Forums/Armchair-GM

cashing in on unreasonable hate

Created by: MTLaveragefan
Initial Creation Date: Apr. 13, 2022
Published: Apr. 13, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Montembeault, Samuel2$900,000
Pezzetta, Michael2$800,000
Pitlick, Rem2$1,800,000
Primeau, Cayden2$800,000
Romanov, Alexander4$3,800,000
Schueneman, Corey2$800,000
Trades
1.
MTL
  1. Nylander, William
  2. Mrázek, Petr
Additional Details:
Nylander gets so much hate by leaf fans... its comical.

And they seem to like Anderson, so here is a trade that will never happen.
TOR
  1. Anderson, Josh
  2. Allen, Jake
2.
MTL
  1. 2024 2nd round pick (MTL)
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (SJS)
Not to Arizona - but I don't expect to get much for these players

Drouin and hoffman, maybe a 2nd
ARI
  1. Armia, Joel
  2. Hoffman, Mike
  3. Drouin, Jonathan
3.
MTL
    NSH
    1. Weber, Shea
    4.
    MTL
    1. Levi, Devon [Reserve List]
    2. 2023 2nd round pick (PHI)
    BUF
    1. Petry, Jeff
    Additional Details:
    Signed longterm (which is hard to get in Buff)

    a veteran RHD for Dhalin and Power.
    Buyouts
    • Karl Alzner: $833,333
    Buried
    • Petr Mrázek: $2,675,000 ($3,800,000)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2022
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the SJS
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the CAR
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the NYR
    Logo of the TBL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the STL
    2023
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the FLA
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the PHI
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    2024
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the COL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the EDM
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    21$82,500,000$67,095,698$1,132,500$1,990,000$15,404,302
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the TOR
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Suzuki, Nick
    $7,875,000
    C
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the MTL
    Caufield, Cole
    $880,833
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Pitlick, Rem
    $1,800,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Dvorak, Christian
    $4,450,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Ylönen, Jesse
    $880,833
    RW, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël
    $825,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Poehling, Ryan
    $750,000
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Gallagher, Brendan
    $6,500,000
    RW
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the MTL
    Pezzetta, Michael
    $800,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Evans, Jake
    $1,700,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Byron, Paul
    $3,400,000
    LW, RW, C
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the MTL
    Edmundson, Joel
    $3,500,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Barron, Justin
    $925,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Price, Carey
    $10,500,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the MTL
    Romanov, Alexander
    $3,800,000
    LD/RD
    RFA
    Logo of the MTL
    Savard, David
    $3,500,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Montembeault, Samuel
    $900,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Guhle, Kaiden
    $863,333
    LD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Harris, Jordan
    $842,500
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Schueneman, Corey
    $800,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1

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    Apr. 13 at 12:15 p.m.
    #26
    Go Habs Go
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    Quoting: Shibbal18
    Sabres are probably not looking for RD in the offseason, will use Dahlin on the right and take a RD high in the draft


    I'm not saying there aren't options. I'm only responding to there being better RHD options available. There really aren't many.
    This proposal isn't in "Sabres block your number" territory. It's quite reasonable given the market for RHD.
    Apr. 13 at 12:18 p.m.
    #27
    we miss leo k
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    Quoting: MTLaveragefan
    The reality with Petry is that we don't want to trade him... we are doing it to accommodate a human bieng, a father and husband... The guys is having a rough time being away. So I think its unlikely that he would add additional obstacle to his own trade.


    i still don't think that's enough justification for Buffalo to not only take on his 3x$6.25M, but also give up their best goalie prospect & a 2nd rounder next year, when they could just sign a veteran RHD on July 1st for less money and keep those assets.
    gretzkyghosts liked this.
    Apr. 13 at 12:19 p.m.
    #28
    Shibbal18
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    Quoting: LIRIK
    I'm thinking BUF 2022 2nd, but Petry have a 3M signing bonus due on July 1st, not sure Sabres owners wanna pay that. Then it would have to be 2023 2nd.

    Buffalo's GM said he wanted to add RD vet this summer to play with Dahlin and Power.


    Depends on how Dahlin looks on the right. So far so good, that opens a spot for Johnson on the left too
    sabres89 liked this.
    Apr. 13 at 12:22 p.m.
    #29
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    i still don't think that's enough justification for Buffalo to not only take on his 3x$6.25M, but also give up their best goalie prospect & a 2nd rounder next year, when they could just sign a veteran RHD on July 1st for less money and keep those assets.


    3X6.5M is really reasonable for a top 4 RHD... Do you really want to spend 9M$ on a letang or Klingberg?

    If you draft a RHD like Nemec... he won't be ready for another 2-3 years anyway. So timeline wise - it's not that bad to have a vet RHD with playoff experience to pair with your young D.

    Especially when you have other Goalie prospect in the system. (Levi is not a guarantee - remember Fucale? Askarov? even Primeau?)
    Apr. 13 at 12:24 p.m.
    #30
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    I'm not saying there aren't options. I'm only responding to there being better RHD options available. There really aren't many.
    This proposal isn't in "Sabres block your number" territory. It's quite reasonable given the market for RHD.


    even after you cross off Letang & Klingberg (almost definitely not going to Buffalo this summer), you've got the following guys in UFA this summer:

    -PK Subban
    -Chris Wideman
    -Justin Schultz
    -Justin Braun
    -Anton Stralman
    -Erik Gudbranson
    -Jan Rutta
    -Colin Miller
    -Mark Pysyk
    -Josh Manson
    -Ilya Lyubshkin

    And that's before you get to the weird mix of guys that are 7/8 D or AHL tweeners. Not saying all of those guys are jumping at the chance to play for Buffalo, but I'd say every single one of them (save for maybe Josh Manson) signs for less than Petry's AAV, and, again, won't cost Buffalo their best goalie prospect and a 2nd rounder next year.
    sabres89 and gretzkyghosts liked this.
    Apr. 13 at 12:32 p.m.
    #31
    Owly
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    Quoting: TrueCanuck
    Leafs fans love Nylander. They actually overvalue him.. the exact opposite of your thread


    It's like a 50/50 split. Some of us see how good he is and many others think literally any 40-50 point player is just as good. The latter ones are also idiots
    Apr. 13 at 12:33 p.m.
    #32
    Shibbal18
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    I'm not saying there aren't options. I'm only responding to there being better RHD options available. There really aren't many.
    This proposal isn't in "Sabres block your number" territory. It's quite reasonable given the market for RHD.


    If were talking just value not teams, for someone who wants Petry, the value still favors MTL slightly, I would agree its not block your number territory. Im saying though in this context it is block your number territory. RD is not what Buffalo is looking for. Goalie is actually their top priority. So this is pretty much the opposite of what Buffalo would want. This would be a panic move to throw away a goalie because he didnt sign the first contract thrown at him, the Sabres arent there yet
    MTLaveragefan liked this.
    Apr. 13 at 12:33 p.m.
    #33
    Owly
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    Quoting: Chabotrrorr
    I’m glad to hear. I love Nylander, but my Leafs fans family members that live in Toronto seem to severely undervalue him. Others believe he’s dragging down other players.


    Those fans are just out to lunch. He's a fantastic player
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    Apr. 13 at 12:34 p.m.
    #34
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    Another Hab post where no value contracts are hoisted upon other team.
    Wouldn't the Sabres be hundred times better off, signing a UFA for 6.25m, and not give cup two assets for obtaining Petry. Now if Habs want to "gift" Petry to Habs....maybe the Sabres bite.
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    Apr. 13 at 12:34 p.m.
    #35
    Owly
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    Quoting: MTLaveragefan
    Yeah like... I'm a habs fan and I can see that!

    I remember leaf fans trashing him while being the only one playing great in the playoffs against the habs.


    I don't think you were talking to Leaf fans
    Apr. 13 at 12:34 p.m.
    #36
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    Not a fan of Anderson for what he's making compared to what Nylander is making. You guys would probably run Nylander out of town as well.
    Apr. 13 at 12:49 p.m.
    #37
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    Quoting: Shibbal18
    If were talking just value not teams, for someone who wants Petry, the value still favors MTL slightly, I would agree its not block your number territory. Im saying though in this context it is block your number territory. RD is not what Buffalo is looking for. Goalie is actually their top priority. So this is pretty much the opposite of what Buffalo would want. This would be a panic move to throw away a goalie because he didnt sign the first contract thrown at him, the Sabres arent there yet


    Fair enough
    Apr. 13 at 12:49 p.m.
    #38
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    Those fans are just out to lunch. He's a fantastic player


    I agree, hence the title
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    Apr. 13 at 12:50 p.m.
    #39
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    Quoting: mondo
    Not a fan of Anderson for what he's making compared to what Nylander is making. You guys would probably run Nylander out of town as well.


    In a heartbeat lol... He takes a shift off? STraIghT to Jail
    Apr. 13 at 1:03 p.m.
    #40
    Go Habs Go
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    even after you cross off Letang & Klingberg (almost definitely not going to Buffalo this summer), you've got the following guys in UFA this summer:

    -PK Subban
    -Chris Wideman
    -Justin Schultz
    -Justin Braun
    -Anton Stralman
    -Erik Gudbranson
    -Jan Rutta
    -Colin Miller
    -Mark Pysyk
    -Josh Manson
    -Ilya Lyubshkin

    And that's before you get to the weird mix of guys that are 7/8 D or AHL tweeners. Not saying all of those guys are jumping at the chance to play for Buffalo, but I'd say every single one of them (save for maybe Josh Manson) signs for less than Petry's AAV, and, again, won't cost Buffalo their best goalie prospect and a 2nd rounder next year.


    Better? How many of those match Petry's production and average 22 minutes a game? Considering Petry is at least an equal producer even in his worst season, none of them are really "better", just possibly cheaper.
    Apr. 13 at 1:09 p.m.
    #41
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    Better? How many of those match Petry's production and average 22 minutes a game? Considering Petry is at least an equal producer even in his worst season, none of them are really "better", just possibly cheaper.


    i'll follow that up with this: do you think adding Jeff Petry makes Buffalo a playoff team, as they stand now?

    or do the Sabres keep the pick, prospect, and save $2-3M and sign one of those dudes and continue the rebuild?
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    Apr. 13 at 1:29 p.m.
    #42
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    Quoting: palhal
    Another Hab post where no value contracts are hoisted upon other team.
    Wouldn't the Sabres be hundred times better off, signing a UFA for 6.25m, and not give cup two assets for obtaining Petry. Now if Habs want to "gift" Petry to Habs....maybe the Sabres bite.


    That's where i land. Petry for a mid round pick might be of interest. Petry for an early round pick and our top goalie prospect, the Sabres would go another route.
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    Apr. 13 at 1:44 p.m.
    #43
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    i'll follow that up with this: do you think adding Jeff Petry makes Buffalo a playoff team, as they stand now?

    or do the Sabres keep the pick, prospect, and save $2-3M and sign one of those dudes and continue the rebuild?


    I already said there are other options. Going cheaper is one. I said there aren't many better options. Not without giving up 1sts, quality prospects, or paying more for longer.
    If you want the next wave of defensemen to learn their craft alongside lesser players, that's a choice. You get what you pay for.
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    Apr. 13 at 2:05 p.m.
    #44
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    I already said there are other options. Going cheaper is one. I said there aren't many better options. Not without giving up 1sts, quality prospects, or paying more for longer.
    If you want the next wave of defensemen to learn their craft alongside lesser players, that's a choice. You get what you pay for.


    Justin Schultz has won two Cups, and so has Jan Rutta. Justin Braun has played in more than double the amount of playoff games that Petry has. PK Subban has won a Norris Trophy.

    I'll reiterate that I'm not saying that Petry is a bum, I'm just saying that he's a bad fit for Buffalo, especially at that price. If Buffalo is looking for a veteran to mentor their young D corps, there are plenty of options in UFA that are guys that have been more successful than Petry - whether that's individual success or being part of championship teams - and they will all cost less in both AAV and cost to acquire.

    If Montreal really wants to move Petry (which is dumb to begin with because they'd be selling at his rock bottom value at this point), he makes the most sense for a contending team that needs top 4 RHD help and who can stomach the acquisition cost. Otherwise, you're stuck with him for 3 more years.

    edited to add: just wanted to point out the irony that you say "without giving up 1sts, quality prospects or paying more for longer" - Buffalo is one round off on the pick from doing all three at once here, which is why I'm saying the value is horrible
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    Apr. 13 at 5:10 p.m.
    #45
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    Justin Schultz has won two Cups, and so has Jan Rutta. Justin Braun has played in more than double the amount of playoff games that Petry has. PK Subban has won a Norris Trophy.

    I'll reiterate that I'm not saying that Petry is a bum, I'm just saying that he's a bad fit for Buffalo, especially at that price. If Buffalo is looking for a veteran to mentor their young D corps, there are plenty of options in UFA that are guys that have been more successful than Petry - whether that's individual success or being part of championship teams - and they will all cost less in both AAV and cost to acquire.

    If Montreal really wants to move Petry (which is dumb to begin with because they'd be selling at his rock bottom value at this point), he makes the most sense for a contending team that needs top 4 RHD help and who can stomach the acquisition cost. Otherwise, you're stuck with him for 3 more years.

    edited to add: just wanted to point out the irony that you say "without giving up 1sts, quality prospects or paying more for longer" - Buffalo is one round off on the pick from doing all three at once here, which is why I'm saying the value is horrible


    Montreal doesn't want to move Petry. He wants to move. We'd happily be "stuck" with him. We have neither the depth or quality of player to replace him, and could use him for the same reasons.
    If you feel another player offers more for less, I'd be satisfied if every single team turned down any Petry trade.

    Including Levi is debatable. I said that already. A goaltender will never be more valuable outside of the organization until they have proven they can perform at the professional level.
    There's a big difference between a mid 2nd and a mid 1st. It's not simply "off by 1 round".

    I'd love to send him to a contender instead, but not many teams manage to be contenders without already having their top 4D or the cap space to add one.
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    Apr. 13 at 7:11 p.m.
    #46
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    There's a big difference between a mid 2nd and a mid 1st. It's not simply "off by 1 round".


    as an aside, I'm sure Flyers fans appreciate you thinking their pick will land in the middle of the 2nd next season, because I sure don't. I was assuming that pick would land in the mid-30s, early in the 2nd.

    I think your first part is where it ends up. Petry is staying in Montreal. This year obviously sucked for him personally but it's beginning to seem like it's (hopefully) not going to be as big of an issue to see his family with COVID restrictions beginning to lift in the US and Canada, so I think that will work in his favor. And again, I think we both agree that Montreal trading Petry this offseason would be foolish - you're selling him at the absolute nadir of his value. Give him next season to see if he can recapture his game under MSL and either provide good value for the Habs, or become a tradable asset again. The absolute worst case scenario is you're where you are now - except with a year less term left on his deal at the deadline.
    Apr. 13 at 8:57 p.m.
    #47
    Go Habs Go
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    as an aside, I'm sure Flyers fans appreciate you thinking their pick will land in the middle of the 2nd next season, because I sure don't. I was assuming that pick would land in the mid-30s, early in the 2nd.

    I think your first part is where it ends up. Petry is staying in Montreal. This year obviously sucked for him personally but it's beginning to seem like it's (hopefully) not going to be as big of an issue to see his family with COVID restrictions beginning to lift in the US and Canada, so I think that will work in his favor. And again, I think we both agree that Montreal trading Petry this offseason would be foolish - you're selling him at the absolute nadir of his value. Give him next season to see if he can recapture his game under MSL and either provide good value for the Habs, or become a tradable asset again. The absolute worst case scenario is you're where you are now - except with a year less term left on his deal at the deadline.


    Flyers are trying to compete and I believe they will make moves toward that goal, so I'm not counting them in the basement ... Yet.

    As for Petry, I hope he does stay. Regardless of what happens, we are short on the right side and I don't want to see us handing out another Savard contract or a likely prohibitive Letang/Klingberg contract in free agency.

    We need veteran support for our D prospects. I think Buffalo does too. I'd be willing to give up a 2nd+ for a similar player if one were available. There's just nobody like that which can be had unless the player or contract are worse.
    dannibalcorpse liked this.
    Apr. 13 at 9:12 p.m.
    #48
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    Quoting: ricochetii
    Flyers are trying to compete and I believe they will make moves toward that goal, so I'm not counting them in the basement ... Yet.

    As for Petry, I hope he does stay. Regardless of what happens, we are short on the right side and I don't want to see us handing out another Savard contract or a likely prohibitive Letang/Klingberg contract in free agency.

    We need veteran support for our D prospects. I think Buffalo does too. I'd be willing to give up a 2nd+ for a similar player if one were available. There's just nobody like that which can be had unless the player or contract are worse.


    I think you gotta staple Petry to Jordan Harris for the last 2 weeks of the year and see if there's chemistry there - I think Harris has LD1 potential for Montreal and giving him that audition while playing out the string could be a huge boost for him. And yeah - I think that Petry is probably worth a 2nd+a B-level prospect, I just think Levi is an A/A+ goalie prospect for a team that is D E S P E R A T E for a franchise goalie ever since Ryan Miller left in 2014.
    Apr. 13 at 9:29 p.m.
    #49
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    I think you gotta staple Petry to Jordan Harris for the last 2 weeks of the year and see if there's chemistry there - I think Harris has LD1 potential for Montreal and giving him that audition while playing out the string could be a huge boost for him. And yeah - I think that Petry is probably worth a 2nd+a B-level prospect, I just think Levi is an A/A+ goalie prospect for a team that is D E S P E R A T E for a franchise goalie ever since Ryan Miller left in 2014.


    I think Petry should be playing with Edmundson to raise his value if he's being moved. If he's staying, Harris is a better idea.

    I wouldn't trade Levi, just as I wouldn't have traded Primeau a few years ago. The potential value is just so much higher than the actual value. You keep any promising goaltender until they implode or you have a better one.
    Apr. 14 at 1:35 p.m.
    #50
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    Quoting: palhal
    Another Hab post where no value contracts are hoisted upon other team...
    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    i'll follow that up with this: do you think adding Jeff Petry makes Buffalo a playoff team, as they stand now?...
    Thank you for your valuable input, I look forward to your insightful posts.
    I love when someone makes a post with a trade to the Sabres and NON-SABRE ACGM's are telling him the post is bad for the Sabres!
    That should set off alarm bells that the post is bad and stop trying to make it sound good.
    @MTLaveragefan
    I would love to have Petry in a Sabre uniform next year, but not at the expense of Levi and an early 2nd.
    There are too many free options available for Buffalo.
    IMO, too many Sabre fans over look Miller, no he is not Petry, but I get to watch every game he plays and he is a solid top 4 defenseman.
    He could available for a longer term at half the cap hit of Petry.
    palhal liked this.
     
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