They want a young roster player.

I mean, we can re-organize if you like.

Young Roster Player (Sandin), Prospect (Knies), First Round Pick, Take on Holl + 1.4 of Chychrun for a 50 point guy who can fetch you a pick at the deadline.

I think this is a very good haul for Chychrun.

Not saying it isn't a good haul, but you are asking for three years of salary retention. I'm only used to seeing salary retention for one year, or for a player who is performing well below their contract (Murray).

It would be highly unusual for a team to retain multiple years salary for a guy who is already on a team friendly deal.

As to Holl and Kerfoot, their value to Arizona is completely dependent on what they can be flipped for, and that's a big risk for Arizona to take them on with the hope of recouping them for picks at the deadline. Kerfoot is not going to have a 50 points season with the desert dogs, and they need to not get injured this season. To Arizona, Kerfoot and Holl are camp dump that could be a negative asset if they can't flip them.

It would be unusual, but that's why Arizona is getting more of a return.

I personally think the asking price on Chychrun is ridiculous. The team trading for that a star in those massive deals always never comes out on the winning end (Karlsson, Pacioretty, Eichel) ... and I think Leafs Management is smart enough to know that. Hockey is a variable game, and Chychrun has just as good a chance of coming to Toronto and being mediocre as he does becoming a top 2 star. We've seen it happen tons of times. I think a management group as smart as Toronto's realizes this, and if they're paying the full asking price, they're going to minimize risk by asking for some retention. It's not like AZ needs the cap space ...

Take out the retention and they might do it, long term retention on a good value contract isn't happening.

The long term retention when they already have one slot used up for 5 years with OEL isn't good for them. They have right now 3 players that could require retention at the trade deadline with only 2 retention slots left. Then adding two more in Holl and Kerfoot would really limit their opportunity to get max returns on those players. I think if they could get the deal done without retention its a good deal.

I don't particularly think any of those trade references are applicable here. Patches trade worked out for vegas in the beginning, it went bad because they so completely mismanaged their cap that they had to pay to offload him, he was also on the verge of 30 when Vegas acquired him. The Sabers absolutely ran Eichel into the ground value wise by playing chicken with his surgery, and we haven't really gotten to see how that deal worked out yet (too small a sample size, give it another season to see how Eichel bounces back from the surgery and time off the ice). Karlsson was also on the door to 30, and had a massive injury history when traded, he was already a shell of the player he had been across his early to mid 20s.

Chychrun on the other had is in his mid 20s, while he does have some injury history, it seems less extensive than those listed above, and he has multiple years left on a team friendly deal, as opposed to an expiring contract or a 10mil aav. I don't think what Arizona is asking for is unreasonable given the circumstances, and they don't need to move him if teams don't want to pay, they loose onthing by keeping him around (as opposed to patches and Karlsson who would be gone/need resign, or Eichel who said he would not play for the team anymore)

An incredibly over the top haul for Chychrun. This is a reigning Norris champion return. Not a top 4/2nd pair defenceman haul. He wouldn't even be the best defenceman on the Leafs. Not even sure I'd put him above Brodie quite yet. Certainly isn't as good defensively as Brodie but offers more offence but not even close to as much as Rielly does so why get him?

Leafs aren't trading Knies unless they get an ELC contract power forward in return. They also would have made a move already for their 2023 first rounder if something big was available and made sense. That year is supposed to be a stacked draft, so to move a first rounder would have to be a major difference maker to any team in the league.

That is a high of a price I would pay for Chychrun. He ain't all that. Just saying.

If ARI want's a trade they should lower the price. I know they are tanking but the price set on him is way off.

I honestly don't know why teams want him so much?
Is he good, yeah - hard to gage playing on a poor team. But I also feel trading for him can backfire big time.

I agree with most of this, for the record. If it were me, I'd be giving up Sandin, Kerfoot, Holl and a 1st - OR Knies, Sandin and Holl. There's plenty of risk associated with trading for anyone, with the exceptions of very big stars. Chychrun could come into town and be Tyson Barrie - just not a great fit. However, I'm basing this on what Arizona is asking for.

As for the "why get him" comment - I think you need more than just one defensive guy and one offensive guy to win a cup. I have no problem having 2 offensive guys on the back end - even if they're both the sameish player. You need a full roster to win. I just agree that we shouldn't sell the farm for him.