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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #10 - Kadri oh Kadri, wherefore art thou Kadri?

Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:33 p.m.
#626
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Kadri?


I would include him but at this point we could see an Islanders deal announced any second now with him. Seems like it should be announced soon, but Lou likes to keep things unpredictable.
Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:48 p.m.
#627
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:49 p.m.
#628
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Quoting: Devil




Ok
Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:50 p.m.
#629
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Ok


Ok
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:51 p.m.
#630
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Don't get why Carolina is in the negatives
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:52 p.m.
#631
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Quoting: Devil




bit too much but its a one year deal so i dont think you can complain that much
but now where does money for mcleod come from? devils are right up against the cap with 21 players (12F 7D 2G) or 22 if bernier comes back
Aug. 4, 2022 at 9:57 p.m.
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Quoting: Zuki9797
bit too much but its a one year deal so i dont think you can complain that much
but now where does money for mcleod come from? devils are right up against the cap with 21 players (12F 7D 2G) or 22 if bernier comes back


Tatar buyout during their 48 hour window?
Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:02 p.m.
#633
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Quoting: Zuki9797
bit too much but its a one year deal so i dont think you can complain that much
but now where does money for mcleod come from? devils are right up against the cap with 21 players (12F 7D 2G) or 22 if bernier comes back


Devils Mikey McLeod is already signed (but his contract might get terminated)
Oilers Ryan McLeod isn't signed
Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:04 p.m.
#634
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Quoting: Devil




Don't get why Carolina is in the negatives


Also, the fact that detroit had the best offseason makes not much sense to me lol. Also if this is at all accurate the Sens have supposedly gained ~24 points on the Leafstears of joy

Carolina is negative because they lost TonyD, Nino, Trocheck, Ian Cole, and Max Domi... The other thing is the model doesn't factor in players getting better or worse. Light Tony Deangelo is not going to have that good of a season and Kotkaniemi and some of the young Canes forwards get promoted and probably will do better higher in the lineup.
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:08 p.m.
#635
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Quoting: Devil




Don't get why Carolina is in the negatives


Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Also, the fact that detroit had the best offseason makes not much sense to me lol. Also if this is at all accurate the Sens have supposedly gained ~24 points on the Leafstears of joy

Carolina is negative because they lost TonyD, Nino, Trocheck, Ian Cole, and Max Domi... The other thing is the model doesn't factor in players getting better or worse. Light Tony Deangelo is not going to have that good of a season and Kotkaniemi and some of the young Canes forwards get promoted and probably will do better higher in the lineup.


Agreed. I wrote this earlier:

Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Dom Luszczyszyn (I copied and pasted that, I'm not even going to attempt typing it) ranked how much every team improved (or didn't) over the offseason for The Athletic, and put the Wings first, followed by SEA at #2, WAS at #3, NJD at #4, and OTT at #5. There is no possible way you can get me to believe that those first 4 teams improved more than the Senators did.

Additionally, how did WAS improve that much? Signing Kuemper (which was essentially their only notable move) is an improvement over Samsonov/Vanecek, but is it more of an improvement than, say, Campbell over Smith/Koskinen? Even if yes, it really makes the Caps the 3rd-most improved team over the offseason?

I don't think Luszczyszyn (copied and pasted again) is an idiot, but I find his rankings (thinking of yesterday's about contract efficiency as well) to be a little strange.
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:13 p.m.
#636
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Quoting: Devil
Devils Mikey McLeod is already signed (but his contract might get terminated)
Oilers Ryan McLeod isn't signed


Oh hmm wonder what i thought i saw then lol
Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:14 p.m.
#637
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Quoting: Zuki9797
Oh hmm wonder what i thought i saw then lol


Might have just gotten confused with the brothers
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:15 p.m.
#638
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Edited Aug. 4, 2022 at 11:54 p.m.
Quoting: Zuki9797
bit too much but its a one year deal so i dont think you can complain that much
but now where does money for mcleod come from? devils are right up against the cap with 21 players (12F 7D 2G) or 22 if bernier comes back


As I said before should have not qualified him and then signed him 2-2.5 mill x 1 year

3.2mill for what he does is a tad to much and the fact he didnt play much last year and is still healing from an injury is concerning.

Either way lets see what he does as if he can put up 20 goals and 20 assists its fine but if he doesnt not a great deal
Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:25 p.m.
#639
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Quoting: Devil




Don't get why Carolina is in the negatives


Yeah it doesn't add up.

-We brought in Burns to play the top pair with Slavin and run the powerplay, basically taking over DeAngelo's responsibilities but with a better player for our system.
-We acquired Max Pacioretty who can play on either of the top 2 LW.
-Hurricanes also acquired Kase who will fit great on the 3rd line wing.
-Acquired Dylan Coghlan who can probably play the bottom pair with Bear if we ditch Gardiner.
-Acquired Lane Pederson who will be a solid young extra forward.
-Signed Dzingel to light the lamp in the bottom 6.
-Also signed MacEachern, Stromwall, Lagesson, and Sawchenko to add depth to the system and fill out the Wolves lineup.

While losing
-Tony DeAngelo who I won't miss much and I think Burns can easily replace him.
-Vincent Trocheck who will be replaced by Kotkaniemi who's on track to keep growing and improve well on the 2nd line this season.
-Brendan Smith who we can let go to have more playing time somewhere else and he clears up spots for youngsters to come up.
-Ian Cole who will be replaced by Dylan Coghlan or Jake Gardiner and I definitely wouldn't have signed him for 3 million anyways.
-Max Domi who can be replaced by Jack Drury who is expected to have a breakout rookie season.
-Steven Lorentz who is replaced by Lane Pederson.
-Eetu Makiniemi who is replaced by Zach Sawchenko.
-Nino Niederreiter whose spot can be taken by the great Max Pacioretty.
-Plus losing notable minor league players (Lyon, Smallman, Jacobs, Leivo, Poturalski, Warm, LaFontaine, Smith) who could use a new team and that are replaced by up and coming prospects.

So really we only got better and fixed our team where it needed to be patched up. Plus most of those swaps we had were upgrades.

Burns in for DeAngelo (Upgrade in my opinion)
Patches in for Nino (Major Upgrade)
Pederson in for Lorentz (Meh)
Drury up for Domi (Upgrade to get Drury playing time)
Kotkaniemi takes Trocheck's spot at center (Small downgrade but could get better)
Coghlan in for Cole (Should be an upgrade as Coghlan grows)
Kase cleans up the empty spots on the wing from some lineup shifts and KK to center

That's why I don't often rely on win value numbers like that.
Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:33 p.m.
#640
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Quoting: Zinger
Yeah it doesn't add up.

-We brought in Burns to play the top pair with Slavin and run the powerplay, basically taking over DeAngelo's responsibilities but with a better player for our system.
-We acquired Max Pacioretty who can play on either of the top 2 LW.
-Hurricanes also acquired Kase who will fit great on the 3rd line wing.
-Acquired Dylan Coghlan who can probably play the bottom pair with Bear if we ditch Gardiner.
-Acquired Lane Pederson who will be a solid young extra forward.
-Signed Dzingel to light the lamp in the bottom 6.
-Also signed MacEachern, Stromwall, Lagesson, and Sawchenko to add depth to the system and fill out the Wolves lineup.

While losing
-Tony DeAngelo who I won't miss much and I think Burns can easily replace him.
-Vincent Trocheck who will be replaced by Kotkaniemi who's on track to keep growing and improve well on the 2nd line this season.
-Brendan Smith who we can let go to have more playing time somewhere else and he clears up spots for youngsters to come up.
-Ian Cole who will be replaced by Dylan Coghlan or Jake Gardiner and I definitely wouldn't have signed him for 3 million anyways.
-Max Domi who can be replaced by Jack Drury who is expected to have a breakout rookie season.
-Steven Lorentz who is replaced by Lane Pederson.
-Eetu Makiniemi who is replaced by Zach Sawchenko.
-Nino Niederreiter whose spot can be taken by the great Max Pacioretty.
-Plus losing notable minor league players (Lyon, Smallman, Jacobs, Leivo, Poturalski, Warm, LaFontaine, Smith) who could use a new team and that are replaced by up and coming prospects.

So really we only got better and fixed our team where it needed to be patched up. Plus most of those swaps we had were upgrades.

Burns in for DeAngelo (Upgrade in my opinion)
Patches in for Nino (Major Upgrade)
Pederson in for Lorentz (Meh)
Drury up for Domi (Upgrade to get Drury playing time)
Kotkaniemi takes Trocheck's spot at center (Small downgrade but could get better)
Coghlan in for Cole (Should be an upgrade as Coghlan grows)
Kase cleans up the empty spots on the wing from some lineup shifts and KK to center

That's why I don't often rely on win value numbers like that.


Good summary. Like you said, they upgraded from DeAngelo to Burns and from Niederreiter to Pacioretty, got Coghlan to replace Cole, got a solid middle-6 forward in Kase, and signed Dzingel for depth. The only real downgrade here is from Trocheck to KK. The adds far outweigh the losses here (I actually have the Canes winning the President's Trophy). Don't see how this article makes sense.
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:38 p.m.
#641
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Agreed. I wrote this earlier:


Quoting: Zinger
Yeah it doesn't add up.

-We brought in Burns to play the top pair with Slavin and run the powerplay, basically taking over DeAngelo's responsibilities but with a better player for our system.
-We acquired Max Pacioretty who can play on either of the top 2 LW.
-Hurricanes also acquired Kase who will fit great on the 3rd line wing.
-Acquired Dylan Coghlan who can probably play the bottom pair with Bear if we ditch Gardiner.
-Acquired Lane Pederson who will be a solid young extra forward.
-Signed Dzingel to light the lamp in the bottom 6.
-Also signed MacEachern, Stromwall, Lagesson, and Sawchenko to add depth to the system and fill out the Wolves lineup.

While losing
-Tony DeAngelo who I won't miss much and I think Burns can easily replace him.
-Vincent Trocheck who will be replaced by Kotkaniemi who's on track to keep growing and improve well on the 2nd line this season.
-Brendan Smith who we can let go to have more playing time somewhere else and he clears up spots for youngsters to come up.
-Ian Cole who will be replaced by Dylan Coghlan or Jake Gardiner and I definitely wouldn't have signed him for 3 million anyways.
-Max Domi who can be replaced by Jack Drury who is expected to have a breakout rookie season.
-Steven Lorentz who is replaced by Lane Pederson.
-Eetu Makiniemi who is replaced by Zach Sawchenko.
-Nino Niederreiter whose spot can be taken by the great Max Pacioretty.
-Plus losing notable minor league players (Lyon, Smallman, Jacobs, Leivo, Poturalski, Warm, LaFontaine, Smith) who could use a new team and that are replaced by up and coming prospects.

So really we only got better and fixed our team where it needed to be patched up. Plus most of those swaps we had were upgrades.

Burns in for DeAngelo (Upgrade in my opinion)
Patches in for Nino (Major Upgrade)
Pederson in for Lorentz (Meh)
Drury up for Domi (Upgrade to get Drury playing time)
Kotkaniemi takes Trocheck's spot at center (Small downgrade but could get better)
Coghlan in for Cole (Should be an upgrade as Coghlan grows)
Kase cleans up the empty spots on the wing from some lineup shifts and KK to center

That's why I don't often rely on win value numbers like that.


The thing about Dom's rankings is they are based completely on facts. Lol. But seriously, they are completely based off the numbers his system shoots out, he doesn't twist them in any way. So I guess it's kind of cool to see, but also its impossible to factor in things like player growth and rookies who have never played in the NHL. Like the Sabres add Power, Samuelsson, Quinn, Peterka, Tuch and Krebs for a full season replacing Hayden, Murray, Caggiula(-.5), Bjork🤞, Hagg (-)and Butcher(-.3). Replaced Tokarski (-1 win) with Comrie (+1.4 wins) and Pysyk (-.4) with Lyubushkin (idk)...and somehow that's only +1. because there is no value on the rookies.
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:42 p.m.
#642
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:44 p.m.
#643
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Quoting: SevenLeg




Carolina? what a shocking turn of events...
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:45 p.m.
#644
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Good summary. Like you said, they upgraded from DeAngelo to Burns and from Niederreiter to Pacioretty, got Coghlan to replace Cole, got a solid middle-6 forward in Kase, and signed Dzingel for depth. The only real downgrade here is from Trocheck to KK. The adds far outweigh the losses here (I actually have the Canes winning the President's Trophy). Don't see how this article makes sense.


Its not Trocheck to Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi was already on the team last year - while KK will probably be moved up the lineup to replace him, on a player-by-player comparison he doesnt offset Trocheck leaving at all. I think thats where youre missing a large downgrade
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:48 p.m.
#645
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Carolina? what a shocking turn of events...


tears of joy Exactly my thought when I first saw this

Seriously, someone tell Friedman that it's CGY

But if this is true, then the Flames just officially won the trade
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:49 p.m.
#646
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Quoting: SevenLeg




Must be a sign and trade with montreal
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:49 p.m.
#647
What in tarnation
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8 x 10,5 for Huberdeau

That's quite much since that contract kicks in when he's 30. He'll be worth that likely for half of the duration on that contract, if that.
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:49 p.m.
#648
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Quoting: SevenLeg




FZXVaGmUEAA1cMu?format=jpg&name=small
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:50 p.m.
#649
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Must be a sign and trade with montreal


Hearing Josh Anderson for Johnathan Huberdeau + Noah Hanifin
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Aug. 4, 2022 at 10:51 p.m.
#650
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue
Its not Trocheck to Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi was already on the team last year - while KK will probably be moved up the lineup to replace him, on a player-by-player comparison he doesnt offset Trocheck leaving at all. I think thats where youre missing a large downgrade


I thought it was clear that I meant that KK is replacing him as the 2nd line C, not that they brought in KK to replace Trocheck. It's an argument over semantics-if you want to tell me that since KK was on the team already, he's not "replacing" Trocheck-fine then, Drury will replace KK, who in turn will replace Trocheck.
 
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