Forums/Armchair-GM

Getting Younger and 2nd OVA

Created by: Campabee
Initial Creation Date: May 28, 2022
Published: May 28, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Team Explanation
Wright and Nemec are returned to JR or sent to Laval based on eligibility.

Not sure if the Canucks trade makes sense for them but the rumor is they are not resigning Halak and will be looking for a tandem/backup goalie for Demko.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Georgiev, Alexandar3$2,500,000
Kravtsov, Vitali1$1,000,000
Montembeault, Samuel2$850,000
Pezzetta, Michael2$850,000
Pitlick, Rem2$1,500,000
Primeau, Cayden2$925,000
Romanov, Alexander2$2,250,000
Schueneman, Corey2$850,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Dauphin, Laurent1$750,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Wright, Shane3$925,000
Nemec, Simon3$925,000
Trades
1.
MTL
  1. Kravtsov, Vitali [RFA Rights]
  2. Georgiev, Alexandar [RFA Rights]
NYR
  1. 2022 2nd round pick (EDM)
  2. 2022 7th round pick (MTL)
  3. 2023 3rd round pick (MTL)
2.
MTL
  1. 2022 1st round pick (CAR)
Weber's contract is worth a 3rd, Norlinder's value is a 2nd, together = late 1st
ARI
  1. Weber, Shea
  2. Norlinder, Mattias
3.
MTL
  1. 2022 1st round pick (WSH)
WSH
  1. 2022 1st round pick (CGY)
  2. 2022 1st round pick (CAR)
4.
MTL
  1. 2022 1st round pick (VAN)
VAN
  1. Allen, Jake ($1,000,000 retained)
  2. 2022 1st round pick (WSH)
5.
MTL
  1. 2022 1st round pick (NJD)
NJD
  1. Anderson, Josh
  2. Ylönen, Jesse
  3. 2022 1st round pick (VAN)
Additional Details:
I feel like 15th + Anderson + Yelonen is an overpay but it is worth exploring IMO
Buyouts
  • Karl Alzner: $833,333
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Jake Allen: $1,000,000 (34.78%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
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Logo of the CAR
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2023
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Logo of the FLA
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Logo of the CGY
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2024
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$77,077,499$1,132,500$1,777,500$5,422,501
Left WingCenterRight Wing
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Caufield, Cole
$880,833
LW, RW
RFA - 1
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Suzuki, Nick
$7,875,000
C
UFA - 8
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Gallagher, Brendan
$6,500,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 5
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Drouin, Jonathan
$5,500,000
LW, RW, C
NTC
UFA - 1
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Dvorak, Christian
$4,450,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
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Hoffman, Mike
$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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Pitlick, Rem
$1,500,000
LW, C
RFA
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Evans, Jake
$1,700,000
C, RW
UFA - 3
Kravtsov, Vitali
$1,000,000
RW
RFA - 1
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Byron, Paul
$3,400,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
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Poehling, Ryan
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
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Armia, Joel
$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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Edmundson, Joel
$3,500,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
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Petry, Jeff
$6,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
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Price, Carey
$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
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Guhle, Kaiden
$863,333
LD
RFA - 3
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Romanov, Alexander
$2,250,000
LD/RD
RFA
Georgiev, Alexandar
$2,500,000
G
RFA
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Harris, Jordan
$842,500
LD
RFA - 1
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Savard, David
$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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Pezzetta, Michael
$850,000
LW, RW
RFA
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Schueneman, Corey
$850,000
LD/RD
RFA
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Dauphin, Laurent
$750,000
C
UFA

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May 28 at 11:06 a.m.
#1
KFTW
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Yeesh
May 28 at 11:07 a.m.
#2
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Arizona aren't trading one of their 1sts, let alone for that package. We aren't giving a 3rd for Weber's contract, either. You can attach a 2nd to it and then maybe we'll take it.
May 28 at 11:10 a.m.
#3
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Quoting: Kartana
Arizona aren't trading one of their 1sts, let alone for that package. We aren't giving a 3rd for Weber's contract, either. You can attach a 2nd to it and then maybe we'll take it.


Except for the fact that the deal was already done at the deadline and the NHL nixed it. So yeah the Yotes are interested in acquiring his contract without us adding anything to it. Also considering that 1st is 29th-32nd, and you get a great young LD prospect. I know this deal would go through
May 28 at 11:14 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: csick
Yeesh


Great insight, so what's your issue with this?

The biggest question I see is the Vancouver trade, but I already outlined that in my description.
May 28 at 11:15 a.m.
#5
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Don’t think AZ is interested in trading 1st rd picks at all, but at least there is some solid rationale behind it especially if Weber’s actual pay is less than his cap hit.

NJ just don’t see the value for NJ in doing that especially considering they are just starting to hit their rise the 2nd overall could be a key contributor when they are truly ready to compete and given Anderson’s injury history just don’t see it.
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May 28 at 11:15 a.m.
#6
KFTW
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Quoting: Campabee
Great insight, so what's your issue with this?

The biggest question I see is the Vancouver trade, but I already outlined that in my description.


How is Weber + Norlinder = 1st.

And how is Anderson + Ylonen + Van pick = 2nd overall
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May 28 at 11:16 a.m.
#7
Chart Boi
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Yeah that’s an overpay. Take out Anderson and Ylonen
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May 28 at 11:21 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Xqb15a
Don’t think AZ is interested in 1st rd picks at all, but at least there is some solid rationale behind it especially if Weber’s actual pay is less than his cap hit.

NJ just don’t see the value for NJ in doing that especially considering they are just starting to hit their rise the 2nd overall could be a key contributor when they are truly ready to compete and given Anderson’s injury history just don’t see it.


With the Canes pick projecting to be 31st OVA and Norlinders value around the 40-45 pick I think they take this deal.

Jersey are already open to moving the 2nd pick and want a power forward in return. For added value I included the 15th OVA pick and Ylonen a projected top 6 ceiling or middle 6 floor prospect worth around the same as Norlinder. Basically this package equates to mid 1st (15th OVA) + 2 2nds and a 3rd (Ylonen = 2nd Anderson = 2nd + 3rd)
May 28 at 11:23 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: csick
How is Weber + Norlinder = 1st.

And how is Anderson + Ylonen + Van pick = 2nd overall


See above
May 28 at 11:25 a.m.
#10
MisstheWhalers
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Is Arizona really stupid enough to trade for a contract to reach the cap floor when they're like $10M away and still need to fill out the lineup? Sign a guy or two or get some picks/prospects to take some short term cap dumps, trading away a good asset to take on someone else's multi year problem is beyond dumb.
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May 28 at 11:28 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Yeah that’s an overpay. Take out Anderson and Ylonen


No, I don't think it's a huge overpay. I think it's about a 3rd too much but not worth fighting about. I think 15th OVA + 2 2nds (around the 40-45 pick range) would be enough to move up to 2nd since Yelonen and Anderson have this or more value this is an overpay (even if just a slight one)
May 28 at 11:30 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: Campabee
No, I don't think it's a huge overpay. I think it's about a 3rd too much but not worth fighting about. I think 15th OVA + 2 2nds (around the 40-45 pick range) would be enough to move up to 2nd since Yelonen and Anderson have this or more value this is an overpay (even if just a slight one)


Apparently they aren't the only ones, there was a few teams interested at the deadline (I believe the Sabres and Leafs were both in discussions)
May 28 at 11:31 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Campabee
Except for the fact that the deal was already done at the deadline and the NHL nixed it. So yeah the Yotes are interested in acquiring his contract without us adding anything to it. Also considering that 1st is 29th-32nd, and you get a great young LD prospect. I know this deal would go through


It was, but nixed as you said. So we got Bryan Little instead. Now it's not a need. We aren't that far off the cap floor and still need to fill out our roster. Also, a deal would look more like that deal. Montreal gets an asset, but so do we.
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May 28 at 11:31 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Campabee
With the Canes pick projecting to be 31st OVA and Norlinders value around the 40-45 pick I think they take this deal.

Jersey are already open to moving the 2nd pick and want a power forward in return. For added value I included the 15th OVA pick and Ylonen a projected top 6 ceiling or middle 6 floor prospect worth around the same as Norlinder. Basically this package equates to mid 1st (15th OVA) + 2 2nds and a 3rd (Ylonen = 2nd Anderson = 2nd + 3rd)


Yeah I get that, Nemec and Slafkovsky potential far outweigh that package imo. For me Anderson is the ultimate tease, speed and size, but he can’t stay healthy and he has never even been a 30 goal scorer. Reverse the position would you trade the 2OA for a 28yr old winger that’s never scored 30 goals, a C prospect that couldn’t get into the line up on a team decimated by injuries and a mid 1st rd pick. I sure wouldn’t do it.
May 28 at 11:38 a.m.
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Canucks pass. Spencer Martin will be our backup next year, and even if we wanted to bring in another goalie I’d rather sign one in FA than move down in the draft to get one
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May 28 at 11:41 a.m.
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-Rangers probably take that deal - every sign points to them moving on from Georgiev, and last I heard Kravstov wasn't gonna come back for them, so getting a few chances at ELC players on a team that needs them is a win for both sides.

-I can see the logic in this trade - but if I'm Bill Armstrong I'd probably want to have another mid-round pick coming along with that package.

Let's look at the draft trade values then - I'm going to reference Dom @ The Athletic's draft pick value chart as a guideline - there's not a ton else out there assigning easily digestible point values to picks. Also doing a quick look at recent draft pick trades, the team moving up always gives up a little more value than the team trading back, so we'll always assume Montreal is sacrificing pick value to move up.

Calgary (27 OA = 3.2 GSVA) + Carolina (worst case is 32 OA = 2.8 GSVA) for Washington (20 OA = 4.0) has a lot of surplus value for Washington but I also couldn't see 27 & 32 getting you into the lottery, so it's a safe pick to target. Maybe Washington throws back a 3rd rounder to even it out?

So now you have 20OA (4.0) going to Vancouver for 15OA (4.9). The difference between the two picks would be equivalent to a mid/late 2nd rounder; I think that Jake Allen with $1M retained *might* equal that value - except for the fact that I don't think it makes a ton of sense for Vancouver to acquire him when they already have Thatcher Demko starting 60-65 games next year and Spencer Martin ready to clean up the last 15 or so. For the sake of argument, though, I'll call this fair.

Now you're making a HUGE jump - 15OA (4.9 GSVA) to 2OA (12.3). The difference in value between those picks is equal in value to the 7th overall pick, which leads me to this question: if you had the 7th overall pick, would *you* trade it for Jesse Ylonen & Josh Anderson? It's an insane underpay for the Devils - you are going to need to do much better than someone from your second tier of prospects and an overpaid winger with that much term left.
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May 28 at 11:42 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: Xqb15a
Yeah I get that, Nemec and Slafkovsky potential far outweigh that package imo. For me Anderson is the ultimate tease, speed and size, but he can’t stay healthy and he has never even been a 30 goal scorer. Reverse the position would you trade the 2OA for a 28yr old winger that’s never scored 30 goals, a C prospect that couldn’t get into the line up on a team decimated by injuries and a mid 1st rd pick. I sure wouldn’t do it.


1. Anderson has been basically healthy the last 2 years for the Habs. Sure he missed 4 games and 13 games in the last two years respectively but his time missed was just minor injuries.

2 Ylonen is a right winger prospect not a center prospect and played in 14 games this season. He also projects to be a more offensive version of Lehkonen who we just got a 1st + for at the deadline.

3. The total package IMO out weighs the risk on Slafkovsky or Nemec never making it. The Devils are looking to compete now not 2 years from now. That is what makes this package interesting for them as Ylonen is NHL ready now and Anderson fills a need for them.
May 28 at 11:45 a.m.
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Quoting: mv21227
Canucks pass. Spencer Martin will be our backup next year, and even if we wanted to bring in another goalie I’d rather sign one in FA than move down in the draft to get one


Yeah I wasn't sure on that on but 5 spots for Allen at 1.8 mil is fair IMO. The biggest question I had was regarding need though, since it doesn't work another team in that range might be better
May 28 at 11:46 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: Campabee
Yeah I wasn't sure on that on but 5 spots for Allen at 1.8 mil is fair IMO. The biggest question I had was regarding need though, since it doesn't work another team in that range might be better


Yeah it’s not the worst offer, although I feel like the Canucks aren’t the best fit
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May 28 at 11:55 a.m.
#20
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Quoting: mv21227
Yeah it’s not the worst offer, although I feel like the Canucks aren’t the best fit


That was what I was worried about was fit after they announced they weren't resigning Halak lol
May 28 at 12:19 p.m.
#21
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They look fine just not too jazzed about this 2OA in this draft. The Habs got the 26/27 pick and 33rd pick. They'll have a few shots at some kids with upside in a draft class that has development severely affected by covid. Cooley/Slaf aren't wow players. Nemec/Jiricek look like safer bets but the price to acquire the pick simply isnt worth the juice. You'd have to dangle a player like Guhle which I see the same upside as Nemec/Jiricek. So pass.
May 28 at 12:34 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Campabee
1. Anderson has been basically healthy the last 2 years for the Habs. Sure he missed 4 games and 13 games in the last two years respectively but his time missed was just minor injuries.

2 Ylonen is a right winger prospect not a center prospect and played in 14 games this season. He also projects to be a more offensive version of Lehkonen who we just got a 1st + for at the deadline.

3. The total package IMO out weighs the risk on Slafkovsky or Nemec never making it. The Devils are looking to compete now not 2 years from now. That is what makes this package interesting for them as Ylonen is NHL ready now and Anderson fills a need for them.


How is basically healthy missing 13 games this year? He isn’t worth being the center piece of a trade for 2OA sorry.

Ylonen will be 23 hasn’t even established he is a regular NHL player, Lehkonen had 2 full seasons and had 20+ pts, at the same age. I think it’s wishful thinking to think he is going to be anywhere near as good as Lehkonen.
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May 28 at 1:20 p.m.
#23
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Edited May 28 at 1:47 p.m.
Quoting: Xqb15a
How is basically healthy missing 13 games this year? He isn’t worth being the center piece of a trade for 2OA sorry.

Ylonen will be 23 hasn’t even established he is a regular NHL player, Lehkonen had 2 full seasons and had 20+ pts, at the same age. I think it’s wishful thinking to think he is going to be anywhere near as good as Lehkonen.


LMAO, Ylonen is 22 not 23, he was also under contract in Liiga where he was left for development in hos 19 and 20 yo years. He was sent to Laval halfway through his 21 yo season to help make the transition to NA easier and develop further. This year he has played a key role for the Rocket and was brought up when needed due to injuries. This was his first full season in NA and he has 36 points in 52 games playing for the Rocket. BTW this is the same route a lot of European prospects take and many of them dont make the NHL until 23-25 where they go on to have great careers. Lehkonen was not under contract and was brought up too fast by management at the time. He missed out on some key development that prevented his scoring abilities to be more of a threat at the NHL level.

BTW raantanen took the same route to the NHL as Ylonen has but he was given his shot at 21. By your logic Lehkonen had more value than Raantanen did at the same age cause he had 1 year at 20 points before Raantanen broke into the league, which is utter ridiculousness
May 28 at 2:19 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: Campabee
LMAO, Ylonen is 22 not 23, he was also under contract in Liiga where he was left for development in hos 19 and 20 yo years. He was sent to Laval halfway through his 21 yo season to help make the transition to NA easier and develop further. This year he has played a key role for the Rocket and was brought up when needed due to injuries. This was his first full season in NA and he has 36 points in 52 games playing for the Rocket. BTW this is the same route a lot of European prospects take and many of them dont make the NHL until 23-25 where they go on to have great careers. Lehkonen was not under contract and was brought up too fast by management at the time. He missed out on some key development that prevented his scoring abilities to be more of a threat at the NHL level.

BTW raantanen took the same route to the NHL as Ylonen has but he was given his shot at 21. By your logic Lehkonen had more value than Raantanen did at the same age cause he had 1 year at 20 points before Raantanen broke into the league, which is utter ridiculousness


Ylonen will be 23 when the season starts. Rantanen played 9 games at C with the Avs in 15-16 his d+1 year and was a 20 goal scorer in his 2nd year. But you go ahead and tell me how Rantanen followed the same path because before his age 23 season he had 80 goals.

Do me a favor don’t respond, I had you blocked because you are so condescending and such a homer and can’t handle anybody disagreeing with you.
May 28 at 3:04 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: Xqb15a
How is basically healthy missing 13 games this year? He isn’t worth being the center piece of a trade for 2OA sorry.

Ylonen will be 23 hasn’t even established he is a regular NHL player, Lehkonen had 2 full seasons and had 20+ pts, at the same age. I think it’s wishful thinking to think he is going to be anywhere near as good as Lehkonen.


The 13 games he missed were as a result of being cheapshotted. Not like he got injured just playing hockey.
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