Jagr should 100% be someone here

lidstrom>orr

longevity is a thing and lidstrom played in a way harder time, won a norris at 41, ketih isnt top 5

Ovi and Bossy were some wicked good centers in their prime

I think I just lost brain cells reading this… those are your top 5 what exactly? Forwards to ever play? I hope it’s your favourite players and not an argument on those players actually being the best ever to play

I couldn't figure out my 5th dman, had like 5 options, went with him.

A way harder time? What?

think its pretty clear its forwards, d and goalie

the players and game were much better in lidstroms time than in orrs

Sorry you couldn't figure out it wasn't position specific.

was my sarcasm that ambiguous?

Close but I'd rather have these 5, even if some didn't play as long. Understand having him in your top 5 though.

I’m going to tell you how wrong that is because I lived through it. The Original Six Era was the most challenging level of hockey ever played on earth. Every single team could put out a top line every single shift. Every team had two starting goalies. The depth of those 6 teams talent wise has not been matched ever since and it can’t be matched. If you think I’m a crazy old guy ask yourself this, what would it look like today if you had 6 NHL teams? What’s a 4th line look like?

Orr would've been better than Lidstrom in any era. Man won the Art Ross and nearly got to 1000 points in a shortened career.

I'm guessing it would have some combination of 3 forwards.

listen i say this all the time when people refer to the leafs not being able to win with more than 6 teams, those 6 teams were stacked i completely agree with you, (orr played with more than 6 but i still agree you im not nitpicking). but the quality of hockey is not the same, the goalies especially. what separates orr from everyone else is his point production and he doesnt have that without that goaltending.

he doesnt get those points against goalies today so no

I take it you never read Orr's book. Orr only played like 1 season during the Original 6 era before the 6 team expansion in 1967 took place. His production exploded in 1970 when 2 more teams were added to the league to make it 14 teams total, By the more or less end of his career (75/76) there were 18 teams in the league. The NHL became very diluted really fast and players like Orr feasted on it. In his book Orr talked about this and used the example of what if the league expanded from 30 to 90 teams during the 2010's, how good would Crosby have looked?

Well I’m glad you bring up goalies because today they are 6 foot 5 and covered in pads with a helmet and a sweater that could fit two people in it. Obviously it’s harder to score against that, which is why when I finish my all time team the only modern goalie you’ll see is Roy

He definitely does. Guys like Gretzky and Orr would shred your average .905 goaltender today.

the 3 best goalie of all time are 6'2 and under and are way better than anyone who played in orr's time, ken dryden was 6'4 and he won 5 vezina trophies in the 70s

its not even close to a debate

You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve always said Gretzky’s numbers are highly inflated because of the expansion. I agree that’s the same for any player who played from the 70s onward. What’s different then about an Orr or the Gretzky or a Mario? Why do I still consider them in my top 5 all time players? Because to be that special you had to change hockey in some way or dominant your era in such a way that it is inconceivable that someone could do what they did. Wayne Gretzky breaking 200 points was simply remarkable. I said it at the time and I also noted there’s a reason Gordie never put up those numbers. The amount of times I’ve had people call me border line nuts for saying Gretzky is 3rd on my all time list is beyond my ability to count. What made Orr different then? He was the improved version of Doug Harvey. He really did change hockey. That’s not some overstated fact. His skating was as great as you see from McDavid today. He was doing that on skates that weren’t anywhere near the quality these guys have today.

If Dryden played today in all that equipment with a sweater double the size of his you’d see Vasilevsky all over again. I hate the “if so and so played in that era” it’s beyond ridiculous.

you hate it yet thats how you just started your response, all you have to do is watch, goaltending was much worse

Some differences between now and then that were neglected in this^

More people play hockey now then did in the 60s/70s. Bigger pool of people playing=more talent.
Training regimens and healthier diets are way more advanced now then they were then. Some of the faster players then would have maybe average speed now. And even if your argument was true, this would make it so there’s more talent that each player is playing with which offsets who the increased competition.