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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary

Jul. 24 at 12:43 a.m.
#526
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Adam Gaudette>Cole Caufield confirmed
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Jul. 24 at 12:54 a.m.
#527
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Quoting: Alfie11



Adam Gaudette>Cole Caufield confirmed


2 isles forwards 💪🏻
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Jul. 24 at 2:30 a.m.
#528
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Quoting: justaBoss
I don't think it is that terrible.

On a vacuum the amount they paid is massive, but the assets they gave up were peaked pending UFAs with terribly expensive contracts coming, or irrelevant assets for a contender.

If you ask me now do I take a 29 year old Huberdeau and 28 year old Weegar for one year over 24 year old Matthew Tkachuk at same cap total the answer is obviously yes. But if you ask me the same question in 3 years time, would I take a 32 year old Huberdeau and 31 year old Weegar with 6 years left in their contracts at total cap of close to $20M dollars, or a 27-year old Tkachuk at half the price, I'm 100% taking Tkachuk.

And this is assuming CGY actually is able to keep those guys, which is far from certain.


Whether Calgary can re-sign the players or not is irrelevant. I’m just talking from a Panthers perspective.

The Panthers gave up the better player in a trade, while adding a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a first round pick. And even if you argue that the Panthers are sacrificing now for a better future, that’s not exactly the type of move that a team that doesn’t have a 1st until 2026 should be doing. Just an absolutely atrocious move.
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Jul. 24 at 2:38 a.m.
#529
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Terrible for Florida? Really? It favours Calgary for sure, as they got arguably the better player AND major adds. But taking contracts/term into account, Florida comes out pretty good. Anytime you get a 100 power forward for 8 years in his prime with a reasonable AAV you are not a loser. It’s just that Calgary won more. And Florida is getting the safer package too: Calgary could end up with only Swchwind and a 2025 first in a years time. Personally I like it a lot for both teams.


I’m sick of “power forwards” and how much people value them. They’re not better than other players just because they’re big, and being physical isn’t very helpful at offense, and is far from the most effective way to defend. The Panthers, who need to be contenders in the short term, traded their franchise player in Huberdeau (or co-franchise player at least) for a downgrade, and they gave up a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a 1st. It’s inconceivable.
Jul. 24 at 3:39 a.m.
#530
Lundkvist Truther
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Whether Calgary can re-sign the players or not is irrelevant. I’m just talking from a Panthers perspective.

The Panthers gave up the better player in a trade, while adding a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a first round pick. And even if you argue that the Panthers are sacrificing now for a better future, that’s not exactly the type of move that a team that doesn’t have a 1st until 2026 should be doing. Just an absolutely atrocious move.


I agree that the price they paid is extremely high, but I'd also argue that in the long run this could be worth their troubles.
Jul. 24 at 3:40 a.m.
#531
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bruh
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Jul. 24 at 11:05 a.m.
#532
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Eklund-Bordeleau-Coe
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what a fun night this was; knight slayer


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Jul. 24 at 11:19 a.m.
#533
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I’m sick of “power forwards” and how much people value them. They’re not better than other players just because they’re big, and being physical isn’t very helpful at offense, and is far from the most effective way to defend. The Panthers, who need to be contenders in the short term, traded their franchise player in Huberdeau (or co-franchise player at least) for a downgrade, and they gave up a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a 1st. It’s inconceivable.


Players like Tkachuk are rare because he has the perfect mix of skill and grit. He’s better than most wingers in the game because he can do all the things a 4th line grinder does at an elite level while also being an elite goal scorer/passer etc..

Tkachuk is better than Huberdeau right now and in 2 years when Huberdeau is 31 and on a 10 mill AAV , I’m sure most rational fans would rather have the 26 YO Tkachuk at 9.5 AAV
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Jul. 24 at 11:47 a.m.
#534
No Patty Kane trades
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I’m sick of “power forwards” and how much people value them. They’re not better than other players just because they’re big, and being physical isn’t very helpful at offense, and is far from the most effective way to defend. The Panthers, who need to be contenders in the short term, traded their franchise player in Huberdeau (or co-franchise player at least) for a downgrade, and they gave up a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a 1st. It’s inconceivable.


No matter what you think of power forwards and their value (because we can agree that they don’t add enormous value like most people think, but they definitely add some value), Tkachuk is still the most valuable piece in this trade. Huberdeau is probably the best player, but he’s also like 5 years older than Tkachuk.

Now you bring up the need for Florida to be contenders on the short term: well, this trade makes them worse THIS year, but next year it gives them a player that they know will be on their team for the next 7 years, whereas Calgary might be left with only Swchwind and the 2025 first.

And is Weegar really a number 1 defenseman? He’s definitely a solid number 2, but calling him a number one seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess maybe he’s a low end number 1.

I’d say if the trade was Huberdeau and Weegar for Tkachuk it would be fair value, and the 2025 first scews it in Calgary’s favour. But maybe that’s just me.
Jul. 24 at 12:38 p.m.
#535
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Quoting: Saskleaf
No matter what you think of power forwards and their value (because we can agree that they don’t add enormous value like most people think, but they definitely add some value), Tkachuk is still the most valuable piece in this trade. Huberdeau is probably the best player, but he’s also like 5 years older than Tkachuk.

Now you bring up the need for Florida to be contenders on the short term: well, this trade makes them worse THIS year, but next year it gives them a player that they know will be on their team for the next 7 years, whereas Calgary might be left with only Swchwind and the 2025 first.

And is Weegar really a number 1 defenseman? He’s definitely a solid number 2, but calling him a number one seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess maybe he’s a low end number 1.

I’d say if the trade was Huberdeau and Weegar for Tkachuk it would be fair value, and the 2025 first scews it in Calgary’s favour. But maybe that’s just me.


I agree. Florida is a worse team right now, but I don’t think it will be that way much longer. They can get undervalued UFA’s to sign for cheap because Florida is a great place to live and give players an opportunity in a top 6 / top 4 role.
Jul. 24 at 12:56 p.m.
#536
Fire Jim Nill
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Quoting: Alfie11



Adam Gaudette>Cole Caufield confirmed


2/3 of Dallas' checking line from last year is on this list.
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Jul. 24 at 12:57 p.m.
#537
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I’m sick of “power forwards” and how much people value them. They’re not better than other players just because they’re big, and being physical isn’t very helpful at offense, and is far from the most effective way to defend. The Panthers, who need to be contenders in the short term, traded their franchise player in Huberdeau (or co-franchise player at least) for a downgrade, and they gave up a #1 defenseman, a prospect, and a 1st. It’s inconceivable.


I agree with you on power forwards being overvalued - effectiveness, however it comes, is pretty much all that matters.

However I still don't mind this deal for Florida at all. At face value, not considering age or contract term and the like, yeah, this is pretty bad. But those things are legitimate factors. Both Huberdeau and Weegar are nearing 30 with only 1 year left on their deals. Tkachuk is 24 and came with a reasonable deal that carries him through the rest of his prime years. As far as the forward core is concerned this is a huge win that keeps their window open longer. Weegar's a tough loss for sure, and now they've got work to do to restructure that D-core, but it's do-able, and thanks to their forward group being fairly young and locked in, they have some runway to get it right.
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Jul. 24 at 1:01 p.m.
#538
mmm... Bratt
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I agree with most of your comment, I think the MT trade is pretty much fair for both teams for the reasons you mentioned.

Quoting: Saskleaf
And is Weegar really a number 1 defenseman? He’s definitely a solid number 2, but calling him a number one seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess maybe he’s a low end number 1.


But I cannot stand for this Weegar slander.
Dude is a stud, I think he actually had a slightly better season than Ekblad.
Easily top 10 D in the league for me currently.
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Jul. 24 at 2:01 p.m.
#539
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Quoting: Tintin
I agree with most of your comment, I think the MT trade is pretty much fair for both teams for the reasons you mentioned.



But I cannot stand for this Weegar slander.
Dude is a stud, I think he actually had a slightly better season than Ekblad.
Easily top 10 D in the league for me currently.


Weegar is defensively a #1 D, but wouldn’t say he was better than Ekblad last season. He just exposed by certain teams (like Tampa) because of his skating .
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Jul. 24 at 2:04 p.m.
#540
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I agree with you on power forwards being overvalued - effectiveness, however it comes, is pretty much all that matters.

However I still don't mind this deal for Florida at all. At face value, not considering age or contract term and the like, yeah, this is pretty bad. But those things are legitimate factors. Both Huberdeau and Weegar are nearing 30 with only 1 year left on their deals. Tkachuk is 24 and came with a reasonable deal that carries him through the rest of his prime years. As far as the forward core is concerned this is a huge win that keeps their window open longer. Weegar's a tough loss for sure, and now they've got work to do to restructure that D-core, but it's do-able, and thanks to their forward group being fairly young and locked in, they have some runway to get it right.


The panthers currently have a Norris Caliber D (Ekblad) , a solid #2 defenseman (Forsling) and good two way 2nd pair D in Gudas. Montour is alright and Lucas Carlsson has potential. I’m not high on Kiersted.

I think Florida is going to trade for a young defenseman on an ELC or someone who’s fallen out of favor with their team.
Jul. 24 at 2:04 p.m.
#541
No Patty Kane trades
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Quoting: Tintin
I agree with most of your comment, I think the MT trade is pretty much fair for both teams for the reasons you mentioned.



But I cannot stand for this Weegar slander.
Dude is a stud, I think he actually had a slightly better season than Ekblad.
Easily top 10 D in the league for me currently.


He’s a fantastic defenseman and is easily a top pairing guy. But I don’t think he’s a true number one, and he definitely isn’t top 10. He might have had a better season then Ekblad, but I would still easily take Ekblad.
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Jul. 24 at 2:15 p.m.
#542
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Edited Jul. 24 at 2:28 p.m.
Quoting: Db1899
The panthers currently have a Norris Caliber D (Ekblad) , a solid #2 defenseman (Forsling) and good two way 2nd pair D in Gudas. Montour is alright and Lucas Carlsson has potential. I’m not high on Kiersted.

I think Florida is going to trade for a young defenseman on an ELC or someone who’s fallen out of favor with their team.


I wonder if they've checked in on de Haan. Will probably come cheap, and replaces a lot of what Weegar brought (to a lesser extent, of course). He's got the versatility, defensively responsible, bit of physicality. I like that fit.

Edit: I like Forsling, but I view him as a guy you want driving your 2nd pair. If they bring in De Haan, I could see he and Ekblad and Forsling - Gudas potentially working as a top 4.
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Jul. 24 at 2:28 p.m.
#543
TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: Alfie11



Adam Gaudette>Cole Caufield confirmed


Seeing Eakin above just about anyone automatically makes whatever that stat is useless
Jul. 24 at 2:29 p.m.
#544
TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: Saskleaf
He’s a fantastic defenseman and is easily a top pairing guy. But I don’t think he’s a true number one, and he definitely isn’t top 10. He might have had a better season then Ekblad, but I would still easily take Ekblad.


People actually think Weegar is better than Ekblad? Do these same people think Devon Toews is better than Makar?
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Jul. 24 at 2:31 p.m.
#545
No Patty Kane trades
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Quoting: DougieGilmour
People actually think Weegar is better than Ekblad? Do these same people think Devon Toews is better than Makar?


Lol sounds about right.
Jul. 24 at 2:35 p.m.
#546
KFTW
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Who’s excited for :
Dubois-Bedard-Huberdeau
Slafkovksy-Suzuki-Caufield
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Jul. 24 at 2:43 p.m.
#547
TheLeafsAbuseMe
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Lol sounds about right.


My top 10 right now doesn’t involve Weegar or Towes:

1 Makar

2 Josi

3 Hedman

4 Fox

5 McAvoy

6 Hamilton

7 Theodore

8 Ekblad

9 Letang

10 Carlson

Just outside: Heiskanen, Pietrangelo, Reilly, Nurse, Weegar, Toews, Chychrun, Slavin, Hughes, and Spurgeon
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Jul. 24 at 2:46 p.m.
#548
Chad of Chads
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Quoting: csick
Who’s excited for :
Dubois-Bedard-Huberdeau
Slafkovksy-Suzuki-Caufield


Montreal got to much competition now for Bedard did you see Chicago's team its a bunch of 4th liners and 2 Hall of Famers oh and Seth Jones tears of joy never forget SJ
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Jul. 24 at 2:47 p.m.
#549
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I wonder if they've checked in on de Haan. Will probably come cheap, and replaces a lot of what Weegar brought (to a lesser extent, of course). He's got the versatility, defensively responsible, bit of physicality. I like that fit.

Edit: I like Forsling, but I view him as a guy you want driving your 2nd pair. If they bring in De Haan, I could see he and Ekblad and Forsling - Gudas potentially working as a top 4.


De haan could make sense, I think they should inquire about these D as well: Brannstrom, Hague, Soucy, John Merrill, Kulikov
Jul. 24 at 2:50 p.m.
#550
Chad of Chads
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I wonder if they've checked in on de Haan. Will probably come cheap, and replaces a lot of what Weegar brought (to a lesser extent, of course). He's got the versatility, defensively responsible, bit of physicality. I like that fit.

Edit: I like Forsling, but I view him as a guy you want driving your 2nd pair. If they bring in De Haan, I could see he and Ekblad and Forsling - Gudas potentially working as a top 4.


Last time I checked De-Haan was linked to the NYI but its been so quiet over there idk what they are doing rn. Lou probs has a bunch of deals done and will release em all at once like he always does

Also has anyone seen that Johan Larsson deal yet. Wasnt it reported at the start of the offseason Pitt signed him well um where's the deal lul

I feel hes gonna be one of those guys who signs last minute with a team. But man Kadri really stalled the market didnt he. If he was signed most of these depth guys would be on teams already
 
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