like what a trade for Barzal would look like.


From 2018-21 Barzal was a top 15 center in the NHL. The analytics and rate stats back that up .
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:36 p.m.
#34
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Datsyukian
Of course you would, you're an Islanders fan. But that doesn't mean you're right.

Larkin is at least as good a player as Barzal, on every single level. Neither are top tier 1Cs but very good 2Cs. Barzal is much more of a perimeter player than Larkin.

The swap teams argument is hilarious and false, we can move on from that. Larkin plays a 200 ft game just as much as Barzal does.

That is not what a trade for Larkin would look like. It would look almost exactly like what a trade for Barzal would look like.


It isnt about playing a 200 ft game lmao. Barzal is forced to dump and chase. he is forced to pokecheck to keep in the zone instead of taking control. the islanders play trap. detroit doesnt. thats the difference.

and a Larkin trade would take the same thing. A prospect, roster player and first. Im taking the downgrade from Vrana to JG as equal to the first going from 20s to around 10-15
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:37 p.m.
#35
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Db1899
This is the first season Larkin has been better than Barzal. From 2018-21 season Barzal was much better . I'm not sure why you think its realistic that the isles would trade Barzal.
<a href=Screen-Shot-2022-03-31-at-2-28-14-PM">


how do you get screenshots in here? ive been trying forever lol. thats exactly what I was gonna send
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:42 p.m.
#36
Datsyukian
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Quoting: Db1899
From 2018-21 Barzal was a top 15 center in the NHL. The analytics and rate stats back that up .


What year is it? I forget...

Between '18 and '21 Barzal barely reached 60 points haha (on a much better team, I might add). I'm not really sure how you can claim he's a top 15 center in the NHL....borderline laughable.

Again, both great players, negligible difference between them. You just don't watch the Wings.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:42 p.m.
#37
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Larkin >>>> Barzel
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:42 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
how do you get screenshots in here? ive been trying forever lol. thats exactly what I was gonna send


Imgbb.com, screenshot what you want, upload it to the site. Copy the link and put it in the photo link on here
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:49 p.m.
#39
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Db1899
Imgbb.com, screenshot what you want, upload it to the site. Copy the link and put it in the photo link on here


thank you
Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:49 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: Datsyukian
What year is it? I forget...

Between '18 and '21 Barzal barely reached 60 points haha (on a much better team, I might add). I'm not really sure how you can claim he's a top 15 center in the NHL....borderline laughable.

Again, both great players, negligible difference between them. You just don't watch the Wings.


So you're saying a 3 year sample doesn't matter, by every offensive advanced metric Barzal was top 15. He was on pace for 67 points last season, and ranked top 10 among centers in 5v5 points per 60. If you want to be ignorant and ignore the numbers, that's on you.

It's easier to put up points on the redwings than the isles, so "playing on a much better team" doesn't hold much weight.
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 2:58 p.m.
#41
Datsyukian
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Quoting: Db1899
So you're saying a 3 year sample doesn't matter, by every offensive advanced metric Barzal was top 15. He was on pace for 67 points last season, and ranked top 10 among centers in 5v5 points per 60. If you want to be ignorant and ignore the numbers, that's on you.

It's easier to put up points on the redwings than the isles, so "playing on a much better team" doesn't hold much weight.


"It's easier to put up points on the Red Wings than the isles".....this is a new favorite of mine.

He was on pace, and then what happened?

I'm not ignoring any numbers, it's just fun to hear you try to rationalize your bias.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:18 p.m.
#42
Will9739
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
LMFAO AND BARZAL HAS BETTER GSVA OVER A 3 YEAR SPAN LMAO. No idea if this will upload but here is their RAPM charts over the past 3 years [url=Screen]Screen Shot 2022-03-31 at 2.03.36 PM[/url]

well it didnt ofc. you have an evolving hockey subscription? go look yourself


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you ask him out to dinner smile
Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:33 p.m.
#43
Lenny7
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Quoting: Datsyukian
He was on pace, and then what happened?


I mean, I'm just chiming in because watching two fan bases bash each others top (ish) players has been entertaining, but re: the above question-I'd assume that he's referencing the fact that there was (is?) a pandemic that limited teams to 56 regular season games last year...Barzal had 45 pts/55 games=0.818 ppg x 82 games=67 point pace.

Also, vote Bunting for Calder.

(I'll see myself out tears of joy)
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:35 p.m.
#44
Datsyukian
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Quoting: Lenny7
I mean, I'm just chiming in because watching two fan bases bash each others top (ish) players has been entertaining, but re: the above question-I'd assume that he's referencing the fact that there was (is?) a pandemic that limited teams to 56 regular season games last year...Barzal had 45 pts/55 games=0.818 ppg x 82 games=67 point pace.

Also, vote Bunting for Calder.

(I'll see myself out tears of joy)


I'm just alluding to the ridiculousness of the "on pace" argument. I got paid today, so that means I'm on pace to get paid every day for the rest of the year....

Still....67 points ain't all that haha
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:40 p.m.
#45
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: will9739
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you ask him out to dinner smile


Car pfp
Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:41 p.m.
#46
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Datsyukian
I'm just alluding to the ridiculousness of the "on pace" argument. I got paid today, so that means I'm on pace to get paid every day for the rest of the year....

Still....67 points ain't all that haha


On pace? If a player has 95 points in 65 games vs 100 in 82, who did better?
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Mar. 31, 2022 at 3:49 p.m.
#47
Lenny7
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Quoting: Datsyukian
I'm just alluding to the ridiculousness of the "on pace" argument. I got paid today, so that means I'm on pace to get paid every day for the rest of the year....


But doesn't that tie in with his argument of the 3 year sample size vs. the 1 year sample size? Like, sure, you got paid today, but did you get paid yesterday? A week ago? 2 weeks ago? The larger the sample size, the more accurate the data typically is...If this is the first time you've been paid in 2 weeks, and the time before that was 2 weeks before, I can more accurately assume that you won't be paid for another two weeks. 1 month sample > 1 day sample.

I've got no horse in this race, and think both are excellent players, I'm just a bigger fan of larger sample sizes, because they typically dictate where a player will likely be a year from now. For instance, Barzal's pace over the past 4 seasons has pretty much put him in the 67ish pts/82 games every year, consistently. I feel like that gives us a pretty good idea of where he's at as a player. Hilariously, over that same 4 year sample, Larkin has scored at a 68ish/82 game pace.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 4:01 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: Datsyukian
"It's easier to put up points on the Red Wings than the isles".....this is a new favorite of mine.

He was on pace, and then what happened?

I'm not ignoring any numbers, it's just fun to hear you try to rationalize your bias.

It is, Trotz rolls 4 lines - doesnt really give anyone top line minutes. Doesn’t put his top forwards out in empty net situations. There are many cases of players putting up great numbers on bad teams because they get more opportunity

Idk man maybe you’ve heard of a covid shortened season.

It’s not bias if I can prove it’s a fact. If anything you’re the one using confirmation bias, all the analytics/rate stats put him in the 10-15 range among centers. You can try to prove me wrong, but there’s not an advanced metric out there that says he isn’t a star 1C
Mar. 31, 2022 at 4:03 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: Lenny7
But doesn't that tie in with his argument of the 3 year sample size vs. the 1 year sample size? Like, sure, you got paid today, but did you get paid yesterday? A week ago? 2 weeks ago? The larger the sample size, the more accurate the data typically is...If this is the first time you've been paid in 2 weeks, and the time before that was 2 weeks before, I can more accurately assume that you won't be paid for another two weeks. 1 month sample > 1 day sample.

I've got no horse in this race, and think both are excellent players, I'm just a bigger fan of larger sample sizes, because they typically dictate where a player will likely be a year from now. For instance, Barzal's pace over the past 4 seasons has pretty much put him in the 67ish pts/82 games every year, consistently. I feel like that gives us a pretty good idea of where he's at as a player. Hilariously, over that same 4 year sample, Larkin has scored at a 68ish/82 game pace.


With the caveat that Larkins team was garbage for most of that time (gutted in 2019-2020) and he had a down year last year when he played while half crippled for the season and without any talent to assist him (dark dark days in Detroit).

Regardless completely ignoring that caveat and taking it at face value, pretty rough take to claim Barzal >>>> Larkin with that 4 year sample size. Especially as goals > assists.
Mar. 31, 2022 at 4:19 p.m.
#50
Lenny7
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Quoting: Mystaes
With the caveat that Larkins team was garbage for most of that time (gutted in 2019-2020) and he had a down year last year when he played while half crippled for the season and without any talent to assist him (dark dark days in Detroit).

Regardless completely ignoring that caveat and taking it at face value, pretty rough take to claim Barzal >>>> Larkin with that 4 year sample size. Especially as goals > assists.


Yeah, I mean, again, no horse in the race here, but for discussion sake, I'd probably argue that the Isles haven't exactly been an offensive juggernaut either. I'd assume that the original Barzal >>>> Larkin was just an over reaction, where they're pretty close to even at the end of the day.
 
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