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2021-22 NHL Off-season Discussion Thread - #1

May 17, 2022 at 9:19 p.m.
#1001
v5 CBJ GM
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i remember when arizona traded PICKS and PROSPECTS to acquire TAYLOR HALL
AND MADE THE PLAYOFFS
the good old days when arizona wasn't as much of a poverty franchise
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May 17, 2022 at 9:21 p.m.
#1002
What in tarnation
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Quoting: Db1899
Pulock's goals per 60 and points per 60 min were similar to the top defenseman in the league - at 23 years old that is breaking out. He was a beast at even strength and on the PP. The only difference is under Trotz they got more ice time, which was deserved. They were entering their primes, which Is why I sad Trotz was riding the aging curves of his defenseman. He fell into a great situation, he's obviously a defensive minded coach and the isles had 3 top pair two way defenseman waiting for him.

If Heiskanen was on a team with average finishing ability, he'd finish top 3 in Norris votes. He was better than Dobson this season and he was arguably the best two way defensman in the league. If you want to give Trotz credit for NYI defenseman, then its only fair to credit Bowness lol

I don't think the Isles make the playoffs next season, Lee, Pageau, and Nelson are exiting their primes. Like I said last offseason, losing Eberle was going to be a major blow to Barzal and the team, which ended up happening. I will measure Lamberts success on how much the young guys improve.


I can credit Bowness for making Heiskanen look great defensively, but honestly he was already that by default. However, I will heavily criticize Bowness on hindering his offensive play. Overall I think he's hindering them over anything else.

As for Trotz, I mostly will credit him on building a defensive culture which can help D-men look great (at least those with some actual defensive capabilites). Those who live of offensive game will not look as good.

Will a D like Scott Mayfield who's no good offensively look great elsewhere or will he turn a Chiarot once he leaves? Who knows. Trotz system has created the value on the guy.
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May 17, 2022 at 9:28 p.m.
#1003
What in tarnation
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..
May 17, 2022 at 9:31 p.m.
#1004
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Imagine the Leafs right now with Marchment and Verhaeghe


I will always wonder what a non Tavares Leaf team could have looked like.
May 17, 2022 at 9:36 p.m.
#1005
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I will always wonder what a non Tavares Leaf team could have looked like.


It would have been a team with either JVR and Bozak still on it or Stamkos

Or in other words a Lateral situation
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May 17, 2022 at 9:55 p.m.
#1006
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Tampa is still the team to beat
May 17, 2022 at 11:18 p.m.
#1007
Go leafs go
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Quoting: Bobcat205
If he's gone i'd probably switch to a Bunting jersey, though i doubt he'd be gone. Maybe 1 more year before retirement?


I think he’s got one more year in him, I agree.
May 17, 2022 at 11:20 p.m.
#1008
v5 Minnesota GM
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When is Boston going to start to rebuild, if Bergeron leaves, expect Marchand to leave, pasta is a ufa in 1 year, I can see them rebuilding next year and being 1 of the worst Atlantic teams
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May 17, 2022 at 11:33 p.m.
#1009
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Quoting: justaBoss
I can credit Bowness for making Heiskanen look great defensively, but honestly he was already that by default. However, I will heavily criticize Bowness on hindering his offensive play. Overall I think he's hindering them over anything else.

As for Trotz, I mostly will credit him on building a defensive culture which can help D-men look great (at least those with some actual defensive capabilites). Those who live of offensive game will not look as good.

Will a D like Scott Mayfield who's no good offensively look great elsewhere or will he turn a Chiarot once he leaves? Who knows. Trotz system has created the value on the guy.


Mayfield is who he is - a good 3rd pair defensive D who can spot as a 2nd pair D. He's nothing special on a Trotz team, he'd have the same impact anywhere else in a 3rd pair role. If a team tries to play him in a top 4 role full time, then they'll regret it.

The narrative that Trotz makes defenseman look good or gets the most out of them is exaggerated because of how bad defensively as a TEAM they were in 17-18 under weight - but the forwards played a big role in that - Tavares, Bailey, Lee , Alan Quine were among the worst defensive forwards in the NHL. 17-18 also marked the year that Boychuk fell off a cliff, yet he was still used in a top pair role with Leddy.

What made the difference in Trotz's 1st year is that he gave Pelech + Pulock an increased role and didn't allow the forwards to cheat for offense. Mitch Korn worked his magic with the goaltenders which is one of the main reasons the isles had success that year. In Trotz's 4 years as HC he couldn't get Chara, Greene, Boychuk, or Leddy to have even an average defensive impact. If his system was that good at making D look better than they are, then it should at least make them serviceable. Which is why that narrative is BS, the players he had were just great players on their own.
May 17, 2022 at 11:56 p.m.
#1010
Go leafs go
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Quoting: justaBoss
Seems pretty random to me that by adding two D-men from AHL and Lehner who struggled in BUF and OTT would lead them to let 100 goals less in one year.

Trotz definitely had some impact on it. After all he is recognized as one of the greatest defensive coaches there is.

Individually speaking these D-men are great, and I've never said they were. But I'm still sure that playing under top level coach's defensive system helped them to reach the level they are in.

You're just about the only user who is very critical of Trotz here, despite all the success he brought for Isles. I can understand criticizing his choices in regards of offense and especially the lines he sometimes had, which ultimately likely lead to him getting fired.

Trotz absolutely had a lot to do with that team’s turnaround. He’s probably the best defensive coach in the nhl. I’d be happy to see the leafs land him.
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May 17, 2022 at 11:59 p.m.
#1011
Go leafs go
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Quoting: aadoyle
He said he wants to come back

So go get that jersey

Also Gio is heavily leaning towards coming back to. While im 50/50 on it because of Sandin if you rotate them every other game or heck use 7 D for most of the year then thats fine.


What they say means absolutely nothing whatsoever, but it does seem likely that both of them are back for one more shot at league minimum.
May 18, 2022 at 1:16 a.m.
#1012
Ex Nucks fan
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Just saw that homer Jets fan say the Guentzel for Scheifele does nothing for Winnipeg and that they decline.
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May 18, 2022 at 3:18 a.m.
#1013
What in tarnation
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Quoting: Db1899
Mayfield is who he is - a good 3rd pair defensive D who can spot as a 2nd pair D. He's nothing special on a Trotz team, he'd have the same impact anywhere else in a 3rd pair role. If a team tries to play him in a top 4 role full time, then they'll regret it.

The narrative that Trotz makes defenseman look good or gets the most out of them is exaggerated because of how bad defensively as a TEAM they were in 17-18 under weight - but the forwards played a big role in that - Tavares, Bailey, Lee , Alan Quine were among the worst defensive forwards in the NHL. 17-18 also marked the year that Boychuk fell off a cliff, yet he was still used in a top pair role with Leddy.

What made the difference in Trotz's 1st year is that he gave Pelech + Pulock an increased role and didn't allow the forwards to cheat for offense. Mitch Korn worked his magic with the goaltenders which is one of the main reasons the isles had success that year. In Trotz's 4 years as HC he couldn't get Chara, Greene, Boychuk, or Leddy to have even an average defensive impact. If his system was that good at making D look better than they are, then it should at least make them serviceable. Which is why that narrative is BS, the players he had were just great players on their own.


Fwiw just about no one is able to make trash D-men look great and that's more on Lamoriello than Trotz for doing bad management. Three of your examples should've retired 5 years ago. Leddy's still seen as a decent offensive D-man, which was proven when Yzerman dealt the Räty pick for him. Advanced stats folk just like to hate on him.

Overall I'm still of the opinion that Trotz had 4 great D-men on his arsenal during his time there and he was able to extract the most of their potential as it was a solid environment for a D to develop. And I'm pretty sure just about any professional pundit will give you the same analysis.
May 18, 2022 at 8:37 a.m.
#1014
me wan da poonani
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Quoting: Juiceman
Just saw that homer Jets fan say the Guentzel for Scheifele does nothing for Winnipeg and that they decline.


The scary part is that I'm sure I've said something similarly outlandish on here.
Bias is a hell of a drug.
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May 18, 2022 at 8:50 a.m.
#1015
Hop on the Slaftrain
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Quoting: Juiceman
Just saw that homer Jets fan say the Guentzel for Scheifele does nothing for Winnipeg and that they decline.


It's so mind-boggling. According to him the Jets don't need or want anything but yet they been nothing more than a fringe playoff team for years. I have to imagine they need something somewhere.

I'm not even getting started on "Dubois is what you hope Wright becomes so there needs to be a major add to the 1st overall pick"

I swear they could get Bedard and they'd say "Winnipeg has no need for small right-shot forwards".
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May 18, 2022 at 8:52 a.m.
#1016
cautious optimism
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IMG-0384.jpg

Behold: a new meme template i made last night in a state of boredom
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May 18, 2022 at 8:54 a.m.
#1017
WentWughes
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Quoting: Juiceman
Just saw that homer Jets fan say the Guentzel for Scheifele does nothing for Winnipeg and that they decline.


I'd partially agree here. While Guentzel does have more value than Schiefele, if the Jets were to trade Scheifele, it would mean they are rebuilding.

Same goes for Pittsburgh, if you're trading Guentzel it's because you are rebuilding.

The trade doesn't really work for either team. Winnipeg can't fill the hole left by Scheifele, and Pittsburgh can't fill the hole left by Guentzel
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May 18, 2022 at 9:24 a.m.
#1018
Hop on the Slaftrain
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I'd partially agree here. While Guentzel does have more value than Schiefele, if the Jets were to trade Scheifele, it would mean they are rebuilding.

Same goes for Pittsburgh, if you're trading Guentzel it's because you are rebuilding.

The trade doesn't really work for either team. Winnipeg can't fill the hole left by Scheifele, and Pittsburgh can't fill the hole left by Guentzel


I don't think trading = immediate rebuild. In fact I'd be surprised if Scheifele is traded for mainly futures. It could be just a shakeup/retool because they already have a good young forward core (Ehlers, Dubois, Connor, Perfetti) that can take over the old guard Scheifele & Wheeler.
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May 18, 2022 at 9:28 a.m.
#1019
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
When is Boston going to start to rebuild, if Bergeron leaves, expect Marchand to leave, pasta is a ufa in 1 year, I can see them rebuilding next year and being 1 of the worst Atlantic teams


Jacobs family will not allow it. bruins should have fully rebuilt in 2014/15/16 and did a soft retool where they relied heavily on the top guys and didnt bring in enough talent to actually win anything. all the jacobs family cares about is playoff revenue. they dont care about winning a cup.
May 18, 2022 at 9:47 a.m.
#1020
me wan da poonani
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Quoting: DucharmetheDOMinator
When is Boston going to start to rebuild, if Bergeron leaves, expect Marchand to leave, pasta is a ufa in 1 year, I can see them rebuilding next year and being 1 of the worst Atlantic teams


It might make sense to consider to quickly rebuild / retool now.
Bergeron leaves, can make a killing from trading Pasta and possibly Marchand.
McAvoy and Swayman are still gonna be elite in two years.

On the other hand, they just signed Lindholm to that extension.
Would also be very harsh on Taylor Hall having him tied to yet another middling team.
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May 18, 2022 at 10:09 a.m.
#1021
cautious optimism
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend


We're reaching levels of dipsh*ttery that shouldn't even be possible.
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May 18, 2022 at 10:11 a.m.
#1022
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Edited May 18, 2022 at 10:24 a.m.
Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend


Its honestly getting to the point now where there is no point to keeping them in AZ.

But Gary Batman's tryna act like a hero and save the titanic with a yogurt container.
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May 18, 2022 at 10:12 a.m.
#1023
Ban Price trades
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Quoting: Tintin
It might make sense to consider to quickly rebuild / retool now.
Bergeron leaves, can make a killing from trading Pasta and possibly Marchand.
McAvoy and Swayman are still gonna be elite in two years.

On the other hand, they just signed Lindholm to that extension.
Would also be very harsh on Taylor Hall having him tied to yet another middling team.


Marchand yes, Pastrnak no:

You cannot find value in a trade involving Pastrnak that returns the kind of value that builds into a McAvoy/Swayman core because he IS that kind of piece. Any player returned that happens to be a few years younger is most likely a lesser piece. They have a few interesting options on the wing as it is and the Bruins really only lack two top-six pivots to become a truly contending team again. You could easily fetch one of those in a Marchand deal and they could just as easily sign Kadri to bridge the gap while a prospect taken in the 2022-23 draft percolates.
May 18, 2022 at 10:17 a.m.
#1024
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Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Its honestly getting to the point now where there is no point to keeping them in AZ. But Gary Batman's tryna act like a hero and save the titanic with a yogurt container.


Lmao, Weird analogy but on point
May 18, 2022 at 10:20 a.m.
#1025
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Lmao, Weird analogy but on point


IRL im known for weird analogys lmao
 
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