Jets decline neither is a need and give up the most valuable piece

Anaheim declines. Verbeek has already said he doesn’t want any cap dumps that have more than one year left plus there is no incentive to take the deal

Ducks pass. They aren’t going to take on 3 years of Armia just because. Sure he could rebound or he could also be a very high priced 13th forward. Just because a team has cap space doesn’t mean that have to use it.

The ducks are gonna need every dollar of cap space once Zegras and Terry get paid. And depending on what Drysdale gets all the cap space the ducks are looking at could be relatively gone.

Hoffman is a pure cap dump and moving two years of his awful contract will cost at least a first if you want that much in return.

When will habs fans start to apply the same logic to their own cap dumps that is applied when they take on cap dump lol. Cap space is so scarce right now that it is going to take a 1st plus to dump multi-year cap dumps. You just got a first just to take on one single year of Monahan. Pretending your players are so much better is just homerism and nothing more.

Respecfully disagree. The Jets bottom 6 is not very good. Neither is their defense. Adding Hoffman helps their depth, and Norlinder gives them another future option on their blueline. I get Hoffman doesn't carry a ton of value, but is a guy who can produce 20 goals and 40-45 points fully healthy not more valuable than simply giving up a 3rd round pick? I don't think the value is unreasonable at all, and getting a 20 goal scorer for 4.5 mil is honestly fair market value in todays NHL, especially for the Jets would can afford him. I don't see a huge reach here, with all due respect.

That's fair enough

Yeah I figured that would be the counter argument. Totally fair. I just figured if Armia was to be dumped, it would be to a team that has the cap and could use internal improvements. But I get what you're saying from the Ducks persepctive.

I'm sorry, but Hoffman is at a very reasonable cap hit for his production. A guy who can score 20 goals and 40-45 points fully healthy at 4.5 mil is fair value in todays NHL. Hoffman doesn't have a lot of value, I get it. But his contract in comparison to his production is not nearly bad enough that Montreal would have to throw in a first to get rid of him.

Lol Monahan at 6 mil, coming off the worse season of his career, compared to a guy like Hoffman, who played more games, had more points, and at a much cheaper cap hit for guy who over 82 games is a 20 goal and 40-45 point player (please look at the pace he was on before you claim i'm overrating him). A guy like that is making over 4 mil, not 7 plus. A 20 goal scorer at that cap hit is fair value in todays NHL, and all I suggested was a 3rd. And for Armia, ok I could see your point there, attaching a 3rd or even 2nd round pick seems more resonable to dump almost half of what Monahan makes btw, but I see that's not relevant I guess... But even so, I'm dumping him for NOTHING, and yet that's seen as overvaluing Habs players? Yeah getting literally no value back for these guys is the definition of homerism lol....

Lol so in the same statement you call out Monahan for having a bad season then go "look at the numbers Hoffman could have had IF he had played the entire season".
Center is more valued than wingers. It has always been that way.
BTW if anyone wants a player that has off-ice baggage, is only good for offense, and can only play winger, then why on earth wouldn't they just sign Kessel?? At least he has won some cups .... like come on now.

Just looked up the stats and yikes.... Hoffman was even worse defensively than I could have imagined.

Hoffman hasn't scored 20 goals for the past two seasons and wasn't wanted by any team other than Montreal when he was a ufa. He has a bad contract for a ~30 point player, that is a locker room cancer and has poor moral character. He's an unwanted player and is a pure cap dump that will cost Montreal to unload if they are able to.

I know Montreal fans don't want to admit it to themselves, but $9.0 mil of Hoffman will definitely cost Montreal to unload.

This but the opposite Hoffman is a cap dump remove norlinder and add Florida 1st then deal

Well he objectively would have hit at least 20 goals in each of the last 2 seasons. He scored 17 in 52 games 2 years ago (27 goal pace), and 15 in 67 last year (5 more goals over a 15 game span is far from a reach). So yes, he is a perrenial 20 goal scorer and a 40-45 point player over 82 games making less than 5 mil. I won't argue the off ice stuff with you, cause i'm judging based off of his on ice production. Based on his production, he alone has fair value in my opinion. But I added Norlinder, since I thought him being a dump would require the Habs to give up more. But needing to attach a 1st just to clear a 4.5 AAV cap hit for a guy who can still produce at a half a point per game rate just seems a bit greedy to me to be honest. That would imply that Hoffman has no value at all, which I don't believe that to be true.

He played on the worst team in the NHL. Which lead to him playing far to high up the lineup and having far to much PP time. His numbers last season were inflated because of that. No basically any other team he's playing 2nd PP and limited 3rd line minutes with players that drive far less offense. He's a cap dump plain and simple. Try to twist it anyway you want. Also Norlander would be the Jets 5th ranked LD prospect behind Heinola, Samberg, Chisholm and Stanley. He is not a player of interest at all.

Pace is meaningless. The fact is that he hasn't been able to stay healthy enough to play a full season and at his age, it's not getting any more likely that he will play a complete season. So, hisproduction is what it is, roughly 30 points. Then add in, that Hoffman is completely useless anywhere other than the opponents end. He's not even average at anything else. He's abysmal defensively, can't be trusted in his own end and adds nothing to a team outside of being a marginal, offense only winger.

It's not greedy asking for a first, it's the going price. What did Montreal get for taking $6 mil of Monahan? A first. So, someone taking on $9 mil of Hoffman is completely justified in asking for a first, minimum.

If you don't want to pay it, you can just hang onto him. You seen convinced he's still a good player. That or maybe retain half to reduce the cost to dump him.

Won't argue the off ice stuff, cause I'm judging what he is as a player, and yes no question terrible defensively, won't deny that, but still a very respectable offensive player. And of course I'm going to call out Monahan, he had a much worse season then Hoffman did in about the same amount of games played, and is 1.5 mil more expensive. How can we base Hoffman's value by comparing him to a guy who is more expensive and was less productive? Hoffman is at a relatively reasonable cap hit in comparison to his production, where as Monahan is a significant overpayment compared to what he produced at. A guy who scores at a 20 goal and 40-45 point rate getting paid 4.5 mil needs a 1st attached to him just to be moved? I get Hoffman ain't worth the moon, I am fully aware (3rd round pick in return is far from that in hindsight), but attaching a 1st to a guy whose cap hit is fair market value compared to his production just seems greedy to me. It's not me overrating him, but simply disagree that him and Monahan carry even remotely similar trade value. A more productive and cheaper player has to count for something...

Well yeah of course he's a cap dump, thats why I'm trading him. Just saying the value is there for someone of his caliber, not much, but far from non-existent. Also, the inflated argument, c'mon, production is production..

Ok I see your point, but Monahan is more expensive, and was less productive. 4.5 mil for better production, I don't believe needs a 1st added. Monahan being way more injury prone and making 6 mil is a significant gap in value in comparison. Also, the salary cap is suppose to go up so even if Hoffman has 2 years on his deal, it should take up a smaller percentage of the cap potentially in year 2. I don't think Hoffman is that good, but not bad enough that he would need more picks attached to him. But whatever. Agree or disagree, quite frankly I don't care. I just did this as a hypothetical for fun. Even though the trade on its surface is fine, and the return is barely anything as it is, I guess I can't win here...

It was a good discussion though. The only thing I can add that you are discounting is that even though Hoffman has a $4.5 cap hit, you're still asking a team to spend $9 mil on him over 2 years, which is a lot. There are far better ways to spend $9 mil.

That's definetly fair, from the Jets perspective

The most important ability is often availability you get zero if you're not on the ice.
He's a bad guy, has had major issues on multiple teams,, and doesn't know what the defensive zone looks like.

I am starting to realize that no one on Capfriendly has any real hockey experience. Teams look at production and how and why its happening. Seeing a player on a weak team get feed mins that they won't get on another team is something all pro teams and most junior teams look at.