Forums/NHL

2021-22 NHL Off-season Discussion Thread - #4

Jul. 1 at 9:09 p.m.
#51
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 10,347
Likes: 9,361
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Panarin got $11,500,000 signing bonus today... damn


That’s a lot for a PP specialist
Jul. 1 at 9:32 p.m.
#52
Chad of Chads
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 19,012
Likes: 15,528
Man was pondering this

But Toronto trading low for Zadina having him rebound and wiping it in Detroits face would be the best in your face to happen to that fanbase

That said knowing DET fans they will want an arm, a leg, and a first born child for that mistake of a draft pick

So probs not worth the hassle
Zuki9797, Saskleaf and Tintin liked this.
Jul. 1 at 11:23 p.m.
#53
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860
Quoting: Db1899
That’s a lot for a PP specialist


The only teams that’ll win with a 10m+ contract before the cap boost in a handful of years are Edmonton and Toronto.

They just aren’t affordable.
aadoyle liked this.
Jul. 1 at 11:44 p.m.
#54
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2020
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 4,155
Quoting: yikes
The only teams that’ll win with a 10m+ contract before the cap boost in a handful of years are Edmonton and Toronto.

They just aren’t affordable.


I don't really buy into that. They're plenty affordable if you're efficient with your cap space, both in terms of who you're handing those big contracts out to and what you do with the remainder of your money. After all, it's not like teams haven't had success with players making equivalent percentages to what $10m is under the current cap.
Jul. 2 at 12:02 a.m.
#55
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860
Edited Jul. 2 at 12:11 a.m.
Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I don't really buy into that. They're plenty affordable if you're efficient with your cap space, both in terms of who you're handing those big contracts out to and what you do with the remainder of your money. After all, it's not like teams haven't had success with players making equivalent percentages to what $10m is under the current cap.


Yeah but not many teams are able to get that kinda efficiency.
Tampas incredibly lucky plus they are internally/ intrinsically driven to try and be extraordinary.

Kuch, Point, Vasi - 9.5 each saving 1.5m total by not passing 10; but even more so lucky because these players are far worth more than 10m. Hedman at 7.7 (he’s played less than Darnell Nurse and Seth Jones), Stammer at 8.5 (big discount).
Franchise Winger
Franchise Center
Franchise Leader
Franchise Dman
Franchise Goalie

Find me another team with all those under 45m.

Toronto, nope. Edmonton, yeah nope. Each have the franchise winger Center/ Center Center down. But neither a franchise D or goalie, neither comparable to Stamkos (JT and RNH). Carolina? Nope. NYR, nope (panarin isn’t worth it). When you tally it up players around 9 through to the max, there aren’t THAT many that are worth it. It’s nearly half that aren’t worth it out of the top 30ish.

I mean ball parking like 40% are in poor taste, that’s not a great ratio.

Colorado met the criteria;
Franchise Center - 6m (needs new deal)
Franchise Winger - 9m
Franchise leader - 7m
Franchise D - 9
These 4 are basically 30m
Franchise goalie - ooooops
Instead - washed up islander @andrewladd @db1899 Toew, Elite C - Kadri replaced that goalie quesiton mark but Colorado is already running to the money problems that could be solved if they get some more buy in. There’s a kid named Bowen Byram that’s looking for a few bills.
aadoyle, LeafsFanForSomeReason, EsoYeezus69 and 3 others liked this.
Jul. 2 at 12:54 a.m.
#56
Chad of Chads
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 19,012
Likes: 15,528
How much you think it would cost to get Gabriel Vilardi from the Kings

I honestly feel with how things are going rn his time with them is up as if we look at the team rn for ones hes got no spot and per recent reports they have become impatient with his development and other guys are progressing quicker so a trade might be beneficial for both sides
Saskleaf liked this.
Jul. 2 at 1:08 a.m.
#57
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2020
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 4,155
Quoting: yikes
Yeah but not many teams are able to get that kinda efficiency.
Tampas incredibly lucky plus they are internally/ intrinsically driven to try and be extraordinary.

Kuch, Point, Vasi - 9.5 each saving 1.5m total by not passing 10; but even more so lucky because these players are far worth more than 10m. Hedman at 7.7 (he’s played less than Darnell Nurse and Seth Jones), Stammer at 8.5 (big discount).
Franchise Winger
Franchise Center
Franchise Leader
Franchise Dman
Franchise Goalie

Find me another team with all those under 45m.

Toronto, nope. Edmonton, yeah nope. Each have the franchise winger Center/ Center Center down. But neither a franchise D or goalie, neither comparable to Stamkos (JT and RNH). Carolina? Nope. NYR, nope (panarin isn’t worth it). When you tally it up players around 9 through to the max, there aren’t THAT many that are worth it. It’s nearly half that aren’t worth it out of the top 30ish.

I mean ball parking like 40% are in poor taste, that’s not a great ratio.

Colorado met the criteria;
Franchise Center - 6m (needs new deal)
Franchise Winger - 9m
Franchise leader - 7m
Franchise D - 9
These 4 are basically 30m
Franchise goalie - ooooops
Instead - washed up islander andrewladd db1899 Toew, Elite C - Kadri replaced that goalie quesiton mark but Colorado is already running to the money problems that could be solved if they get some more buy in. There’s a kid named Bowen Byram that’s looking for a few bills.


Getting the efficiency is the gig, though. I'm not saying it's easy, but that's why there's good teams and bad teams. If you're pragmatic with your cap space, and able to secure some excess value throughout your lineup, having $10m+ contracts (to players that are worth it) isn't detrimental. If you can't mange it as a GM, it's kinda your own fault.
yikes and Hurricanes_WPG liked this.
Jul. 2 at 11:13 a.m.
#58
Ovchinnikov 137
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 6,650
Likes: 8,045
Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I don't really buy into that. They're plenty affordable if you're efficient with your cap space, both in terms of who you're handing those big contracts out to and what you do with the remainder of your money. After all, it's not like teams haven't had success with players making equivalent percentages to what $10m is under the current cap.


Quoting: yikes
Yeah but not many teams are able to get that kinda efficiency.
Tampas incredibly lucky plus they are internally/ intrinsically driven to try and be extraordinary.

Kuch, Point, Vasi - 9.5 each saving 1.5m total by not passing 10; but even more so lucky because these players are far worth more than 10m. Hedman at 7.7 (he’s played less than Darnell Nurse and Seth Jones), Stammer at 8.5 (big discount).
Franchise Winger
Franchise Center
Franchise Leader
Franchise Dman
Franchise Goalie

Find me another team with all those under 45m.

Toronto, nope. Edmonton, yeah nope. Each have the franchise winger Center/ Center Center down. But neither a franchise D or goalie, neither comparable to Stamkos (JT and RNH). Carolina? Nope. NYR, nope (panarin isn’t worth it). When you tally it up players around 9 through to the max, there aren’t THAT many that are worth it. It’s nearly half that aren’t worth it out of the top 30ish.

I mean ball parking like 40% are in poor taste, that’s not a great ratio.

Colorado met the criteria;
Franchise Center - 6m (needs new deal)
Franchise Winger - 9m
Franchise leader - 7m
Franchise D - 9
These 4 are basically 30m
Franchise goalie - ooooops
Instead - washed up islander andrewladd db1899 Toew, Elite C - Kadri replaced that goalie quesiton mark but Colorado is already running to the money problems that could be solved if they get some more buy in. There’s a kid named Bowen Byram that’s looking for a few bills.


All great points here, I would also add the pandemic has to play a major roll here when talking about the Leafs. When they signed JT and (Nylander, Matthews, Marner) they were predicting the cap to be at least 6-8 mil dollars higher.

After Stamkos' deal, the cap went from 64.3M to 73M (+13.5%)
In MacKinnon's deal, the cap has gone from 73M to 81.5M) (+11.6%)
Since Toronto signed Tavares+Nylander, the cap has gone from 79.5M to 81.5M (+2.5%)
Since Toronto signed Matthews+Marner, the cap has increased by $0

The pandemic flat cap as f’d a lot of teams but especially the Leafs and their vision on how to build a team. Now they need to adjust like everyone else.
yikes, LeafsFanForSomeReason, Tintin and 2 others liked this.
Jul. 2 at 11:19 a.m.
#59
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860
Quoting: MatthewsFan
All great points here, I would also add the pandemic has to play a major roll here when talking about the Leafs. When they signed JT and (Nylander, Matthews, Marner) they were predicting the cap to be at least 6-8 mil dollars higher.

After Stamkos' deal, the cap went from 64.3M to 73M (+13.5%)
In MacKinnon's deal, the cap has gone from 73M to 81.5M) (+11.6%)
Since Toronto signed Tavares+Nylander, the cap has gone from 79.5M to 81.5M (+2.5%)
Since Toronto signed Matthews+Marner, the cap has increased by $0

The pandemic flat cap as f’d a lot of teams but especially the Leafs and their vision on how to build a team. Now they need to adjust like everyone else.


very good point. I don't blame the Marner/Matthews/McDavid contracts either - as each player has proved their value with the only one I argue would be nice having for less is Mitch.
MatthewsFan liked this.
Jul. 2 at 11:31 a.m.
#60
Ovchinnikov 137
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 6,650
Likes: 8,045
Quoting: yikes
very good point. I don't blame the Marner/Matthews/McDavid contracts either - as each player has proved their value with the only one I argue would be nice having for less is Mitch.


I’m not trying to give the Leafs management team an out here either. There inabilities to add effective players coming in on there ELC and produce has made them have to go dumpster diving for reclamation projects hoping one hits.

Now I put that blame squarely on Hunter’s drafting and am hopeful for the likes of Robertson, Knies, Niemela, Steeves, Holmberg, etc.

Hopefully we some of it next year.
Jul. 2 at 12:19 p.m.
#61
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2020
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 4,155
Quoting: MatthewsFan
All great points here, I would also add the pandemic has to play a major roll here when talking about the Leafs. When they signed JT and (Nylander, Matthews, Marner) they were predicting the cap to be at least 6-8 mil dollars higher.

After Stamkos' deal, the cap went from 64.3M to 73M (+13.5%)
In MacKinnon's deal, the cap has gone from 73M to 81.5M) (+11.6%)
Since Toronto signed Tavares+Nylander, the cap has gone from 79.5M to 81.5M (+2.5%)
Since Toronto signed Matthews+Marner, the cap has increased by $0

The pandemic flat cap as f’d a lot of teams but especially the Leafs and their vision on how to build a team. Now they need to adjust like everyone else.


Absolutely. It's no secret the Leafs were hit harder than most by the pandemic. All in all though, I really don't think they've allowed it to hinder them too much. They've done a great job (for the most part) of finding cheap deals that provide more value than their cap hit would warrant, which was always part of the plan, just ideally they'd have even more high end talent playing above those guys.
MatthewsFan and yikes liked this.
Jul. 2 at 12:20 p.m.
#62
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 7,745
Likes: 6,870




What's even the purpose of this? Bury him in the minors for the year instead of having that on your cap for 2 years
Devil, Zuki9797 and Saskleaf liked this.
Jul. 2 at 12:56 p.m.
#63
57 year hockey nut.
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2017
Posts: 22,498
Likes: 24,660
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS




What's even the purpose of this? Bury him in the minors for the year instead of having that on your cap for 2 years


Exactly what I was about to say.

Maybe they wanted an extra roster spot but it still doesn't make sense
Jul. 2 at 12:58 p.m.
#64
v5 CBJ GM
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 10,832
Likes: 14,726
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS




What's even the purpose of this? Bury him in the minors for the year instead of having that on your cap for 2 years






Maybe this
DirtyDangle liked this.
Jul. 2 at 1:07 p.m.
#65
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860





Jul. 2 at 1:34 p.m.
#66
Chad of Chads
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 19,012
Likes: 15,528
Quoting: yikes







This Tweet Rant gets a 11/10

As hes so right it left a mark
Alfie11, AndrewLadd and justaBoss liked this.
Jul. 2 at 2:07 p.m.
#67
v5 CBJ GM
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 10,832
Likes: 14,726
Quoting: yikes







You can’t compare the NBA to the NHL lol, the NBA has much smaller rosters and you’re able to throw around money much more than the NHL
Jul. 2 at 2:26 p.m.
#68
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2020
Posts: 9,211
Likes: 8,565
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
You can’t compare the NBA to the NHL lol, the NBA has much smaller rosters and you’re able to throw around money much more than the NHL

The only reason you can’t compare the NBA to the NHL is because one league is a joke and it’s not the NBA. The NHLPA may be the most useless and incompetent organization in the world.
BeterChiarelli and yikes liked this.
Jul. 2 at 2:55 p.m.
#69
Ban Price trades
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 5,836
Likes: 5,498
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Maybe this


It could be a favour to the player too: not every NHL/AHL franchise is keen on accepting loans from other clubs - Nashville may not want to pay Tennyson to play for someone else's club either - so the two camps mutually agree to part ways so the player can move on.
A_Habs_fan liked this.
Jul. 2 at 3:11 p.m.
#70
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
You can’t compare the NBA to the NHL lol, the NBA has much smaller rosters and you’re able to throw around money much more than the NHL


It’s cause while Bettman helped implement a good system into the NBA before he joined the NHL, Adam Silver is easily the best commissioner in all of major sports. The NHL needs a luxury cap; and the league will easily perform better imo (again work needs to be done rather than just adding a new system).

Gary’s done a lot right but also a lot wrong.
Jul. 2 at 3:36 p.m.
#71
Ban Price trades
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 5,836
Likes: 5,498
Quoting: yikes
Gary’s done a lot right but also a lot wrong.


I really don't think this lies solely at the feet of Bettman. His job is to grow the league into a cash machine at the scale of the NBA and NFL so naturally, anyone in the commissioner's seat would have that ideology as a driving force in the decisions the league makes. However, there are clusters of club owners that have a very large amount of sway when it comes to league happenings. The Bruins owner is one such individual.

Imagine you're Mr. Jeremy Jacobs and you're presented with the idea of a luxury tax that will year-over-year allow your historic rivals - the Montreal Canadiens and Toronto Maple Leafs - to spend far and away more cash dollars than any other team in hockey to better their clubs. If Mr. JAcobs is as much a Bruins fan as he is their owner, I'm certain the man would rather face a firing squad than permit the Habs or Leafs to put their name on another Stanley Cup. If hockey is ultimately a business, can you compete with these ultra-wealthy teams once that box is opened and you factor in playoff revenues? Merchandising? I think the Bruins would be fine but how do you as an owner vote for something that inherently makes your rivals better when your team is at the precipice of a decline?

Hockey ultimately needs new voices to lead the sport. Top to bottom from the commissioner's seat, to player safety, to the way officiating is handled, even to how owners vote on changes to the sport before the NHLPA gets a say the NHL needs a massive overhaul. Bettman is only one part of the body of rot.
AndrewLadd, yikes, A_Habs_fan and 1 other person liked this.
Jul. 2 at 3:40 p.m.
#72
Eklund-Bords-Goosh
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 9,059
Likes: 11,860
Quoting: BeterChiarelli
I really don't think this lies solely at the feet of Bettman. His job is to grow the league into a cash machine at the scale of the NBA and NFL so naturally, anyone in the commissioner's seat would have that ideology as a driving force in the decisions the league makes. However, there are clusters of club owners that have a very large amount of sway when it comes to league happenings. The Bruins owner is one such individual.

Imagine you're Mr. Jeremy Jacobs and you're presented with the idea of a luxury tax that will year-over-year allow your historic rivals - the Montreal Canadiens and Toronto Maple Leafs - to spend far and away more cash dollars than any other team in hockey to better their clubs. If Mr. JAcobs is as much a Bruins fan as he is their owner, I'm certain the man would rather face a firing squad than permit the Habs or Leafs to put their name on another Stanley Cup. If hockey is ultimately a business, can you compete with these ultra-wealthy teams once that box is opened and you factor in playoff revenues? Merchandising? I think the Bruins would be fine but how do you as an owner vote for something that inherently makes your rivals better when your team is at the precipice of a decline?

Hockey ultimately needs new voices to lead the sport. Top to bottom from the commissioner's seat, to player safety, to the way officiating is handled, even to how owners vote on changes to the sport before the NHLPA gets a say the NHL needs a massive overhaul. Bettman is only one part of the body of rot.


Oh yeah that’s why I said he’s done a lot right, and he gets very little credit for the works he’s done for the league. And he’s had to navigate some challenging waters.

But yeah after Hockey Canadas fiasco; the entirety of the hockey needs a reevaluation - which I don’t expect much. Don’t have my hopes up, but I’d like to be shocked.
BeterChiarelli and Zuki9797 liked this.
Jul. 2 at 3:45 p.m.
#73
v5 CBJ GM
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2020
Posts: 10,832
Likes: 14,726
Quoting: yikes
It’s cause while Bettman helped implement a good system into the NBA before he joined the NHL, Adam Silver is easily the best commissioner in all of major sports. The NHL needs a luxury cap; and the league will easily perform better imo (again work needs to be done rather than just adding a new system).

Gary’s done a lot right but also a lot wrong.


The NHL does not need a luxury cap, it’s a hard cap or tax adjusted cap that’s the best move, levels the playing field the most that way, I’d much rather have 32 teams on decently equal payrolls, than the rich teams having a cap of 100mil and the poor teams having a 70mil team
Jul. 2 at 3:53 p.m.
#74
retired
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2020
Posts: 8,893
Likes: 4,756
the game is way better with a salary cap than it was before. no thanks going to a pay to win system
yikes, Saskleaf, Zuki9797 and 3 others liked this.
Jul. 2 at 3:54 p.m.
#75
Ban Price trades
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2017
Posts: 5,836
Likes: 5,498
Quoting: yikes
Oh yeah that’s why I said he’s done a lot right, and he gets very little credit for the works he’s done for the league. And he’s had to navigate some challenging waters.

But yeah after Hockey Canadas fiasco; the entirety of the hockey needs a reevaluation - which I don’t expect much. Don’t have my hopes up, but I’d like to be shocked.


I'm actually incredibly optimistic given the way the corporate sponsors have ejected themselves from Hockey Canada's revenue stream. Everything that's gone wrong with Hockey Canada is a textbook example of - and I know there is a group of you that will roll your eyes at this - unchecked privilege. Canada has sat atop the world leaderboards in ice hockey for virtually my entire life and with this comes the notion of complacency. Perhaps not in the direct on-ice result but in terms of background checks, ethics, and general human decency. Winning becomes the only essential mantra when you've been #1 for the better part of two and a half decades, which will lead the off-ice decisions down very immoral pathways. Cover-ups, scandals, we're seeing these things come to light today.

Losing that revenue stream will force change and hopefully the vetting process improves. An injection of new voices is sorely overdue: the process by which Canadian talent is being developed is stagnating when compared to the American and Swedish programs. The status quo doesn't work anymore, top to bottom.
yikes liked this.
 
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll