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Quality Not Quantity Take 2

Created by: jonh514
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 25, 2022
Published: Jul. 25, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
MTL
  1. Power, Owen
Additional Details:
Habs get a future #1 defensemen
BUF
  1. Barron, Justin
  2. Guhle, Kaiden
  3. Tuch, Luke [Reserve List]
  4. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
  5. 2024 2nd round pick (COL)
Additional Details:
Sabres get a couple of guaranteed top 4 defensemen (not sure what their upside is yet) plus an unprotected 1st and a 2nd
Sabres already have Dahlin as #1 and Dahlin & Power both playing on the left means they will be competing with each other for ice time
Threw in Tuch to give the Sabres the opportunity for a brother act
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
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2024
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2025
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$77,118,333$1,132,500$5,782,500$5,381,667
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,875,000$7,875,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,700,000$1,700,000
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
RW, LW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,875,000$4,875,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$507,500$508K)
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$762,500$762,500
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Buffalo Sabres
$916,667$916,667 (Performance Bonus$925,000$925K)
LD/RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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Jul. 25, 2022 at 6:14 a.m.
#1
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Sabres already have enough top 4 dmen and dahlin is going back to playing the right side like he did before the NHL. Sabres easily decline.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 6:18 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: wojme
Sabres already have enough top 4 dmen and dahlin is going back to playing the right side like he did before the NHL. Sabres easily decline.


Interesting. I did not realize he was changing sides. Thanks for the response!
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 6:50 a.m.
#3
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Embarrassing
Jul. 25, 2022 at 7:40 a.m.
#4
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Buffalo counters with Andres bjork for caufield and your 2023 1st
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 7:40 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: wojme
Sabres already have enough top 4 dmen and dahlin is going back to playing the right side like he did before the NHL. Sabres easily decline.


You were way too polite
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 8:25 a.m.
#6
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Although I don't think the Sabres will ever consider trading Power when he is on a ELC, they definitely would have interest in trading for Barron.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 8:30 a.m.
#7
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Neither team does this
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 8:39 a.m.
#8
Shibbal18
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Yeah because Buffalo is really lacking in D prospects....
Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:02 a.m.
#9
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Even if Dahlin and Power never end up on the same pairing, the Sabres would prefer to have 2 first pair caliber pairings. When the Sabres get to the playoffs, they’ll be able to have one of Dahlin and Power on the ice at almost all times, making them really hard to play against.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:25 a.m.
#10
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Idk that looks like an aggressive good offer. Buffalo would have to strongly consider it.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:29 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: Timmah007
Idk that looks like an aggressive good offer. Buffalo would have to strongly consider it.


You are an Oilers fan. Stick to watching them! Buffalo easily says no. No Chance
Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:35 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: PHEN
You are an Oilers fan. Stick to watching them! Buffalo easily says no. No Chance


I'm an outsider that doesn't have bias glasses on....
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:40 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Timmah007
I'm an outsider that doesn't have bias glasses on....


Your bias glasses may be a little too thick. Adams likes where his team is at and going. Making strides the right way. Not trading a 1st overall pick for prospects and picks. And nothing is Guaranteed with stuff Sabres are getting from Montreal.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:45 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: PHEN
Your bias glasses may be a little too thick. Adams likes where his team is at and going. Making strides the right way. Not trading a 1st overall pick for prospects and picks. And nothing is Guaranteed with stuff Sabres are getting from Montreal.


Power is also not a sure thing either. Yak was taken first overall didn't guarantee success. Gulhe is a really good young prospect too getting fairly compensated for the difference in potential between them.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 10:04 a.m.
#15
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No. You Gave a bunch of garbage quantity for power. Boy even the thought of yes.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 1:49 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Timmah007
Idk that looks like an aggressive good offer. Buffalo would have to strongly consider it.


I thought so. Apparently not though. No hard feelings, just trying to stimulate conversation outside the same 3 trades I see all the time.

One guy said Guhle & Barron & Florida's unprotected 1st in the deepest draft in 20 years are Garbage. I feel bad for that guy.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 1:56 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: sabresparaavida
Even if Dahlin and Power never end up on the same pairing, the Sabres would prefer to have 2 first pair caliber pairings. When the Sabres get to the playoffs, they’ll be able to have one of Dahlin and Power on the ice at almost all times, making them really hard to play against.


I totally agree with your assessment... It's just that... Typically to win a cup you need an Elite Center, an Elite Defenseman, an Elite Winger, and an Elite Goalie to win a cup. Since you have 2 Elite Defensemen, but (forgive me no offence meant) not many other Elite role players, it's going to be hard to win a cup. Eventually you would probably want to trade one of your Elite defenders for an Elite at another position (which negates my trade, I get that).

Anyway thanks for your response.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 2:05 p.m.
#18
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Pure fantasy w/o any reason behind it from either side.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 2:08 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: jonh514
I thought so. Apparently not though. No hard feelings, just trying to stimulate conversation outside the same 3 trades I see all the time.

One guy said Guhle & Barron & Florida's unprotected 1st in the deepest draft in 20 years are Garbage. I feel bad for that guy.


Ya I like seeing someone think outside the box not posting the exact same deals as everyone else. I think its a sound aggressive offer.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 2:09 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: jonh514
I totally agree with your assessment... It's just that... Typically to win a cup you need an Elite Center, an Elite Defenseman, an Elite Winger, and an Elite Goalie to win a cup. Since you have 2 Elite Defensemen, but (forgive me no offence meant) not many other Elite role players, it's going to be hard to win a cup. Eventually you would probably want to trade one of your Elite defenders for an Elite at another position (which negates my trade, I get that).

Anyway thanks for your response.


I think I would change your “requirements to win a cup” to playing at an elite level, rather than an elite player. Take the Blues the year they won the cup for example: Binnington is not an elite goalie, but he played elite that year. ROR is not an elite 1C (average 1C at best), but that playoffs, he played at an elite level. The majority of the Sabres players that will be a factor in any possible cup runs in the next 5-10 years are not fully developed yet. Quinn, JJP, Cozens, Thompson, Savoie, Power and a few others could become elite, or they could play at an elite level long enough to win a cup, or they could sputter out and be depth players. No one knows yet.
I think the Sabres are building a team that will be somewhere between that blues team and the Preds team that made the finals a few years ago. Elite defense, but also can run 4 strong lines, even if their first line is only average. I also think Devon Levi will become an elite goaltender, but we’re a couple years out on that.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 7:44 p.m.
#21
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Edited Jul. 25, 2022 at 7:52 p.m.
@BuFfaLOFaN
Quoting: jonh514
...One guy said Guhle & Barron & Florida's unprotected 1st in the deepest draft in 20 years are Garbage. OrganizedConfusion55 was a bit hyperbolic, he normally gives very sound comments I feel bad for that guy.
Quoting: Timmah007
... I think its a sound aggressive offer.
I guess all Sabre fans forget that Power has played exactly one more NHL game than Baron.
Owen is as much of a prospect as either Guhle or Justin.
I guess none of the Sabre fans watched any of the playoffs as all four of the finalist played with 3 RHD and 3 LHD, but Buffalo after missing the play offs the last 11 years think they are smarter then the cup final four teams and are certain Dahlin will line up on the right side.
Apparently the Sabre fans do not understand, two LHD on the ice together are vulnerable to aggressive fore checking when the puck is dumped in to the right of the GK.

With Levi and Guhle both at least two years away, I would need to strongly consider this trade.
Dahlin Barron
Guhle Lyubushkin
Samuelsson Jokiharju
Has the makings of a really good defensive core that could be around for the next 8 years.

On the other hand, Power looked very comfortable in his 8 NHL games.
While I never thought he would or could be better than Dahlin, he may have proven me wrong.
I think Karmanos would lose a lot of sleep mulling over this offer, but in the end, he would keep the devil he knows instead of the devils he does not.
Then lose more sleep wishing he made the trade.

@sabresparaavida
Tarasenko (winger) and Pietrangelo (defenseman) are elite.
You are correct that Binnington played way over his head the second half of the season and playoffs.
The Blues had unbelievable depth with 13 players netting at least 10 goals while 19 yo Robert Thomas had 9 (yup the same Thomas who centered for Tarasenko and Buchnevich this past year) and Zach Sanford had 8.
So one may say they proved there is quality in quantity.
The Sabres could easily have the same depth next year and maybe have 14 players with 10 or more goals.
The nine they had this year plus, Asplund, Krebs, Mittelstadt, Power and Quinn

Well that is my lengthy tome, I have not written one in about a month.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 8:19 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: gretzkyghosts
BuFfaLOFaN
I guess all Sabre fans forget that Power has played exactly one more NHL game than Baron.
Owen is as much of a prospect as either Guhle or Justin.
I guess none of the Sabre fans watched any of the playoffs as all four of the finalist played with 3 RHD and 3 LHD, but Buffalo after missing the play offs the last 11 years think they are smarter then the cup final four teams and are certain Dahlin will line up on the right side.
Apparently the Sabre fans do not understand, two LHD on the ice together are vulnerable to aggressive fore checking when the puck is dumped in to the right of the GK.

With Levi and Guhle both at least two years away, I would need to strongly consider this trade.
Dahlin Barron
Guhle Lyubushkin
Samuelsson Jokiharju
Has the makings of a really good defensive core that could be around for the next 8 years.

On the other hand, Power looked very comfortable in his 8 NHL games.
While I never thought he would or could be better than Dahlin, he may have proven me wrong.
I think Karmanos would lose a lot of sleep mulling over this offer, but in the end, he would keep the devil he knows instead of the devils he does not.
Then lose more sleep wishing he made the trade.

sabresparaavida
Tarasenko (winger) and Pietrangelo (defenseman) are elite.
You are correct that Binnington played way over his head the second half of the season and playoffs.
The Blues had unbelievable depth with 13 players netting at least 10 goals while 19 yo Robert Thomas had 9 (yup the same Thomas who centered for Tarasenko and Buchnevich this past year) and Zach Sanford had 8.
So one may say they proved there is quality in quantity.
The Sabres could easily have the same depth next year and maybe have 14 players with 10 or more goals.
The nine they had this year plus, Asplund, Krebs, Mittelstadt, Power and Quinn

Well that is my lengthy tome, I have not written one in about a month.


I don't disagree with you at all, I would say this in agreement with you. I do think the sabres should think about a RD, but let's also remember, the most dominant team in the last 3 years, Tampa, had 3 LD that are better than there best RD and Sergachev played 30% of his even strength ice time with another LD. Power was great and I think him and Dahlin should be playing 20-25 each next year and another LD plays 10-20. But to your point IF Dahlin is not comfortable in the right side we should definitely consider trading a LD, my odd man out would be Samuelsson although I love the kid, think we could definitely get a very solid RD.

I think that next year if we find Dahlin is uncomfortable at RD but still dominates and Samuelsson continues his upward trend then there is a market for trading Power, which would be CRAZY to think about. Personally I think that the sabres could get even more than that package above if we where to wait a year and Power has a Calder level rookie year. Maybe Target someone like Brandt Clarke, or Nemec +.

Thanks for your lengthy tome! They are always very informative, Do you think the sabres improve next year to 95-105 points? Like the pace they where on at the end of the year last.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:03 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
... the most dominant team in the last 3 years, Tampa, had 3 LD that are better than there best RD .... Power was great and I think him and Dahlin should be playing 20-25 each next year ...wait a year and Power has a Calder level rookie year... 95...
100% agreement on all that is in bold.
As I said, I could see them having 14 players with 10 or more goals.
That sounds crazy but is certainly an achievable goal.
Over the final 28 games Buffalo played at a seasonal pace of 95 pts.
How to predict? Skinners first year I was at a party and every one thought the Sabres were a playoff team.
I thought they would certainly pass 80 points with an excellent chance of reaching 90.
They got 76 and everyone only remembers I thought they could reach 90, forgetting that I said they were not good enough to be in the playoffs.
I tell this story only to emphasize how hard it is to predict.

I think it is safe to say they are better than the Canadians and Flyers.
With all of the injuries Boston will have at the start of season, they may be in last play in the NHL at the start of the New Year especially if Bergeron decides to retire.
Islanders could regress as they have one of the oldest teams in the NHL.
So who will they pass?
None of Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Carolina, Pittsburgh, New York Rangers, Washington all are too good.
That leaves only one spot available.
Ottawa was only two points behind Buffalo and added Talbot, and DeBrincat.
New Jersey was far behind Buffalo but added Vanecek and Palat
Columbus finished 6 pts ahead of the Sabres last year added Gaudreau and Gudbranson.

This past year the best two teams who missed the playoffs were Islanders and Jackets with 84 and 81 pts respectively.
IMO Buffalo will finish 11th or 12th with close to 95 pts in a very competitive East Conference ahead of the Flyers, Canadians, Devils, Islanders and maybe the Wings.
Comrie will be a huge upgrade (a really great signing along with Lyubushkin, Pilut, and Hinostroza), GK will keep them out of the playoffs but good enough to be in contention until the end of March.

I guess I just cannot give short answers.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 9:25 p.m.
#24
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Quoting: gretzkyghosts
100% agreement on all that is in bold.
As I said, I could see them having 14 players with 10 or more goals.
That sounds crazy but is certainly an achievable goal.
Over the final 28 games Buffalo played at a seasonal pace of 95 pts.
How to predict? Skinners first year I was at a party and every one thought the Sabres were a playoff team.
I thought they would certainly pass 80 points with an excellent chance of reaching 90.
They got 76 and everyone only remembers I thought they could reach 90, forgetting that I said they were not good enough to be in the playoffs.
I tell this story only to emphasize how hard it is to predict.

I think it is safe to say they are better than the Canadians and Flyers.
With all of the injuries Boston will have at the start of season, they may be in last play in the NHL at the start of the New Year especially if Bergeron decides to retire.
Islanders could regress as they have one of the oldest teams in the NHL.
So who will they pass?
None of Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Carolina, Pittsburgh, New York Rangers, Washington all are too good.
That leaves only one spot available.
Ottawa was only two points behind Buffalo and added Talbot, and DeBrincat.
New Jersey was far behind Buffalo but added Vanecek and Palat
Columbus finished 6 pts ahead of the Sabres last year added Gaudreau and Gudbranson.

This past year the best two teams who missed the playoffs were Islanders and Jackets with 84 and 81 pts respectively.
IMO Buffalo will finish 11th or 12th with close to 95 pts in a very competitive East Conference ahead of the Flyers, Canadians, Devils, Islanders and maybe the Wings.
Comrie will be a huge upgrade (a really great signing along with Lyubushkin, Pilut, and Hinostroza), GK will keep them out of the playoffs but good enough to be in contention until the end of March.

I guess I just cannot give short answers.


I didn't actually disagree with you that's why I said it, I was bringing up some valid counter arguments that I had been running over in my brain. I do agree with the 14 players with 10 goals, because Dahlin and Power could easily both hit it. Although like you said it's very hard to guess anything, I'd say baring injuries Mitts, Olofsson, Cozens, Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, and Dahlin should be locks. Peterka, Krebs, Power, and Quinn should be locks to get 14 as well. Leaving Asplund and Girgensons...Asplund should be able to get it, Girgensons as well but they do normally get a lot of defensive starts.


For some reason I was getting 103 points over the last 28 games, and they had .894 goaltending over that stretch. Improve Anderson to NHL average, and then if Comrie can keep doing what he did last year we would be significantly better in goal. As well as we got ride of Fitzgerald, Eakin, Hayden, hopefully Bjork.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 10:08 p.m.
#25
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
I didn't actually disagree with you that's why I said it, I was bringing up some valid counter arguments that I had been running over in my brain. I do agree with the 14 players with 10 goals, because Dahlin and Power could easily both hit it. Although like you said it's very hard to guess anything, I'd say baring injuries Mitts, Olofsson, Cozens, Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, and Dahlin should be locks. Peterka, Krebs, Power, and Quinn should be locks to get 14 as well. Leaving Asplund and Girgensons...Asplund should be able to get it, Girgensons as well but they do normally get a lot of defensive starts.


For some reason I was getting 103 points over the last 28 games, and they had .894 goaltending over that stretch. Improve Anderson to NHL average, and then if Comrie can keep doing what he did last year we would be significantly better in goal. As well as we got ride of Fitzgerald, Eakin, Hayden, hopefully Bjork.
I did not think you disagreed at all, I only bolded the points that were the strongest.
I must apologize if I gave you the impression that I thought you disagreed.
You are correct 103 pts. my bad.
Yes the GK was terrible.
That is a very good record over that stretch.
I guess it is more wishful thinking than fact based, but I would not be surprised if Vegas missed the playoffs.
Losing Pacioretty, Dadonov and RHD Coghlan with only an aging Weber to replace them when thet missed the playoffs the previous season, may be enough of evidence.
Fitzgerald is still a Sabre it will be either he or Bryson as the 6th defenseman.
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