Forums/Armchair-GM

Winnipeg Toronto Swap

Created by: hockey_mike91
Initial Creation Date: May 17, 2022
Published: May 17, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Knies, Matthew3$950,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Sandin, Rasmus2$1,800,000
Liljegren, Timothy2$1,800,000
Engvall, Pierre2$1,500,000
Kase, Ondrej1$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Giordano, Mark1$1,500,000
Spezza, Jason1$750,000
Mikheyev, Ilya3$3,000,000
Stecher, Troy1$750,000
Blackwell, Colin1$750,000
Trades
1.
TOR
    ARI
    1. Mrázek, Petr
    2. 2023 4th round pick (TOR)
    2.
    TOR
    1. 2022 4th round pick (CBJ)
    CBJ
    1. Holl, Justin
    3.
    TOR
    1. Ehlers, Nikolaj
    WPG
    1. Nylander, William
    4.
    TOR
    1. Hellebuyck, Connor
    WPG
    1. Niemelä, Topi
    2. Knies, Matthew
    3. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
    4. 2022 3rd round pick (WPG)
    5.
    TOR
    1. 2022 2nd round pick (SEA)
    2. 2023 3rd round pick (CGY)
    SEA
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2022
    Logo of the SEA
    Logo of the CBJ
    Logo of the TOR
    2023
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    2024
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$82,500,000$82,306,583$212,500$0$193,417
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the TOR
    Bunting, Michael
    $950,000
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $796,667
    LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the WPG
    Ehlers, Nikolaj
    $6,000,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Engvall, Pierre
    $1,500,000
    LW, C
    RFA
    Logo of the TOR
    Kämpf, David
    $1,500,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Mikheyev, Ilya
    $3,000,000
    LW, RW
    UFA
    Logo of the TOR
    Kase, Ondrej
    $750,000
    RW
    RFA
    Logo of the TOR
    Spezza, Jason
    $750,000
    C, RW
    UFA
    Logo of the TOR
    Blackwell, Colin
    $750,000
    C, RW
    UFA
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the TOR
    Rielly, Morgan
    $7,500,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the WPG
    Hellebuyck, Connor
    $6,166,666
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $1,800,000
    LD/RD
    RFA
    Logo of the TOR
    Källgren, Erik
    $750,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Giordano, Mark
    $1,500,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $1,800,000
    RD
    RFA
    Stecher, Troy
    $750,000
    RD
    UFA
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the TOR
    Clifford, Kyle
    $762,500
    LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Simmonds, Wayne
    $900,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 1

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    May 17 at 11:47 a.m.
    #1
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    Take out Hellebuyck and Ehlers from Winnipeg and it is closer.
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    May 17 at 11:49 a.m.
    #2
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    Ehlers and Nylander are essentially the same player. I don't know why the Jets would trade Hellebuyck, but I imagine even with the down year, the term is decent on that contract and he's still good, so he will get back more.
    May 17 at 11:52 a.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    Ehlers and Nylander are essentially the same player. I don't know why the Jets would trade Hellebuyck, but I imagine even with the down year, the term is decent on that contract and he's still good, so he will get back more.


    Fair enough!

    What do you think it would take to get it done?
    TooMalevolent liked this.
    May 17 at 11:52 a.m.
    #4
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    Arizona isn't taking another goalie, I would imagine they'll have to buy out Mrazek if they want him off the roster.

    Do you honestly think that Jets trade makes the Leafs better, short or long term? Nylander > Ehlers (I am sure Jets fans would disagree) and the difference between Campbell and Hellebuyck isn't large enough for that price. Campbell didn't cost them the playoff series, he absolutely played well enough for them to win. I get Hellebuyck is good, but he's probably not worth the acquisition cost for the Leafs.

    The Leafs aren't going to be able to afford a top-tier starting goalie, because of their cap structure and because what it would take to get one. Not to mention how inconsistent goaltending can be to begin with.
    May 17 at 11:59 a.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: hockey_mike91
    Fair enough!

    What do you think it would take to get it done?


    If he's elite level like he was before this season, honestly return should be massive. If I was the Jets I would ask for 1st, Knies, Niemela. And I think I might be well low on it. This is a guy that when he was at his best, I don't think there was a goalie better. You saw how the Jets imploded because he had an average year. That's how bad that team is defensively- if their goalie is not the best in the world they are dreadful.
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    May 17 at 12:07 p.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    If he's elite level like he was before this season, honestly return should be massive. If I was the Jets I would ask for 1st, Knies, Niemela. And I think I might be well low on it. This is a guy that when he was at his best, I don't think there was a goalie better. You saw how the Jets imploded because he had an average year. That's how bad that team is defensively- if their goalie is not the best in the world they are dreadful.


    Why would the Jets want Niemela? Just to have another young, stud D prospect sit in the press box? lol

    Wish the Jets embraced the youth more!
    May 17 at 12:13 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: CapsJets
    Why would the Jets want Niemela? Just to have another young, stud D prospect sit in the press box? lol

    Wish the Jets embraced the youth more!


    Oh yeah. After that hellish year, I don't really know what direction they go in, who they trade, how they reload, or who they hire as far as coaching. But one thing should be certain. They have to embrace the youth. Big offseason for them obviously.
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    May 17 at 12:13 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    If he's elite level like he was before this season, honestly return should be massive. If I was the Jets I would ask for 1st, Knies, Niemela. And I think I might be well low on it. This is a guy that when he was at his best, I don't think there was a goalie better. You saw how the Jets imploded because he had an average year. That's how bad that team is defensively- if their goalie is not the best in the world they are dreadful.


    I agree with you, that's the gamble for both parties.

    In reality, he does likely bounce back to elite form and I think both teams management would agree. I think it would take a haul as well.

    1st, Knies, Niemela feels steep from a "Leafs" bias but you're right that it's likely a starting point.
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    May 17 at 12:16 p.m.
    #9
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    Oh yeah. After that hellish year, I don't really know what direction they go in, who they trade, how they reload, or who they hire as far as coaching. But one thing should be certain. They have to embrace the youth. Big offseason for them obviously.


    Absolutely agree. It'll be fun to see a transition this off season hopefully! Very curious if they ship of Schiefele too
    May 17 at 12:21 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: hockey_mike91
    I agree with you, that's the gamble for both parties.

    In reality, he does likely bounce back to elite form and I think both teams management would agree. I think it would take a haul as well.

    1st, Knies, Niemela feels steep from a "Leafs" bias but you're right that it's likely a starting point.


    Oh yeah it's a big ask. And personally I would but put Knies in most trades. But these are all future players. However, elite Hellebuyck of the years prior and the Leafs are upper favorites to win the cup. They are most definitely into round 2.
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    May 17 at 12:21 p.m.
    #11
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    No thanks from LA. We have no desire for Kerfoot.
    May 17 at 12:49 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: CapsJets
    Absolutely agree. It'll be fun to see a transition this off season hopefully! Very curious if they ship of Schiefele too


    What's your thoughts on trading him? Honestly as an outsider I'll tell you I am very anti Schiefele. He's a good player no doubt, especially offensively, but I find he is awful defensively. I'm also not a guy that goes for the whole "you have to be on all the time" bit (I don't think most players are Sid Crosby), but I think I dislike and critique Schiefele for his lack of engagement and back-checking more than others because he seems to have this rep that he does those things, and I very much don't think he does. And I hated his comments after the season. I would never have the temperament to be a GM because I would have traded him instantly for just that presser.

    But it's also tough. I thought PLD was a shoe-in to sign, but it appears that may not happen? So maybe you are left with this thing where you have to trade him. And then maybe keeping a guy that has committed and seems okay playing in that city is better.
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    May 17 at 1:04 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    Oh yeah it's a big ask. And personally I would but put Knies in most trades. But these are all future players. However, elite Hellebuyck of the years prior and the Leafs are upper favorites to win the cup. They are most definitely into round 2.


    I completely agree. I love Campbell, but I think we need an elite goalie to take the next step.

    Trading those futures though has all the makings of one you look back on in 5 years with a lot of regret (Especially the past few decades as a Leafs fan), but if you want to go for it all you have to pay to play.

    Does Winnipeg stay the same, just an off year? Competitive rebuild with futures? Full rebuild?

    Genuinely curious
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    May 17 at 1:07 p.m.
    #14
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    Edited May 17 at 1:18 p.m.
    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    What's your thoughts on trading him? Honestly as an outsider I'll tell you I am very anti Schiefele. He's a good player no doubt, especially offensively, but I find he is awful defensively. I'm also not a guy that goes for the whole "you have to be on all the time" bit (I don't think most players are Sid Crosby), but I think I dislike and critique Schiefele for his lack of engagement and back-checking more than others because he seems to have this rep that he does those things, and I very much don't think he does. And I hated his comments after the season. I would never have the temperament to be a GM because I would have traded him instantly for just that presser.

    But it's also tough. I thought PLD was a shoe-in to sign, but it appears that may not happen? So maybe you are left with this thing where you have to trade him. And then maybe keeping a guy that has committed and seems okay playing in that city is better.

    If I was the GM of Winnipeg he would be shipped. He's legit the worst defensive forward in the entire league (0% D-percentile). I think if you guys free up that cap space, get that mentality out of the locker room it may be the only real move you need to make.

    Winnipeg is a great team and likely just an off year.
    TooMalevolent liked this.
    May 17 at 1:08 p.m.
    #15
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    Quoting: PuckLuck_77
    No thanks from LA. We have no desire for Kerfoot.


    Fair enough, I'll make an edit. I know I had read they were interested in Engvall / Kerfoot but this was likely from 1-2 years ago.
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    May 17 at 1:13 p.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    What's your thoughts on trading him? Honestly as an outsider I'll tell you I am very anti Schiefele. He's a good player no doubt, especially offensively, but I find he is awful defensively. I'm also not a guy that goes for the whole "you have to be on all the time" bit (I don't think most players are Sid Crosby), but I think I dislike and critique Schiefele for his lack of engagement and back-checking more than others because he seems to have this rep that he does those things, and I very much don't think he does. And I hated his comments after the season. I would never have the temperament to be a GM because I would have traded him instantly for just that presser.

    But it's also tough. I thought PLD was a shoe-in to sign, but it appears that may not happen? So maybe you are left with this thing where you have to trade him. And then maybe keeping a guy that has committed and seems okay playing in that city is better.


    I'm very much on the fence. On one side, I see the reports that say how bad he is in the dressing room, and see his lack of effort on the defensive side of the puck. He's also so whinny to officials which is something else I can't stand. Also, if he doesn't wanna be here, than they may as well move on from him.

    But on the other side, top line centers don't grow on trees. He's a very good player, and having your top 3 up the middle as Schiefele, Dubios & Lowry is very solid IMO (maybe I'm bias as a fan lol)

    But yeah that's another issue too, really hope Dubios signs here!
    TooMalevolent liked this.
    May 17 at 1:23 p.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: hockey_mike91
    Fair enough, I'll make an edit. I know I had read they were interested in Engvall / Kerfoot but this was likely from 1-2 years ago.


    I don't ever recall the Kings saying they've had interest in Engvall or Kerfoot. The only place I've seen that is here where many Leafs fans tried to will it into being for an extended period of time.

    They've since moved on to Muzzin to LA, which is also a non-starter for the Kings.
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    May 17 at 1:42 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: PuckLuck_77
    I don't ever recall the Kings saying they've had interest in Engvall or Kerfoot. The only place I've seen that is here where many Leafs fans tried to will it into being for an extended period of time.

    They've since moved on to Muzzin to LA, which is also a non-starter for the Kings.


    Well that's the fun of being an Armchair GM, whether the media is saying it or a group of fans. Good entertainment!

    I agree Muzzin isn't going anywhere. He wouldn't waive and at the end of the day he's actually very good. The issue will be health moving forward.

    I don't think LA in general makes sense as a trade partner anymore, you guys are already now coming out of the rebuild and got some great young pieces. Fun team to watch over the next 3 years and beyond.

    I know we're going to have nightmares about Durzi lol
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    May 17 at 1:55 p.m.
    #19
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    Quoting: hockey_mike91
    Well that's the fun of being an Armchair GM, whether the media is saying it or a group of fans. Good entertainment!

    I agree Muzzin isn't going anywhere. He wouldn't waive and at the end of the day he's actually very good. The issue will be health moving forward.

    I don't think LA in general makes sense as a trade partner anymore, you guys are already now coming out of the rebuild and got some great young pieces. Fun team to watch over the next 3 years and beyond.

    I know we're going to have nightmares about Durzi lol


    Agree with pretty much all of what you just said.

    The cool thing about the LA-Toronto trades is that they seem to have worked out for both teams equally well. No, the Leafs haven't won past the 1st round, but they've still been incredibly successful otherwise. Campbell has turned into a heck of a goalie, Muzz was great for you for the past few years, and even Clifford had his parts to play.

    On the flip side, LA is sitting pretty with Moore, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Bjornfot.
    May 17 at 2:12 p.m.
    #20
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    Quoting: PuckLuck_77
    Agree with pretty much all of what you just said.

    The cool thing about the LA-Toronto trades is that they seem to have worked out for both teams equally well. No, the Leafs haven't won past the 1st round, but they've still been incredibly successful otherwise. Campbell has turned into a heck of a goalie, Muzz was great for you for the past few years, and even Clifford had his parts to play.

    On the flip side, LA is sitting pretty with Moore, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Bjornfot.


    Completely agree with you! It's good when it works out for both parties (especially in different conferences)

    I'm a huge Leafs fan (born into it), but absolutely love the Kings. You got one of my hometown kids in Byfield, he was a rockstar player growing up here in minor hockey.
    TooMalevolent liked this.
    May 17 at 2:21 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: hockey_mike91
    I completely agree. I love Campbell, but I think we need an elite goalie to take the next step.

    Trading those futures though has all the makings of one you look back on in 5 years with a lot of regret (Especially the past few decades as a Leafs fan), but if you want to go for it all you have to pay to play.

    Does Winnipeg stay the same, just an off year? Competitive rebuild with futures? Full rebuild?

    Genuinely curious


    They are such a fascinating team. Do they retool to compete instantly, or are they alright with one more non-playoff year? If they are doing the latter, do you trade the goalie? If you do is his value lower now? Are you risking trading a guy that before this year was elite?

    I hope whatever they do, they don't go small either way. I read rumors about how randy carlyle might be someone they are interested in for coaching. I don't know about that. I want to see them go after someone big, and improve the other staff. I think it's best to trade Schiefele and Wheeler, but I think Wheeler is highly unlikely. If they could trade a Schiefele + and bring back a dman, or a two-way forward, that would be ideal. Hope they play the young guys, but I think it's imperative they bring them along well and the right way. I get these things wrong like everyone else (I thought Sam Bennett was going to be a stud), but I think Perfetti is a star. But he can't be a player that completely disregards his own end.
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    May 17 at 2:34 p.m.
    #22
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    Quoting: PuckLuck_77
    Agree with pretty much all of what you just said.

    The cool thing about the LA-Toronto trades is that they seem to have worked out for both teams equally well. No, the Leafs haven't won past the 1st round, but they've still been incredibly successful otherwise. Campbell has turned into a heck of a goalie, Muzz was great for you for the past few years, and even Clifford had his parts to play.

    On the flip side, LA is sitting pretty with Moore, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Bjornfot.


    Yeah I see it the same way. By the nature of the timeline and the age of the players, it was always going to seem like a win for the Kings if the Leafs did not get far in the playoffs. And that has happened. I guess technically it can still look good for the leafs, but they might have wasted some elite defensive seasons from Muzzin, and who knows if Campbell is back. Players like Moore and Durzi being complete Dubas finds does instill confidence that he can do that part well, but great job by the king's getting those players.
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    May 17 at 2:37 p.m.
    #23
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    Quoting: TooMalevolent
    They are such a fascinating team. Do they retool to compete instantly, or are they alright with one more non-playoff year? If they are doing the latter, do you trade the goalie? If you do is his value lower now? Are you risking trading a guy that before this year was elite?

    I hope whatever they do, they don't go small either way. I read rumors about how randy carlyle might be someone they are interested in for coaching. I don't know about that. I want to see them go after someone big, and improve the other staff. I think it's best to trade Schiefele and Wheeler, but I think Wheeler is highly unlikely. If they could trade a Schiefele + and bring back a dman, or a two-way forward, that would be ideal. Hope they play the young guys, but I think it's imperative they bring them along well and the right way. I get these things wrong like everyone else (I thought Sam Bennett was going to be a stud), but I think Perfetti is a star. But he can't be a player that completely disregards his own end.


    100%
    It would be a tough decision, these upcoming drafts are stacked. So as a management team you'd want to make a commitment in either direction, nothing half-assed.
    You either rebuild and focus on youth or you push to remain a contender. In terms of Perfetti... he IS and WILL be a star. His defensive impacts are actually fantastic (92% percentile). Will be a fun player to watch for years to come.

    Trading Scheifele may actually make your team instantly better, which is hard to believe. His defensive impacts are the worst in the league (0% percentile). He reminds me of the kids you used to play with as a kid in the higher levels that you just hated to have on your team.

    Either way, with all that said you have a chance at a bounce back season and still contend OR you blow it up and stock up in these top tier drafts.
    TooMalevolent liked this.
     
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