SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/NHL Trades

(CGY/MTL) - Monahan, conditional 2025 1st for future considerations

Who won the trade?
The chart has been hidden

Poll Options


Aug. 18, 2022 at 10:49 p.m.
#76
KSIxSKULLS
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,702
Likes: 10,265
Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Buffalo should've gotten him simply because they are in a position to. Adding a 1st rounder in a year BUF will be contenders is huge. Sabres have $30M in space. They can absorb the cap hit. Buy him out. Trade him with 50% retained. Who cares?


Some owners wouldn't be willing to pay 6 Million for dead weight. Thank god Molson cares more about winning than Money. I can't say the same about the Pegula's.
Aug. 18, 2022 at 10:53 p.m.
#77
Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Am Yisrael Chai
Avatar of the user
Joined: Oct. 2018
Posts: 18,565
Likes: 6,713
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Some owners wouldn't be willing to pay 6 Million for dead weight. Thank god Molson cares more about winning than Money. I can't say the same about the Pegula's.


That's what sets aside the good teams and the bad teams. History will tell ya.

Pegulas would still be pocketing $23.5M. Ridiculous.
KSIxSKULLS liked this.
Aug. 18, 2022 at 10:53 p.m.
#78
OldNYIfan
Once a Kings Fan Too
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 40,100
Likes: 25,016
Quoting: GenXHockey
Calgary got absolutely destroyed in this trade. Monahan is still a serviceable player. A 1st to move a guy who is overpaid is very bad. Marleau trade canes received no player and the full cap hit in one season.


I don't know if you noticed, but literally FIVE MINUTES before this trade was announced, I posted an ACGM contending that Calgary didn't have to, AND WOULDN'T, pay with a first to move Monahan.
GenXHockey liked this.
Aug. 18, 2022 at 11:13 p.m.
#79
sensonfire
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 11,768
Likes: 4,438
This is what I wrote in the site discussion on the forums.

To make it easier to understand, I made a point-form list that breaks it down into smaller chunks.




1. If Calgary's 2024 first is between #20 and #32, Montreal can have that or decide to wait until 2025.




2. If Montreal waits until 2025 and is able to receive Florida's 2025 first from Calgary:

> Montreal receives Florida's 2025 first if Calgary's 2025 first is in the Top 10.

> Montreal receives whichever of the two firsts is higher if Calgary's 2025 first is not in the Top 10.




3. If Montreal waits until 2025 and Florida's 2025 first is not available:

> Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 first if it is not in the Top 10.

> Montreal also receives Calgary's 2025 fourth ...

>>> if Florida's 2025 first is not in the Top 10 ...
>>> if Florida's 2025 first is traded to another team ...
>>> and if it's higher than Calgary's 2025 first.




4. If Montreal waits until 2025, if Florida's 2025 first is not available and if Calgary's 2025 first is in the Top 10:

> Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 first if it's not #1




5. If Montreal waits until 2025, if Florida's 2025 first is not available and if Calgary's 2025 first is #1:

> Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 third + whichever 2026 first is higher between Calgary and Florida
Aug. 18, 2022 at 11:16 p.m.
#80
sensonfire
sensonfire
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2021
Posts: 11,768
Likes: 4,438
Quoting: Devil
Here are the conditions associated with the first-round selection acquired by Montreal:

1. In the event Calgary's own 2024 first (1st) round choice is selection 20-32 (inclusive) (following the determination of the 2024 NHL Draft lottery results), then Montreal shall have the option, exercisable until 48 hours prior to the start of the 2024 NHL draft, to exchange the conditional 2025 or 2026 first round choice to become Calgary's own 2024 first (1st) round choice); or,

If Florida's 2025 First (1st) Round Choice Transfers to Calgary (pursuant to the conditions on an earlier trade)

2. In the event the conditions to trigger Montreal's option as noted in #1 above does not occur, or Montreal declines to exercise this option, the following conditions shall prevail:

A) If both Calgary's own 2025 first (1st) round choice and Florida's 2025 first (1st) round choice (previously acquired by Calgary) are not in the top-10 selections of the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), then Montreal shall receive the earlier of the two (2) stated choices; or,
B) If Calgary's own 2025 first (1st) round choice is a top-10 selection and Florida's 2025 first round selection (previously acquired by Calgary) is outside of the top-10 selections (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Montreal shall receive Florida's 2025 first (1st) round choice).
If Florida's 2025 First Round Choice DOES NOT Transfer to Calgary (pursuant to the conditions on an earlier trade)

3. In the event the conditions to trigger Montreal's option as noted in #1 above does not occur, or Montreal declines to exercise this option, the following conditions shall prevail:

A. If Calgary's own 2025 first (1st) round choice is not in the top-10 selections of the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Montreal shall receive Calgary's own 2025 first (1st) round choice, and additionally,

1) If Florida's own 2025 first (1st) round choice is not in the top-10 selections of the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results); and,
2) Florida's 2025 first (1st) round choice has been transferred to another NHL Club; and,
3) Florida's 2025 first round draft position is better than Calgary's 2025 first round draft position; then Calgary will transfer their own 2025 fourth round choice to Montreal.
B. If Calgary's own 2025 first (1st) round choice is a top-10 selection (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Montreal shall receive Calgary's 2025 first (1st) round choice, subject to the following condition below:

1) In the event Calgary's 2025 first (1st) round choice is the first (1st) selection overall in the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Calgary will retain its own 2025 first (1st) round choice and Montreal shall instead receive Calgary's own 2025 third (3rd) round choice and a conditional 2026 first (1st) round choice. Montreal shall receive the better of Calgary's 2026 first (1st) round choice or Florida's 2026 first (1st) round choice (following the determination of the 2026 NHL Draft lottery results) (previously conditionally acquired by Calgary).


I have a feeling you just copied and pasted from this press release:

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/canadiens-acquire-sean-monahan-from-flames/c-335312254
Aug. 18, 2022 at 11:56 p.m.
#81
Hollands_missing_brain
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 123
Likes: 121
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
It's not really possible to have a bad contract when there's only 1 year left. Right now I consider Monahan having positive value because he can be traded at the TD at 50% retained for assets. Same with Dadonov.


You sure can when it's a contract that puts you over the cap, and that player is getting 6+ mil for 30 points. I don't really expect Monahan to have many teams going after him. Even at 50% it's still an atrocious amount of money to pay for a declining and often injured player. Unless he has some start of the year with a new team, which is possible but unlikely in my opinion.
dopplsan liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 12:43 a.m.
#82
GenXHockey
Formerly Jamiepo
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2018
Posts: 21,156
Likes: 10,700
Quoting: OldNYIfan
I don't know if you noticed, but literally FIVE MINUTES before this trade was announced, I posted an ACGM contending that Calgary didn't have to, AND WOULDN'T, pay with a first to move Monahan.


I did see that, you weren't wrong... but it is a hostile market. But also very inconsistent. Ottawa moves 2 x 4.7m for a 3rd. Leafs move 2 x 3.8m to drop from a late first to an early 2nd. Some players are getting good returns but bjorkstrand goes for peanuts.

It's highly unpredictable right now.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 7:47 a.m.
#83
Colonel_Green
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 81
Likes: 143
Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Buffalo should've gotten him simply because they are in a position to. Adding a 1st rounder in a year BUF will be contenders is huge. Sabres have $30M in space. They can absorb the cap hit. Buy him out. Trade him with 50% retained. Who cares?

If you're saying Buffalo should have taken him and then done those things, if they're on Monahan's no-trade list, they can't obtain him in the first place. There's no reason he would agree to be traded to another team and then bought out when that would mean less money for him.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 7:53 a.m.
#84
dopplsan
Nah.
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 4,427
Likes: 4,293
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
It's not really possible to have a bad contract when there's only 1 year left. Right now I consider Monahan having positive value because he can be traded at the TD at 50% retained for assets. Same with Dadonov.


Unless Monahan (or I guess Dadonov as well) has a circa-2018 bounce back, I really don’t see that happening. Cap space is so limited right now, a lot of deals involving this kind of hit are going to require brokers, which means more assets, or diminished assets.

I think he’s fairly clearly a negative asset, or maybe a below average one at best, considering the cap hit.

But MTL is a rebuilding team that is probably going to be bad this year, has a lot of money to spare, and can fit his cap hit for one year. With all that in mind, even if Monahan doesn’t play well, you basically bought a 1st for $6M. Good for MTL.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 8:20 a.m.
#85
HockeyScotty
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 933
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
It's not really possible to have a bad contract when there's only 1 year left. Right now I consider Monahan having positive value because he can be traded at the TD at 50% retained for assets. Same with Dadonov.


Precisely. If he rebounds with 30 pts in 50 games; somehow will pay 1st or 2nd at the deadline for him with 50% retention.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 8:21 a.m.
#86
HockeyScotty
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 933
Quoting: dopplsan
Unless Monahan (or I guess Dadonov as well) has a circa-2018 bounce back, I really don’t see that happening. Cap space is so limited right now, a lot of deals involving this kind of hit are going to require brokers, which means more assets, or diminished assets.

I think he’s fairly clearly a negative asset, or maybe a below average one at best, considering the cap hit.

But MTL is a rebuilding team that is probably going to be bad this year, has a lot of money to spare, and can fit his cap hit for one year. With all that in mind, even if Monahan doesn’t play well, you basically bought a 1st for $6M. Good for MTL.


At the deadline $3.2mil can easily be absorbed by most non-LTIR teams (like the Avs for example).
dopplsan liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 8:30 a.m.
#87
jr400
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2021
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 546
I think this is a good trade for both teams, especially Montreal. For Calgary, this trade made it possible for them to sign Kadri, so they effectively get Kadri for one year of Monahan and a 1st-round pick three years out that is probably not going to be in the top 10. I’ll save my opinion on the Kadri signing for that forum, but that seems like a good return.

For Montreal, I suspect this is mostly about trading their newfound cap space for futures. I think a 1st-round pick is a fair return for a cap dump of that size. Some people have compared this to the Marleau trade of a few years ago, but Marleau had a no-move clause that he agreed to waive only on the condition that he be bought out. He wasn’t going to play for Carolina. Monahan can’t be bought out, but he could be a useful player for Montreal. They seem pretty deep at center now, but I guess somebody could move to the wing, and Monahan is still young enough that he could bounce back with the change of scenery, so that’s a potential up-side for Montreal that Carolina didn’t have with Marleau.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 8:53 a.m.
#88
Bobcat205
cautious optimism
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2021
Posts: 3,004
Likes: 5,753
I think i've read entire books with less words than the conditions explanation here
Aug. 19, 2022 at 9:01 a.m.
#89
jr400
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2021
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 546
The conditions on this draft pick are ridiculous. The condition on Florida’s 2025 1st-round pick coming to Calgary is “lottery protected”, which means the only way Calgary won’t get it is if it’s in the top two. That means all that complicated stuff about what happens if the Florida pick slides to 2026 probably isn’t going to happen, so I’m not going to give it much thought except that there appears to be a couple of scenarios, albeit extremely unlikely, where Montreal could get a top two pick out of this deal. That would be an unprecedented return for a cap dump.

The thing I find really crazy is that as complicated as these conditions are, they don’t cover all possibilities. What happens if Florida’s 2025 pick is in position 3-10? It doesn’t say which pick Montreal would get in that case. They should have worded it like the condition on the Dvorak trade, which said they get the better of the two picks unless at least one of them is in the top 10, in which case they get the worst of the two. Simple and clear.

Another missing piece of information that I’m curious about is when does Montreal have to decide if they want the 2024 pick? Can they wait until the pick comes up and decide at the last minute to exercise their option, or do they have to decide before the draft starts? It’s more valuable if they can wait, because highly rated players sometimes slide down in the draft. There may be somebody they like available who they didn’t think would still be available that late.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 9:02 a.m.
#90
dopplsan
Nah.
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 4,427
Likes: 4,293
Quoting: HockeyScotty
At the deadline $3.2mil can easily be absorbed by most non-LTIR teams (like the Avs for example).


True, and if Monahan bounces back to be a 70-point guy, someone will probably try to make that move. I just don't see that bounce-back happening. Plus, the market is also affected by whatever other moves those teams want to make.
HockeyScotty liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 9:10 a.m.
#91
HockeyScotty
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 933
Quoting: dopplsan
True, and if Monahan bounces back to be a 70-point guy, someone will probably try to make that move. I just don't see that bounce-back happening. Plus, the market is also affected by whatever other moves those teams want to make.


Sure, but with the Habs having cap space it is a good gamble to make. Heck they could even put a line of Drouin-Monahan-Dadonov out and call it the "DeadLine".

Another off-shoot of this transaction and assuming Dach signs a one-way deal: how does Slafkovsky find a spot in Montreal this year? They were already flush with forwards as it is
dopplsan and drambui liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 9:29 a.m.
#92
KSIxSKULLS
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,702
Likes: 10,265
Quoting: Hollands_missing_brain
You sure can when it's a contract that puts you over the cap, and that player is getting 6+ mil for 30 points. I don't really expect Monahan to have many teams going after him. Even at 50% it's still an atrocious amount of money to pay for a declining and often injured player. Unless he has some start of the year with a new team, which is possible but unlikely in my opinion.


I don't expect many teams to go after him either unless he rebounds into a 3rd line center. It's only 3 Milllion, so not like it will be hard to absorb.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 10:24 a.m.
#93
Hollands_missing_brain
Avatar of the user
Joined: Aug. 2021
Posts: 123
Likes: 121
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I don't expect many teams to go after him either unless he rebounds into a 3rd line center. It's only 3 Milllion, so not like it will be hard to absorb.


My way of thinking is if I have 3 million to play around with at the deadline and a contender, he's not near the top of options to go after. But like it's been said, if he rebounds into something reasonable then all bets are off
Aug. 19, 2022 at 10:40 a.m.
#94
ColonelX
Evans truther
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 2,506
Likes: 1,434
Edited Aug. 19, 2022 at 10:54 a.m.
Quoting: jr400
Another missing piece of information that I’m curious about is when does Montreal have to decide if they want the 2024 pick? Can they wait until the pick comes up and decide at the last minute to exercise their option, or do they have to decide before the draft starts? It’s more valuable if they can wait, because highly rated players sometimes slide down in the draft. There may be somebody they like available who they didn’t think would still be available that late.

Montreal has up to 48 hours before the 2024 draft to decide to exercise their option.

Quoting: HockeyScotty
Another off-shoot of this transaction and assuming Dach signs a one-way deal: how does Slafkovsky find a spot in Montreal this year? They were already flush with forwards as it is

Laval bound, no big deal tehre considering he'll be in a much better (winning) environment.

Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I don't expect many teams to go after him either unless he rebounds into a 3rd line center. It's only 3 Milllion, so not like it will be hard to absorb.

If he bounces back good, I could see someone paying Copp's price for him (.6ppg trade year and 3.6M$ cap hit on an expiring deal).
HockeyScotty liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 2:55 p.m.
#95
Dahlin_On_Me
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2018
Posts: 124
Likes: 103
1st Rounder for a Salary dump. Only wish the Sabres jumped on this first. Hopefully GMKA is paying attention; the bar is set and lots and lot of teams in a bad way to meet the Cap
Aug. 19, 2022 at 3:20 p.m.
#96
jr400
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2021
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 546
Quoting: ColonelX
Montreal has up to 48 hours before the 2024 draft to decide to exercise their option.


In that case, unless they think there are significantly more top prospects in the 2024 draft than in 2025, I’d be inclined to wait for the 2025 pick. There’s a better chance it’ll be a higher pick. On the other hand, they wouldn’t have put that option in if Montreal didn’t think they might use it, so maybe their early projections say that 2024 is going to be a better draft.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 3:38 p.m.
#97
LeafsForLife
Lifelong Leafs Fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2020
Posts: 357
Likes: 196
Quoting: dopplsan
To everyone in the ACGMs thinking they can move salary at the cost of like, a 5th round pick, please take note.


That’s the cost of cap dumping after the draft. Mrazek makes about 60% of what Monahan makes, but the cost to dump Mrazek was less than 60% of what it took to dump Monahan.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 3:55 p.m.
#98
ColonelX
Evans truther
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 2,506
Likes: 1,434
Quoting: jr400
In that case, unless they think there are significantly more top prospects in the 2024 draft than in 2025, I’d be inclined to wait for the 2025 pick. There’s a better chance it’ll be a higher pick. On the other hand, they wouldn’t have put that option in if Montreal didn’t think they might use it, so maybe their early projections say that 2024 is going to be a better draft.

It'll depend, if the picks around 26-32 it's pretty unlikely but if it's 20-21 there's a case to be made... It's unlikely that they sunk very bad the year after and if there's a couple of interesting guys in that range you better call it and save a year of development versus a 2025 or 2026 pick.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 3:56 p.m.
#99
HockeyScotty
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 933
Quoting: LeafsForLife
That’s the cost of cap dumping after the draft. Mrazek makes about 60% of what Monahan makes, but the cost to dump Mrazek was less than 60% of what it took to dump Monahan.


There was rumor that part of the Mrazek deal was payback for the leak too
Andy_Dick liked this.
Aug. 19, 2022 at 4:05 p.m.
#100
aadoyle
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 33,701
Likes: 20,876
To simplify this trade's conditions

FafZFzcXkAAH6qh?format=png&name=large
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Loading animation
Submit Poll Edit