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Justin Holl

Created by: The_Rocket
Team: 2022-23 Vancouver Canucks
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 16, 2022
Published: Aug. 16, 2022
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:21 a.m.
#1
Owly
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The Leafs won't want Ferland and Woo is nothing
Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:21 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
The Leafs won't want Ferland and Woo is nothing


He has more value then Holl
Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:27 a.m.
#3
Smythe.over.Hart
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Quoting: Warpbox
He has more value then Holl


How? The guy is a 20 min night big body right hand D man who is valuable on the PK. Cap hit of only 2 million. For 1 year. Look what Columbus paid for a worse version I’m Gudbranson.
People need to stop reading articles by James Tanner.
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:35 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: DrDinkiee
How? The guy is a 20 min night big body right hand D man who is valuable on the PK. Cap hit of only 2 million. For 1 year. Look what Columbus paid for a worse version I’m Gudbranson.
People need to stop reading articles by James Tanner.

He has more value bc he’s going on LTIR and he’ll still take up cap space. If dubas wanted to get rid of holl and kerfoot for value by now, he would’ve done it. The value is simply not there and it probably costs value to move those players. In this current market, I’m gonna have to agree that ferland $0 against the cap is more valuable than Holl’s 2 mil in a flat cap world
Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:41 a.m.
#5
Ovchinnikov 137
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Leafs will not want anyone on LTIR so they can accrue cap space for the TDL. Take out Ferland
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:42 a.m.
#6
Smythe.over.Hart
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Quoting: Erkadurk347
He has more value bc he’s going on LTIR and he’ll still take up cap space. If dubas wanted to get rid of holl and kerfoot for value by now, he would’ve done it. The value is simply not there and it probably costs value to move those players. In this current market, I’m gonna have to agree that ferland $0 against the cap is more valuable than Holl’s 2 mil in a flat cap world


Accruing cap space in a flat cap world is much more valuable.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:44 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: DrDinkiee
Accruing cap space in a flat cap world is much more valuable.


?
Acquiring a player that will be paid money by an insurance company instead of going on cap space is 1000% more valuable than having a guy who was a mistake machine making 2 mil in a flat cap world. In real life, if the leafs wanna offload holl and kerfoot’s contracts, they are gonna have to pay teams to do so
Aug. 16, 2022 at 10:45 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Warpbox
He has more value then Holl


Quoting: DrDinkiee
How? The guy is a 20 min night big body right hand D man who is valuable on the PK. Cap hit of only 2 million. For 1 year. Look what Columbus paid for a worse version I’m Gudbranson. People need to stop reading articles by James Tanner.


Yup.

Your small offensive d-man prospect ... drafted 5 years ago ... getting 6 points a year in the AHL ... is worth more than Holl.

Holl would be Vancouver's 3rd best defensemen ... making $2,000,000 ... while VAN pays 3 other defensemen over $6,000,000.

Yikes.
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:00 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: DrDinkiee
How? The guy is a 20 min night big body right hand D man who is valuable on the PK. Cap hit of only 2 million. For 1 year. Look what Columbus paid for a worse version I’m Gudbranson.
People need to stop reading articles by James Tanner.


In a vacuum maybe, but Toronto needs to move his contract. I highly, highly doubt he gets anything of value
Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:01 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Yup.

Your small offensive d-man prospect ... drafted 5 years ago ... getting 6 points a year in the AHL ... is worth more than Holl.

Holl would be Vancouver's 3rd best defensemen ... making $2,000,000 ... while VAN pays 3 other defensemen over $6,000,000.

Yikes.


Toronto needs to move him. He’s not going to get a good return
Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:17 a.m.
#11
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Quoting: DrDinkiee
Accruing cap space in a flat cap world is much more valuable.


Quoting: Warpbox
Toronto needs to move him. He’s not going to get a good return


Quoting: Erkadurk347
In real life, if the Leafs wanna offload Kerfoot’s contracts, they are gonna have to pay teams to do so


Just a quick reminder of last seasons performance:

$3,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Alex Kerfoot
$6,700,000 cap-hit | 46 points | Brock Boeser
$4,800,000 cap-hit | 32 points | Ilya Mikheyev
$5,000,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Conor Garland
$5,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Bo Horvat

One of these contracts is far better than the rest lol.

And Kerfoot's points are all ES and PK points.

Here's a good example:

50 = Alex Kerfoot's even-strength points last season.
41 = E. Pettersson's even-strength points last season.

Kerfoot was far more productive than Pettersson last season.
He just isn't gifted 3 minutes of power play time every game like EP.
He kills penalties instead. Why would TOR even want to move him?
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:25 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Just a quick reminder of last seasons performance:

$3,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Alex Kerfoot

$6,700,000 cap-hit | 46 points | Brock Boeser
$4,800,000 cap-hit | 32 points | Ilya Mikheyev
$5,000,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Conor Garland
$5,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Bo Horvat

One of these contracts is far better than the rest lol.

And Kerfoot's points are all ES and PK points.

Here's a good example:

50 = Alex Kerfoot's even-strength points last season.
41 = E. Pettersson's even-strength points last season.

Kerfoot was far more productive than Pettersson last season.
He just isn't gifted 3 minutes of power play time every game like EP.
He kills penalties instead. Why would TOR even want to move him?


My point is that they should keep Kerfoot bc he shouldn’t be a cap dump, but it’s pretty clear in this market, he has zero value, probably negative bc of a large cap hit. He’s a cap dump bc no team is willingly taking on his contract even for scraps. They would’ve traded both holl and kerfoot for value by now if that was what the market demanded. But the market never demanded that. I think kerfoot is a great middle six player and well worth his contract, but not to other teams that already formulated their teams in a cap strapped environment
Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:35 a.m.
#13
The Canucks Suck
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I audibly grunted when I saw this post.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 11:50 a.m.
#14
Smythe.over.Hart
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Just a quick reminder of last seasons performance:

$3,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Alex Kerfoot
$6,700,000 cap-hit | 46 points | Brock Boeser
$4,800,000 cap-hit | 32 points | Ilya Mikheyev
$5,000,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Conor Garland
$5,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Bo Horvat

One of these contracts is far better than the rest lol.

And Kerfoot's points are all ES and PK points.

Here's a good example:

50 = Alex Kerfoot's even-strength points last season.
41 = E. Pettersson's even-strength points last season.

Kerfoot was far more productive than Pettersson last season.
He just isn't gifted 3 minutes of power play time every game like EP.
He kills penalties instead. Why would TOR even want to move him?


Nice post! So many people don’t understand what we have with Kerfoot. Holl will unfortunately be a casualty I am thinking. But it’s Dubas lovely big contracts that are the real enemy here.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:05 p.m.
#15
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Just a quick reminder of last seasons performance:

$3,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Alex Kerfoot
$6,700,000 cap-hit | 46 points | Brock Boeser
$4,800,000 cap-hit | 32 points | Ilya Mikheyev
$5,000,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Conor Garland
$5,500,000 cap-hit | 52 points | Bo Horvat

One of these contracts is far better than the rest lol.

And Kerfoot's points are all ES and PK points.

Here's a good example:

50 = Alex Kerfoot's even-strength points last season.
41 = E. Pettersson's even-strength points last season.

Kerfoot was far more productive than Pettersson last season.
He just isn't gifted 3 minutes of power play time every game like EP.
He kills penalties instead. Why would TOR even want to move him?


Ah yes kerfoots 13 goals definitely more impressive than petterssons 30. And kerfoots on ice shooting percentage of 11.23% 5v5 has nothing to do with his career best year in assists!

Kerfoot is fine and a decent middle 6er but WOW are we reaching trying to claim he’s better than any of those players listed above. Ignoring Mikheyev only played 52 games eh? Or Boeser scored 49 points in 56 games in 2021, including 23 goals, or Horvat scoring over 30 goals this past year in 70 games, 12 less than Kerfoot.

Kerfoot has averaged, since arriving in Toronto, a 12 goal and 40 point pace per 82 games.

A better comparable would be Pearson, who has averaged a 42 point, 19 goal pace over 82 games over the same time period, has nearly the same cap hit as Kerfoot, and plays about more similar minutes 5v5.

And the reason Toronto would want to trade Kerfoot is that they are well over the salary cap right now and still have to sign Sandin and he is a redundant piece for them.

Anyways, Kerfoot doesn’t even matter here because he’s literally not even in the trade lol
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:09 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Yup.

Your small offensive d-man prospect ... drafted 5 years ago ... getting 6 points a year in the AHL ... is worth more than Holl.

Holl would be Vancouver's 3rd best defensemen ... making $2,000,000 ... while VAN pays 3 other defensemen over $6,000,000.

Yikes.


Did you just call Jett woo a small offensive Dman? Lol maybe need to brush up on your scouting report before you criticize the trade.

Anyways, the reason the leafs would theortically do this trade is they clear holl’s $2 million I cap hit and in return get a waiver exempt player for the Marlies. Leafs are
Over the cap right now unless they ice a 20 man roster and they still have to sign Sandin. They have to make some cap shedding moves.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:11 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Leafs will not want anyone on LTIR so they can accrue cap space for the TDL. Take out Ferland


In such case the trade will be declined by Vancouver since that is the main benefit for them in this trade.

Taking on Holl’s cap hit means they will only be able to run a 22 man roster. Being in LTIR overage AND having a 22 man roster is a risk not worth taking.

Canucks can probably just sign dehaan for 500 or 600k less than Holl and be cap compliant with a 23 man roster.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:15 p.m.
#18
Owly
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Quoting: Warpbox
He has more value then Holl


A player who will never play again and a prospect who will never make it to the NHL are more valuable than an RD who would be your best RD. Are you hoping to finish last or something? Because improving your team is generally a good plan.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:26 p.m.
#19
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: The_Rocket
In such case the trade will be declined by Vancouver since that is the main benefit for them in this trade.

Taking on Holl’s cap hit means they will only be able to run a 22 man roster. Being in LTIR overage AND having a 22 man roster is a risk not worth taking.

Canucks can probably just sign dehaan for 500 or 600k less than Holl and be cap compliant with a 23 man roster.


I don't believe there is a market for Holl. He is more important to the Leafs than any other team. The Leafs ran with a 21 man roster last year and I fully expect them to run that again. They had room to run a 22 man roster to start (Mikheyev got injured and did not play the first 30 games) but once activated they had a 21 man roster.

Kerfoot will be the man out either as a 1v1 trade with a cap hit around 1.5-2 or for a B-C prospect like the Johansson trade for Anderson.

Leafs have dealt with numerous injuries' on the backend, I will be very surprised if they feel confident in trading Holl who plays big mins and relay on Benn and Mete.

Plus VAN is going to be in the same position once Poolman is healthy, don't see the fit with the Canucks. The Kraken tho could be for Holl.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:32 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
A player who will never play again and a prospect who will never make it to the NHL are more valuable than an RD who would be your best RD. Are you hoping to finish last or something? Because improving your team is generally a good plan.


He would be nice to add. But the NHL likes too make cap strapped teams not get as much as they should get for players. He’s at best getting a 4th
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:35 p.m.
#21
Owly
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Quoting: Warpbox
He would be nice to add. But the NHL likes too make cap strapped teams not get as much as they should get for players. He’s at best getting a 4th


Then I would keep him and a 4th is better than this nothing return.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:37 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Then I would keep him and a 4th is better than this nothing return.


This return is probably around equivalent to a 4th, which is the maximum Holl will return. More likely he gets a 5th.

I don’t dislike Holl, but I’d rather just flip a puck or something
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:38 p.m.
#23
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I don't believe there is a market for Holl. He is more important to the Leafs than any other team. The Leafs ran with a 21 man roster last year and I fully expect them to run that again. They had room to run a 22 man roster to start (Mikheyev got injured and did not play the first 30 games) but once activated they had a 21 man roster.

Kerfoot will be the man out either as a 1v1 trade with a cap hit around 1.5-2 or for a B-C prospect like the Johansson trade for Anderson.

Leafs have dealt with numerous injuries' on the backend, I will be very surprised if they feel confident in trading Holl who plays big mins and relay on Benn and Mete.

Plus VAN is going to be in the same position once Poolman is healthy, don't see the fit with the Canucks. The Kraken tho could be for Holl.


Good point tbh. Leafs lean heavily on Holl. Even after they aquired both Lybushkin and Giordano last year they still played Holl over his head.

I was just trying to find a way out of ferland lti
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Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:40 p.m.
#24
Owly
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Quoting: The_Rocket
Good point tbh. Leafs lean heavily on Holl. Even after they aquired both Lybushkin and Giordano last year they still played Holl over his head.

I was just trying to find a way out of ferland lti


Once they got those two, Holl didn't play much but did get in during the playoffs because he's a better PK guy than Liljegren. He's a good player without question.
Aug. 16, 2022 at 12:42 p.m.
#25
Owly
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I don't believe there is a market for Holl. He is more important to the Leafs than any other team. The Leafs ran with a 21 man roster last year and I fully expect them to run that again. They had room to run a 22 man roster to start (Mikheyev got injured and did not play the first 30 games) but once activated they had a 21 man roster.

Kerfoot will be the man out either as a 1v1 trade with a cap hit around 1.5-2 or for a B-C prospect like the Johansson trade for Anderson.

Leafs have dealt with numerous injuries' on the backend, I will be very surprised if they feel confident in trading Holl who plays big mins and relay on Benn and Mete.

Plus VAN is going to be in the same position once Poolman is healthy, don't see the fit with the Canucks. The Kraken tho could be for Holl.


Kerfoot is easier to replace than Holl. That is absolutely correct. Keeping Holl means TO has a capable RD to jump in or slide up when we need him. Injuries are going to happen and I hope we don't see Benn or Mete ever.
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