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Forums/Armchair-GM

Subject to change

Created by: chefed
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 14, 2022
Published: Jul. 15, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,600,000
2$1,900,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
2$1,700,000
4$2,100,000
1$2,250,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Kane, Patrick
1$2,625,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Kane, Patrick ($5,250,000 retained)
CHI
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. Robertson, Nicholas
  3. 2024 1st round pick (TOR)
  4. 2025 1st round pick (TOR)
2.
TOR
    Salary retention on Kane 2625000
    ANA
    1. 2024 4th round pick (TOR)
    3.
    TOR
    1. 2024 7th round pick (ANA)
    ANA
    1. Muzzin, Jake
    Additional Details:
    On his way to LA with 50% retention
    4.
    LAK
    1. Abruzzese, Nick
    2. Holl, Justin
    3. 2023 3rd round pick (OTT)
    4. 2024 7th round pick (ANA)
    Additional Details:
    Going to Ducks for Muzzin
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2023
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    2024
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    2025
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$82,500,000$82,408,116$212,500$0$91,884
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $950,000$950,000
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,640,250$11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $10,903,000$10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $6,962,366$6,962,366
    RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $11,000,000$11,000,000
    C, LW
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Kane, Patrick
    $2,625,000$2,625,000
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,600,000$1,600,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,500,000$1,500,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    $1,700,000$1,700,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $827,500$827,500
    C, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $2,100,000$2,100,000
    RW, C, LW
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $900,000$900,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $7,500,000$7,500,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $5,000,000$5,000,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $4,687,500$4,687,500
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,900,000$1,900,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
    $3,150,000$3,150,000
    RD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,800,000$1,800,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $800,000$800,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
    $1,400,000$1,400,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    RD
    UFA
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    -$2,625,000-$2,625,000
    RW
    NMC
    UFA - 1

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    Jul. 15, 2022 at 6:28 p.m.
    #1
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    Walker for Muzzin 50% off, or no thanks.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 7:25 p.m.
    #2
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    No, Roy isn't going anywhere. And $2,8125,000 in retention for two years costs you a lot more to Anaheim than a seventh.

    The only conceivable circumstances, from both a cap and an on-ice perspective, that Muzzin to Los Angeles could make sense are those set forth @tryger above.

    Before trying to construct trades, you should look carefully at the destination team's CapFriendly home page. There you would see that Los Angeles can only make an entirely cap-neutral trade from this point on.
    tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 7:39 p.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    No, Roy isn't going anywhere. And $2,8125,000 in retention for two years costs you a lot more to Anaheim than a seventh.

    The only conceivable circumstances, from both a cap and an on-ice perspective, that Muzzin to Los Angeles could make sense are those set forth tryger above.

    Before trying to construct trades, you should look carefully at the destination team's CapFriendly home page. There you would see that Los Angeles can only make an entirely cap-neutral trade from this point on.


    @tkecanuck341 proposed it first, it's the only Muzzin trade I've seen on this site that makes sense.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 7:45 p.m.
    #4
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    You can send Muzzin to LA via Anaheim if you want, but all the Kings will give up is Sean Walker. If the Leafs want to compensate Anaheim for retaining the 50% instead of doing it themselves, that's perfectly fine. Not sure why the Ducks would want to help facilitate a trade for their cross-town rivals though.
    OldNYIfan and tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 8:08 p.m.
    #5
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    Quoting: tryger
    tkecanuck341 proposed it first, it's the only Muzzin trade I've seen on this site that makes sense.


    Our friend @tkecanuck341 was the first to propose it in an ACGM, on July 13. Someone else proposed it in a comment on July 11.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/612718
    tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 8:15 p.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Our friend tkecanuck341 was the first to propose it in an ACGM, on July 13. Someone else proposed it in a comment on July 11.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/612718


    To be fair, I've been suggesting that swap for a lot longer than two days:
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/600917?post_id=3345939

    Edit: Apparently June 17th was the first time.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/598403?post_id=3327671
    OldNYIfan and tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:01 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: tryger
    Walker for Muzzin 50% off, or no thanks.


    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    No, Roy isn't going anywhere. And $2,8125,000 in retention for two years costs you a lot more to Anaheim than a seventh.

    The only conceivable circumstances, from both a cap and an on-ice perspective, that Muzzin to Los Angeles could make sense are those set forth @tryger above.

    Before trying to construct trades, you should look carefully at the destination team's CapFriendly home page. There you would see that Los Angeles can only make an entirely cap-neutral trade from this point on.


    Quoting: tryger
    @tkecanuck341 proposed it first, it's the only Muzzin trade I've seen on this site that makes sense.


    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    You can send Muzzin to LA via Anaheim if you want, but all the Kings will give up is Sean Walker. If the Leafs want to compensate Anaheim for retaining the 50% instead of doing it themselves, that's perfectly fine. Not sure why the Ducks would want to help facilitate a trade for their cross-town rivals though.


    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Our friend @tkecanuck341 was the first to propose it in an ACGM, on July 13. Someone else proposed it in a comment on July 11.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/612718


    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    To be fair, I've been suggesting that swap for a lot longer than two days:
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/600917?post_id=3345939

    Edit: Apparently June 17th was the first time.
    https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/598403?post_id=3327671

    Let me clarify the nuts and bolts of this trade
    Leaf's get Walker gain about 4.5m in cap space real money cost is an increase of 4.5m Walkers owed salary compared to Muzzins retained salary
    Kings get Muzzin gain 340k in cap space and save 4.5 m in wage cost
    Ducks get Holl ,Nick and a 3rd they take on 4.8 of Cap and pay 3m in retained wage cost plus Holls wage cost the retained cap helps them as they are still 9 m below cap floor

    To do these trades you need to look at cap space, real money cost ,needs and resources of the team
    Leafs and Kings have no cap space ducks have lots and need to spend
    Leafs need a rhd and to open a spot far Sandin
    Kings need a lhd and are overloaded at rhd with 4 on the roster plus Clarke 8 O/A 21 Grans 35 O/A on the way
    Muzzin has played with DD and Blake
    These trade are proposed everyday so I am not sure who was first
    CF has no way to show a 3 team deal so the 7th pick I put it in and took it out Hope this clears it up
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:15 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: chefed
    Let me clarify the nuts and bolts of this trade
    Leaf's get Walker gain about 4.5m in cap space real money cost is an increase of 4.5m Walkers owed salary compared to Muzzins retained salary
    Kings get Muzzin gain 340k in cap space and save 4.5 m in wage cost
    Ducks get Holl ,Nick and a 3rd they take on 4.8 of Cap and pay 3m in retained wage cost plus Holls wage cost the retained cap helps them as they are still 9 m below cap floor

    To do these trades you need to look at cap space, real money cost ,needs and resources of the team
    Leafs and Kings have no cap space ducks have lots and need to spend
    Leafs need a rhd and to open a spot far Sandin
    Kings need a lhd and are overloaded at rhd with 4 on the roster plus Clarke 8 O/A 21 Grans 35 O/A on the way
    Muzzin has played with DD and Blake
    These trade are proposed everyday so I am not sure who was first
    CF has no way to show a 3 team deal so the 7th pick I put it in and took it out Hope this clears it up


    It's utterly and pricelessly hilarious that you would presume to lecture us on our team's cap space, real money cost, needs and resources.

    Here's a resource: we need Roy; we don't need Muzzin.

    The most fatuous statement in your comment is that LA is "overloaded" at RD because we have four of them. It may not have occurred to you, but EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL carries 7 defensemen. Therefore, by definition, every team in the NHL is going to have 4 defenders on one side or the other -- that's not being "overloaded," it's being normal.

    Yes, these execrable Muzzin-to-Los-Angeles trades are proposed every day. My friend and I were teasing each other about who thought of the reasonable idea of Sean Walker for Muzzin with 50% retention first. He proved he did. Yor trade isn't in the same universe as that, and reveals an utter lack of understanding of the Kings' needs, resources, direction, team structure and management philosophy.
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    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:28 p.m.
    #9
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    It's utterly and pricelessly hilarious that you would presume to lecture us on our team's cap space, real money cost, needs and resources.

    Here's a resource: we need Roy; we don't need Muzzin.

    The most fatuous statement in your comment is that LA is "overloaded" at RD because we have four of them. It may not have occurred to you, but EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL carries 7 defensemen. Therefore, by definition, every team in the NHL is going to have 4 defenders on one side or the other -- that's not being "overloaded," it's being normal.

    Yes, these execrable Muzzin-to-Los-Angeles trades are proposed every day. My friend and I were teasing each other about who thought of the reasonable idea of Sean Walker for Muzzin with 50% retention first. He proved he did. Yor trade isn't in the same universe as that, and reveals an utter lack of understanding of the Kings' needs, resources, direction, team structure and management philosophy.


    Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:36 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: chefed
    Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it


    If you think exchanging Roy for Muzzin is a good hockey trade, then you have no business calling someone else's mental capacity into question. By the way, resorting to that kind of ad hominem attack when you have no factual support for a really bad idea is a very telling indictment of your own bad idea. A trade that works for both . . . what a joke.
    tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:38 p.m.
    #11
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    Quoting: tryger
    tkecanuck341 proposed it first, it's the only Muzzin trade I've seen on this site that makes sense.


    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    You can send Muzzin to LA via Anaheim if you want, but all the Kings will give up is Sean Walker. If the Leafs want to compensate Anaheim for retaining the 50% instead of doing it themselves, that's perfectly fine. Not sure why the Ducks would want to help facilitate a trade for their cross-town rivals though.


    I love the fact that this yutz is going to lecture us on "the nuts and bolts of this trade."
    tryger liked this.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:46 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    If you think exchanging Roy for Muzzin is a good hockey trade, then you have no business calling someone else's mental capacity into question. By the way, resorting to that kind of ad hominem attack when you have no factual support for a really bad idea is a very telling indictment of your own bad idea. A trade that works for both . . . what a joke.


    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    I love the fact that this yutz is going to lecture us on "the nuts and bolts of this trade."


    TMLDS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your rant is epic stupid. Again Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 10:50 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: chefed
    TMLDS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your rant is epic stupid. Again Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it


    Oh, yeah, now I remember -- you're the genius who thought Alex Turcotte and Matt Roy for Roni Hirvonen and Rasums Sandin was ANOTHER trade that "works for both teams"!

    It's obvious that Matt Roy is just dollar numbers on a page and that you have absolutely no clue about his on-ice value in general or his value to the Kings in particular.
    Jul. 15, 2022 at 11:12 p.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Oh, yeah, now I remember -- you're the genius who thought Alex Turcotte and Matt Roy for Roni Hirvonen and Rasums Sandin was ANOTHER trade that "works for both teams"!

    It's obvious that Matt Roy is just dollar numbers on a page and that you have absolutely no clue about his on-ice value in general or his value to the Kings in particular.


    I should have explained that to you as well Roy is UFA in 2 years Sandin and Hivonen are years away from that This trade would also save LA over1.5 m in cap space plus they have immediate replacements on the team at rhd and need a lhd So here we go again TMLDS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your rant is epic stupid. Again Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it I see we have another yutz that complains about every TML trade with no basis in fact
    Jul. 16, 2022 at 3:56 a.m.
    #15
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    Quoting: chefed
    I should have explained that to you as well Roy is UFA in 2 years Sandin and Hivonen are years away from that This trade would also save LA over1.5 m in cap space plus they have immediate replacements on the team at rhd and need a lhd So here we go again TMLDS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your rant is epic stupid. Again Sorry I cannot help you with your TMLDS . A trade that works for both for is still a good trade even if you lack the hockey sense or mental capacity to understand it I see we have another yutz that complains about every TML trade with no basis in fact


    I will concede that it's a very good trade for the Leafs. Not so much for the Kings.
    Jul. 16, 2022 at 10:02 a.m.
    #16
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    Quoting: chefed
    Let me clarify the nuts and bolts of this trade
    Leaf's get Walker gain about 4.5m in cap space real money cost is an increase of 4.5m Walkers owed salary compared to Muzzins retained salary
    Kings get Muzzin gain 340k in cap space and save 4.5 m in wage cost
    Ducks get Holl ,Nick and a 3rd they take on 4.8 of Cap and pay 3m in retained wage cost plus Holls wage cost the retained cap helps them as they are still 9 m below cap floor

    To do these trades you need to look at cap space, real money cost ,needs and resources of the team
    Leafs and Kings have no cap space ducks have lots and need to spend
    Leafs need a rhd and to open a spot far Sandin
    Kings need a lhd and are overloaded at rhd with 4 on the roster plus Clarke 8 O/A 21 Grans 35 O/A on the way
    Muzzin has played with DD and Blake
    These trade are proposed everyday so I am not sure who was first
    CF has no way to show a 3 team deal so the 7th pick I put it in and took it out Hope this clears it up


    I’m not trying to get into a shouting match here. But, I think it’s the leafs who need to spend and the Kings are not in such a dire situation.

    The Kings after signing Anderson and Durzi are basically set.

    From the Kings perspective our weakness was at the LD2 position, we have addressed that with the signing of Edler and Walker being able to play the opposite side. Add that the Kings also have the option to play Bjornfot and Moverare at LD and the Kings are essentially set.

    Now I won’t doubt Muzzin would be welcome back at a lesser cap hit, but the issue is there are so many hurdles to jump to make this make sense.

    1. Muzzin would need to agree to waive his NTC, seeing this move as his best chance to win a cup
    2. Anaheim would need to accept retention to help a division rival in a weak division
    3. LA would trade for an older player (30+) for the first time since a rebuild
    4. The Kings would be trading for a player they traded away, this is an incredibly uncommon thing for the Kings to do historically
    5. If muzzin were to waive only to one team, Blake would hold all the leverage, Dubas doesn’t tend to make (bad) desperation moves especially if he’s retaining
    6. Muzzin and Durzi/Spence/Walker would be problematic, he’d need a player like Roy to play a stay-at-home role

    I think the Kings fans on this site see a Muzzin trade on the daily here, from our news media there are no wheels to this. And from what I’ve read real Toronto beat writers know there is nothing there for Muzzin back to LA either. If the Leafs need the cap space move Holl and/Kerfoot and get your shut down RD from the free agency.
    Jul. 16, 2022 at 11:06 a.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: chefed
    I should have explained that to you as well Roy is UFA in 2 years

    Thank you for “explaining” that Matt Roy is a UFA in two years. As a resident of Los Angeles and a fan of the Kings for only 35 years, I don’t pay much attention to contract status.

    Since you’re so good at “explaining” the obvious, perhaps you can “explain” this:

    EDLER, Alex: 41 games . . . . . 3 goals, 19 points . . . . . +18 . . . . . 52.1 Corsi . . . . . 54.4 Fenwick . . . . . new cap hit of $750,000
    MUZZIN, Jake: 47 games . . . 3 goals, 14 points . . . . . -6 . . . . . . 48.1 Corsi . . . . . 47.9 Fenwick . . . . . same old cap hit of $5.625 million.

    And there are some subtle indications that Toronto was a better team than Los Angeles. Or don’t Maple Leaf fans believe that?

    And as long as you’re “explaining” things, perhaps you can explain why Jake Muzzin would waive his NTC to leave home? And why you keep saying "no basis in fact" but haven't responded to a single one of my factual showings?
     
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