Forums/Armchair-GM

Much needed cap space

Created by: SMH
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 18, 2022
Published: Jul. 18, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Primeau, Cayden2$900,000
Dach, Kirby3$2,750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Strålman, Anton1$3,000,000
Trades
1.
MTL
    Waivers
    NSH
    1. Hoffman, Mike
    2.
    MTL
    1. Girard, Samuel
    2. Compher, J.T.
    Additional Details:
    Additional Details:
    Avs save 3.3M in can space and get 2 players with good term and money and habs get a top 4 RD and an asset for trade deadline
    COL
    1. Evans, Jake
    2. Edmundson, Joel
    Additional Details:
    Enans is poor man's lehkonen of sort, good term and cap hit very survivable and gives a 100% effort every night
    3.
    MTL
    1. 2023 2nd round pick (CGY)
    2. 2025 4th round pick (CGY)
    CGY
    1. Dadonov, Evgeni ($2,250,000 retained)
    Buyouts
    • Karl Alzner: $833,333
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Evgeni Dadonov: $2,250,000 (45%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2023
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the FLA
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the VGK
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    2024
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the COL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the EDM
    2025
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
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    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
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    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$82,500,000$81,301,666$1,132,500$4,857,500$1,198,334
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the MTL
    Slafkovsky, Juraj
    $950,000
    LW
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Suzuki, Nick
    $7,875,000
    C
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the MTL
    Caufield, Cole
    $880,833
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Drouin, Jonathan
    $5,500,000
    LW, RW, C
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Dach, Kirby
    $2,750,000
    C, RW
    RFA - 4
    Logo of the MTL
    Anderson, Josh
    $5,500,000
    RW, LW
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the MTL
    Pitlick, Rem
    $1,100,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Dvorak, Christian
    $4,450,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Gallagher, Brendan
    $6,500,000
    RW
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the MTL
    Pezzetta, Michael
    $750,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the COL
    Compher, J.T.
    $3,500,000
    RW, LW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Armia, Joel
    $3,400,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël
    $825,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the MTL
    Matheson, Michael
    $4,875,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the COL
    Girard, Samuel
    $5,000,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the MTL
    Price, Carey
    $10,500,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the MTL
    Harris, Jordan
    $842,500
    LD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Savard, David
    $3,500,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the MTL
    Allen, Jake
    $2,875,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the MTL
    Schueneman, Corey
    $750,000
    LD/RD
    UFA - 1
    Strålman, Anton
    $3,000,000
    RD
    UFA
    Logo of the MTL
    Montembeault, Samuel
    $1,000,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the MTL
    Wideman, Chris
    $762,500
    RD
    UFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the MTL
    Byron, Paul
    $3,400,000
    LW, RW, C
    UFA - 1

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    Jul. 19 at 5:22 a.m.
    #51
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    Quoting: Isles5513
    Agreed. Mike Hoffman and his crazy wife/girlfriend are staying in Montreal lmao.


    I actually was pleasantly surprised by his play last year. Like I get that it's not a great contract... But I was told by many fans that he gives up on plays and doesn't back check, but that's not what I saw last season under MSL.

    Not an albatross by any means, but you have to pay to get rid of him in an economy where teams are literally giving away Burns and Pacioretty for free
    Jul. 19 at 7:18 a.m.
    #52
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    I feel like I lost brain cells reading this thread.

    Avs would decline this fairly quickly IMO. Both Colorado players are better than both of the proposed Montreal players by a fairly significant margin. If the Avs are looking to move on from Girard/Compher to save cap, they’d probably be looking at cheaper options than Edmundson and Evans.
    Jul. 19 at 7:24 a.m.
    #53
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    Quoting: BigBadBurke
    You make it sound like trades are always fair... what world are you from? I would love to live there


    Romanov for the 13th OA according to Isles fans is now fair and Romanov suddenly became this unbelievable player over the course of the offseason while traveling the Mediterranean sea with his wife.

    3 goals and 10 assists in 79 games last year is worth a 1st yet I heard over and over from Isles fans that they need offence for the 13th OA leading up to the draft.

    New York fan bases are weird.
    SMH and BigBadBurke liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 7:31 a.m.
    #54
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    Quoting: turtlemountain
    If the Avs are looking to move on from Girard/Compher to save cap, they’d probably be looking at cheaper options than Edmundson and Evans.


    Who is cheaper than a top4 D at 3.5M for 2 years and available?

    Who is cheaper than a 3rd line center at 1.7M AAV for 3 years and available?

    Might not be fair in your opinion but Edmundson and Evans are valuable members of the team, young, cheap and effective. I see Oilers fans trading for Evans on every ACGM because he's so valuable on a cap team.
    SMH and BigBadBurke liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 7:37 a.m.
    #55
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    Who is cheaper than a top4 D at 3.5M for 2 years and available?

    Who is cheaper than a 3rd line center at 1.7M AAV for 3 years and available?

    Might not be fair in your opinion but Edmundson and Evans are valuable members of the team, young, cheap and effective. I see Oilers fans trading for Evans on every ACGM because he's so valuable on a cap team.


    Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy on just about every team. Evans is a replacement level 4th liner (although he’s young so he may be able to put it together).

    I’m not saying that there’s not value for Edmundson/Evans in the league. But that value is less than Girard and Compher.
    Jul. 19 at 7:42 a.m.
    #56
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    Quoting: jonh514

    Not an albatross by any means, but you have to pay to get rid of him in an economy where teams are literally giving away Burns and Pacioretty for free


    You cant treat every trade in a vacuum.

    Toews got 2 2nds. Romanov got a 1st.

    Toews is 10 times the defenceman of Romanov. Context matters

    Vegas gave away Fleury as well just to fit in the cap. Hawks then got assets for the same player at the TDL. The offseason is always harder to move money compared to the TDL where retaining money is easier as the cap space accrues. Team context matters.

    Grier is a 1st time GM that just got humbled, badly. Bad trades happen.

    Sometimes you just dont have the leverage. Holland and Drury both 'overpaid' to dump Kassian and Nemeth but it was necessary not to lose better pieces.

    Context matters always.
    BigBadBurke liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 7:46 a.m.
    #57
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    Quoting: turtlemountain
    Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy on just about every team. Evans is a replacement level 4th liner (although he’s young so he may be able to put it together).

    I’m not saying that there’s not value for Edmundson/Evans in the league. But that value is less than Girard and Compher.


    I didnt say they were more valuable but calling Edmundson a bottom pair guy when he's been paired on the top 2 pairs the last few years isnt correct. He had an unbelievable season with Petry in 2021 finishing 5th in the NHL in plus/minus and playing in every situation.
    You are either not being truthful or you dont know the player well enough

    Evans at worst is played as your 4th line center that can move up in the lineup. AT 1.7M with cost certainty for 3 years. You make it sound like he's not an everyday nhl'r. He is very valuable. That cost certainty adds to his play on the ice and makes him attractive to a team capped out that needs to shed a top9 player to fit in other top6 players. We've seen it before.

    Is it a fair trade? Who knows. Fair trade is a fan made concept. Gms arent looking to deceive other GMs otherwise then they wouldnt do business together again. But it certainly gives Colorado flexibility in a tight market where they will have no choice but to shed a player like Girard next year to fit MacK.
    SMH liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 8:00 a.m.
    #58
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    I didnt say they were more valuable but calling Edmundson a bottom pair guy when he's been paired on the top 2 pairs the last few years isnt correct. He had an unbelievable season with Petry in 2021 finishing 5th in the NHL in plus/minus and playing in every situation.
    You are either not being truthful or you dont know the player well enough

    Evans at worst is played as your 4th line center that can move up in the lineup. AT 1.7M with cost certainty for 3 years. You make it sound like he's not an everyday nhl'r. He is very valuable. That cost certainty adds to his play on the ice and makes him attractive to a team capped out that needs to shed a top9 player to fit in other top6 players. We've seen it before.

    Is it a fair trade? Who knows. Fair trade is a fan made concept. Gms arent looking to deceive other GMs otherwise then they wouldnt do business together again. But it certainly gives Colorado flexibility in a tight market where they will have no choice but to shed a player like Girard next year to fit MacK.


    Edmundson would be a bottom pairing PK guy on every contending team (including Colorado). You can cite +/- from 2 years ago, but his on ice defensive impacts have been poor for most of his career. But yes he has played top 4 minutes before, absolutely true.

    $1.7M for a replacement level 4th liner isn’t exactly great. If you’re a team trying to make smart moves to save cap, paying a guy like $700K more that what a comparable player would get in the market is not a recipe for success. Committing to 4th liners for long term at above market rates doesn’t give a team flexibility.
    Jul. 19 at 8:03 a.m.
    #59
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    Quoting: turtlemountain
    Edmundson would be a bottom pairing PK guy on every contending team (including Colorado). You can cite +/- from 2 years ago, but his on ice defensive impacts have been poor for most of his career. But yes he has played top 4 minutes before, absolutely true.

    $1.7M for a replacement level 4th liner isn’t exactly great. If you’re a team trying to make smart moves to save cap, paying a guy like $700K more that what a comparable player would get in the market is not a recipe for success. Committing to 4th liners for long term at above market rates doesn’t give a team flexibility.


    So you're saying Edmundson would be a bottom pair guy on Colorado??! I agree. And isnt that an asset instead of Jack Johnson?

    Calling Evans overpaid is just dumb. They gave away Poehling a legit throwaway 4th line center at 750k. Evans if he was overpaid would have been the throwaway to the Pens in the Petry deal
    Jul. 19 at 8:15 a.m.
    #60
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    So you're saying Edmundson would be a bottom pair guy on Colorado??! I agree. And isnt that an asset instead of Jack Johnson?

    Calling Evans overpaid is just dumb. They gave away Poehling a legit throwaway 4th line center at 750k. Evans if he was overpaid would have been the throwaway to the Pens in the Petry deal


    Edmundson would be a bottom pair guy on most contending teams in the league, not just Colorado.

    Not sure how the Pittsburgh trade is relevant. But Poehling sucks lol.

    Example here though: Avs have Logan O’Connor as a 4th liner. Evans and LOC are different players, but overall they’re going to play similar roles on a team’s bottom 6. LOC is signed for $1.05M for the next 3 years. Similar age, same term as Evans. LOC is a valuable player today *because* he is so cheap. If he made $650K more, he would be a trade candidate.
    Jul. 19 at 8:21 a.m.
    #61
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    You cant treat every trade in a vacuum.

    Toews got 2 2nds. Romanov got a 1st.

    Toews is 10 times the defenceman of Romanov. Context matters

    Vegas gave away Fleury as well just to fit in the cap. Hawks then got assets for the same player at the TDL. The offseason is always harder to move money compared to the TDL where retaining money is easier as the cap space accrues. Team context matters.

    Grier is a 1st time GM that just got humbled, badly. Bad trades happen.

    Sometimes you just dont have the leverage. Holland and Drury both 'overpaid' to dump Kassian and Nemeth but it was necessary not to lose better pieces.

    Context matters always.


    So I think we are saying the same thing. The context is that Kessel, Statsny, Niederreiter, Rodrigues, Milano are 5 current unsigned UFAs who are all better than Hoffman and can be had cheaper and possibly for less term.

    So I fail to see how we can get a team to pay us for Hoffman.
    Koskinen_The_Great liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 8:24 a.m.
    #62
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    Quoting: jonh514
    So I think we are saying the same thing. The context is that Kessel, Statsny, Niederreiter, Rodrigues, Milano are 5 current unsigned UFAs who are all better than Hoffman and can be had cheaper and possibly for less term.

    So I fail to see how we can get a team to pay us for Hoffman.


    I dont see Hughes paying to dump players, regardless. That is what he has said over and over. He would have gotten more if he retained on Petry but it's clear he wont take on any salary next 2-3 years.

    Which is exactly everyone's argument here that Colorado would be paying for cap space as Hughes would only take it on if given premium assets which is the new reality of the flat cap world.
    Jul. 19 at 10:47 a.m.
    #63
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    Mr.
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    I didnt say they were more valuable but calling Edmundson a bottom pair guy when he's been paired on the top 2 pairs the last few years isnt correct. He had an unbelievable season with Petry in 2021 finishing 5th in the NHL in plus/minus and playing in every situation.
    You are either not being truthful or you dont know the player well enough

    Evans at worst is played as your 4th line center that can move up in the lineup. AT 1.7M with cost certainty for 3 years. You make it sound like he's not an everyday nhl'r. He is very valuable. That cost certainty adds to his play on the ice and makes him attractive to a team capped out that needs to shed a top9 player to fit in other top6 players. We've seen it before.

    Is it a fair trade? Who knows. Fair trade is a fan made concept. Gms arent looking to deceive other GMs otherwise then they wouldnt do business together again. But it certainly gives Colorado flexibility in a tight market where they will have no choice but to shed a player like Girard next year to fit MacK.


    Someone should explain to turtlemoutain that you don't look at players numbers to decide what pair they are, a bottem pair guy is Someone who can play 12-14 min a night and a top 4 D is Someone who gives you 20+minutes every night vs the top 6 players, and btw that's why romanov costed so much... because he shows at the end of season that he can play 20 plus minutes.
    There's no "cheaper alternative" in free agency who's 6'5 and gives you 20 plus minute's that's a fact
    BigBadBurke liked this.
    Jul. 19 at 6:49 p.m.
    #64
    PittsburghModelMyAss
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    Quoting: jonh514
    Thanks for the response sir.

    Rem Pitlick was a UFA... since he was not qualified. He was available on the market and signed for peanuts.

    Kessel, Statsny, Niederreiter, Rodrigues, Milano are 5 current unsigned UFAs who are all better than Hoffman and can be had cheaper.

    You are not wrong about the precedent trades, but this offseason is an example of unprecedented times. Cap space is more valuable than assets who are not stars.


    Kessel and stastny is up for debate, but yeah id take the other 3 instantly over hoff, especially if they come in at less than 4m/yr
    Jul. 19 at 6:53 p.m.
    #65
    PittsburghModelMyAss
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    Quoting: turtlemountain
    Edmundson is a bottom pairing guy on just about every team. Evans is a replacement level 4th liner (although he’s young so he may be able to put it together).

    I’m not saying that there’s not value for Edmundson/Evans in the league. But that value is less than Girard and Compher.


    I don't think anyone is disputing that. If Girard was making 3.5 and Compher was making 1.7, yes this trade looks a bit bad. But you aren't factoring in what the difference in cap means to a team like colorado who won't have much trade ammunition for a while
    Jul. 19 at 6:58 p.m.
    #66
    PittsburghModelMyAss
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    Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
    I dont see Hughes paying to dump players, regardless. That is what he has said over and over. He would have gotten more if he retained on Petry but it's clear he wont take on any salary next 2-3 years.

    Which is exactly everyone's argument here that Colorado would be paying for cap space as Hughes would only take it on if given premium assets which is the new reality of the flat cap world.


    He won't be paying in terms of taking on cap, but as per the Ghost trade, he will be paying a 2nd & 7th rounder minimum to dump hoffman to the yotes, or a team of that nature.
     
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