SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/NHL

2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #12 - On The Links

Sep. 6, 2022 at 11:38 a.m.
#751
EklundCelebriniSmith
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 10,057
Likes: 12,816
Quoting: Juiceman
Goalies are weird. A couple years ago I thought that Hart and Blackwood would be the next elite goalie tandem for Canada's national team...


Cant blame yeah, I believed the same as that was what their trend was looking like.

I believe both guys actually still have that “potential” in them but I think Blackwood will cooked if he has another down year.

But Devan Dubnyk is a great example of a “weird ****ing goalie”. Guy was a LATE BLOOMER.
Juiceman, capsfan2121, Saskleaf and 1 other person liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 11:45 a.m.
#752
Ex Nucks fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2021
Posts: 17,615
Likes: 17,624
Quoting: yikes
Cant blame yeah, I believed the same as that was what their trend was looking like.

I believe both guys actually still have that “potential” in them but I think Blackwood will cooked if he has another down year.

But Devan Dubnyk is a great example of a “weird ****ing goalie”. Guy was a LATE BLOOMER.


Tim Thomas didn't break into the league until he was like 30. Still managed to crush the dreams of many Canucks fans...
yikes liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 12:12 p.m.
#753
Ex Nucks fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2021
Posts: 17,615
Likes: 17,624
Why are Canadian fanbases the worst?

Toronto fans: I think we all know the problem here

Habs fans: Their ACGMs make you question your sanity

Canucks fans: Endless trade proposals makes you want to throw your screen out the window

Now Oilers fans: Tyson Barrie is elite and on a steal of a deal.
kdawg32086 liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 12:13 p.m.
#754
torontos finest
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 11,169
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I mean Halifax is usually 1 or 2 in Attendance in the QMJHL so I think it is just for them to get a team.


Halifax couldn't support an NHL team because it doesn't have the population.

Major teams need a suitable population in order to draw people from; I personally find metropolitan areas the best way to measure this because it accounts for suburbs and commuter towns. Halifax's metro area has a population of 465,703. Winnipeg, by comparison has a metro area of 834,678. That's an 80% difference between the two cities. Winnipeg is already on the low end of NHL markets, having a population roughly comparable to a place like Columbia, SC or Dayton, OH, but the fact it's the only major team in the area and the overwhelming popularity of hockey in Canada allows it to generate revenue. Halifax would also have these advantages, but it's a tougher sell because that's about 370k less people you have to fill the arena.

Put another way - it everyone in Winnipeg were to go to one NHL home game only at the Canada Life Centre, there would be enough people in the city to attend 54 games. Move the Canada Life Centre to Halifax, and there's enough people to attend 30 games. Sure, that would go up if you used to Scotiabank Centre's seat numbers but you have to remember it's a 10k seater built in the 70s. Unfortunately an expansion team wouldn't get the same pass as Arizona is getting so a larger arena would be mandatory.

EDIT: FWIW I wouldn't hate a team in Halifax personally, but it's a very tough sell.
yikes, DirtyDangle, A_Habs_fan and 1 other person liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 12:53 p.m.
#755
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 4,214
Likes: 5,077
Quoting: mondo
Halifax couldn't support an NHL team because it doesn't have the population.

Major teams need a suitable population in order to draw people from; I personally find metropolitan areas the best way to measure this because it accounts for suburbs and commuter towns. Halifax's metro area has a population of 465,703. Winnipeg, by comparison has a metro area of 834,678. That's an 80% difference between the two cities. Winnipeg is already on the low end of NHL markets, having a population roughly comparable to a place like Columbia, SC or Dayton, OH, but the fact it's the only major team in the area and the overwhelming popularity of hockey in Canada allows it to generate revenue. Halifax would also have these advantages, but it's a tougher sell because that's about 370k less people you have to fill the arena.

Put another way - it everyone in Winnipeg were to go to one NHL home game only at the Canada Life Centre, there would be enough people in the city to attend 54 games. Move the Canada Life Centre to Halifax, and there's enough people to attend 30 games. Sure, that would go up if you used to Scotiabank Centre's seat numbers but you have to remember it's a 10k seater built in the 70s. Unfortunately an expansion team wouldn't get the same pass as Arizona is getting so a larger arena would be mandatory.

EDIT: FWIW I wouldn't hate a team in Halifax personally, but it's a very tough sell.


Completely agree. The problem with adding more canadian teams is population density. A team in pittsburgh, per se, can draw fans from millions of people within a couple hours drive. A team in halifax has a couple million in the whole PROVINCE. Population denisty plays a huge role in why there are more teams in the states.

Though a city like halifax on it's own can support a team maybe, theres no opportunity for fanbase growth because its hours away from any other major city. If I put a team almost anywhere in the states, youve got major cities and millions of people within a small radius.
yikes liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 12:57 p.m.
#756
EklundCelebriniSmith
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 10,057
Likes: 12,816
Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Completely agree. The problem with adding more canadian teams is population density. A team in pittsburgh, per se, can draw fans from millions of people within a couple hours drive. A team in halifax has a couple million in the whole PROVINCE. Population denisty plays a huge role in why there are more teams in the states.

Though a city like halifax on it's own can support a team maybe, theres no opportunity for fanbase growth because its hours away from any other major city. If I put a team almost anywhere in the states, youve got major cities and millions of people within a small radius.


It’s hard because Halifax would rank high in terms of quality fan base/ devoted. But the growth potential is the huge outlier you laid out. And if they are a bad team an already small market could plummet. Like Ottawa draws huge numbers from TOR and MTL - Cali teams all basically share. NY is the same.

I have no doubt tho Halifax is going to show like many assume; the WJC in Hali is going to be a banger. They clearly aren’t a far reach from TOR, MTL in terms of quality fan investment.
MitchMarner_16 liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:18 p.m.
#757
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: mondo
Halifax couldn't support an NHL team because it doesn't have the population.

Major teams need a suitable population in order to draw people from; I personally find metropolitan areas the best way to measure this because it accounts for suburbs and commuter towns. Halifax's metro area has a population of 465,703. Winnipeg, by comparison has a metro area of 834,678. That's an 80% difference between the two cities. Winnipeg is already on the low end of NHL markets, having a population roughly comparable to a place like Columbia, SC or Dayton, OH, but the fact it's the only major team in the area and the overwhelming popularity of hockey in Canada allows it to generate revenue. Halifax would also have these advantages, but it's a tougher sell because that's about 370k less people you have to fill the arena.

Put another way - it everyone in Winnipeg were to go to one NHL home game only at the Canada Life Centre, there would be enough people in the city to attend 54 games. Move the Canada Life Centre to Halifax, and there's enough people to attend 30 games. Sure, that would go up if you used to Scotiabank Centre's seat numbers but you have to remember it's a 10k seater built in the 70s. Unfortunately an expansion team wouldn't get the same pass as Arizona is getting so a larger arena would be mandatory.

EDIT: FWIW I wouldn't hate a team in Halifax personally, but it's a very tough sell.


Not sure there's a correlation between population and people willing to go to a Hockey Game. Like I just said Halifax averages around 7-9k a game for a QMJHL team compared to every other team 5k and below (besides Quebec).
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:20 p.m.
#758
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Completely agree. The problem with adding more canadian teams is population density. A team in pittsburgh, per se, can draw fans from millions of people within a couple hours drive. A team in halifax has a couple million in the whole PROVINCE. Population denisty plays a huge role in why there are more teams in the states.

Though a city like halifax on it's own can support a team maybe, theres no opportunity for fanbase growth because its hours away from any other major city. If I put a team almost anywhere in the states, youve got major cities and millions of people within a small radius.


The entire maritimes is hockey driven. Halifax would draw fans from PEI/NB/NFLD.
EsoYeezus69 liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:38 p.m.
#759
cautious optimism
Avatar of the user
Joined: Mar. 2021
Posts: 3,004
Likes: 5,753
ept_sports_nhl_experts-484986871-1271689696.jpg

I found this image of Shane Doan a couple of minutes ago and thought i would share
NoVaSpartan, MitchMarner_16, oilersguy and 7 others liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:39 p.m.
#760
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 4,214
Likes: 5,077
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
The entire maritimes is hockey driven. Halifax would draw fans from PEI/NB/NFLD.


Oh i know! I lived there for a little bit! Only issue is driving distance. 3 hours and a ferry from PEI to halifax, 4h from St John NB, 12 hours from the nearest point on NFLD. Theres enough poeple in the amritimes, theyre just too spread out. While in the mainland US, the same amount of people are generally accessible within a 1/2hr drive
Saskleaf and yikes liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:40 p.m.
#761
Craig Laughlin Fan
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2019
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 5,707
Quoting: Bobcat205
ept_sports_nhl_experts-484986871-1271689696.jpg

I found this image of Shane Doan a couple of minutes ago and thought i would share


This is new pfp material perhaps
Juiceman, Bobcat205, EsoYeezus69 and 1 other person liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 1:45 p.m.
#762
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Oh i know! I lived there for a little bit! Only issue is driving distance. 3 hours and a ferry from PEI to halifax, 4h from St John NB, 12 hours from the nearest point on NFLD. Theres enough poeple in the amritimes, theyre just too spread out. While in the mainland US, the same amount of people are generally accessible within a 1/2hr drive


Guess it has to do with Growth, I think there's definitely already a sustainable fanbase, but we will never be anything more than just a mid tier franchise (due to the population). Places in the states aren't sustainable, but there's far more Growth potential.
yikes and MitchMarner_16 liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 2:20 p.m.
#763
torontos finest
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 11,169
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Not sure there's a correlation between population and people willing to go to a Hockey Game. Like I just said Halifax averages around 7-9k a game for a QMJHL team compared to every other team 5k and below (besides Quebec).


There is. You want people to attend games and the more people that are hypothetically able to attend a game, the better. 465k isn't enough to sustainably retain a franchise.
Saskleaf liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 2:26 p.m.
#764
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jun. 2022
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 906
Quoting: mondo
There is. You want people to attend games and the more people that are hypothetically able to attend a game, the better. 465k isn't enough to sustainably retain a franchise.


Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Guess it has to do with Growth, I think there's definitely already a sustainable fanbase, but we will never be anything more than just a mid tier franchise (due to the population). Places in the states aren't sustainable, but there's far more Growth potential.


Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Oh i know! I lived there for a little bit! Only issue is driving distance. 3 hours and a ferry from PEI to halifax, 4h from St John NB, 12 hours from the nearest point on NFLD. Theres enough poeple in the amritimes, theyre just too spread out. While in the mainland US, the same amount of people are generally accessible within a 1/2hr drive


Are there any major corporate HQ's in Halifax? Most modern sports teams need a half dozen or so in the hometown
yikes liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 3:15 p.m.
#765
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 33,185
Likes: 20,724
Quoting: csick
Kyrou will ask for at least 7. Tarasenko will for sure walk. If ROR asks for too much money or term , he will ask walk


I feel ROR next deal will be what Kadri signed for 7mill x 7years

Kyrou probs signs a deal similar to Fiala as while he had 10 less points he had a better playoff performance so 7.85mill x 7-8 years

And yeah Tarasenko is gone

But wouldnt surprise me if Blues sign some guy to an awful deal and let ROR go as they seem to do that here and there

Sign Leddy let Perron go
Sign Faulk let Pitrangelo go

And so on
Sep. 6, 2022 at 3:46 p.m.
#766
EklundCelebriniSmith
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 10,057
Likes: 12,816
Is it crazy to think the Blues should trade ROR and Tarasenko this year?

I think it’s worth it - especially if they can flip ROR for a monster youth package and start transition to Thomas/ Kyrou
Sep. 6, 2022 at 4:22 p.m.
#767
torontos finest
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jul. 2019
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 11,169
Quoting: HockeyScotty
Are there any major corporate HQ's in Halifax? Most modern sports teams need a half dozen or so in the hometown


Not really as far as my knowledge goes. Two biggest employers are the government and the port.

Quoting: yikes
Is it crazy to think the Blues should trade ROR and Tarasenko this year?

I think it’s worth it - especially if they can flip ROR for a monster youth package and start transition to Thomas/ Kyrou


I think ROR would re-sign for something reasonable given how his production has declined a bit. Tarasenko is walking so I'd look for a trade partner.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 4:40 p.m.
#768
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 33,185
Likes: 20,724
Edited Sep. 6, 2022 at 4:46 p.m.
Quoting: yikes
Is it crazy to think the Blues should trade ROR and Tarasenko this year?

I think it’s worth it - especially if they can flip ROR for a monster youth package and start transition to Thomas/ Kyrou


I could maybe see Tarasenko get flipped but more likely ROR is gonna get extended. As Blues still want to compete and while you could get a haul losing ROR and Tarasenko would considerably hurt them even if they were to get picks and prospects or depth guys coming back. Unless it was like what we saw with the Tkachuck for Huberdeau kind of deal yeah not the best thing for St. Louis to do
Sep. 6, 2022 at 4:55 p.m.
#769
EklundCelebriniSmith
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 10,057
Likes: 12,816
Quoting: mondo
Not really as far as my knowledge goes. Two biggest employers are the government and the port.



I think ROR would re-sign for something reasonable given how his production has declined a bit. Tarasenko is walking so I'd look for a trade partner.


Quoting: aadoyle
I could maybe see Tarasenko get flipped but more likely ROR is gonna get extended. As Blues still want to compete and while you could get a haul losing ROR and Tarasenko would considerably hurt them even if they were to get picks and prospects or depth guys coming back. Unless it was like what we saw with the Tkachuck for Huberdeau kind of deal yeah not the best thing for St. Louis to do


He’ll be 32 at the end of this year and if his production is similar to this last season, if he wants anymore term than 3, I’m barely paying him more than Giroux based on that. Like 7 x 3y for him may be my max.

If he wants even the fourth year I could lean to the trade.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 6:01 p.m.
#770
Hakuna Matata
Avatar of the user
Joined: Feb. 2020
Posts: 33,185
Likes: 20,724
Quoting: yikes
He’ll be 32 at the end of this year and if his production is similar to this last season, if he wants anymore term than 3, I’m barely paying him more than Giroux based on that. Like 7 x 3y for him may be my max.

If he wants even the fourth year I could lean to the trade.


I could see a similar path to Giroux where if Blues suck within 4 years trade him and move on. As honestly I see O'Rielly aging like Giroux where he will eventually transition to wing and find his second youth

But in general I feel Blues GM will give O'Rielly a Kadri deal where it will be great for 3-4 years then suck the remaining 3 but by then Blues will either have another ring or will pay to move on
Sep. 6, 2022 at 6:27 p.m.
#771
WentWughes
Avatar of the user
Joined: Nov. 2016
Posts: 10,653
Likes: 10,231
Quoting: mondo
There is. You want people to attend games and the more people that are hypothetically able to attend a game, the better. 465k isn't enough to sustainably retain a franchise.


Yet somehow Arizona and their near 2 Million People can't even half fill their 20k Arena. Like I said, population isn't a direct link to filling seats. Halifax sells more QMJHL tickets (and they're more expensive than Coyote tickets)
yikes, Saskleaf and EsoYeezus69 liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 6:28 p.m.
#772
EklundCelebriniSmith
Avatar of the user
Joined: Sep. 2019
Posts: 10,057
Likes: 12,816
Edited Sep. 6, 2022 at 8:55 p.m.
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Yet somehow Arizona and their near 2 Million People can't even half fill their 20k Arena. Like I said, population isn't a direct link to filling seats. Halifax sells more QMJHL tickets (and they're more expensive than Coyote tickets)


Yeah but I would argue using an outlier like Arizona isn’t applicable (as they are an outlier and we all know the organization is Bettmans child)


EDIT: actually Arizona has filled over 10k

Also per EPSN, and HDB Arizona averaged 11k (3rd last), followed by Buffalo (last) and Ottawa (2nd last); the Bottom Five:

Winnipeg 12,716
San Jose 12,573
Arizona 11,601
Buffalo 9,997
Ottawa 9,155
Per Statistica

Would show Winnipeg Buffalo and San Jose as “newer” entries to the sub 15k category. As pre pandemic SJS/WPG/BUF previously were much higher. Ottawa Arizona have had these lows pre pandemic. With Florida New Jersey and Islanders all previously holding the other three lowest attendances that SJS, BUF, WPG all have now taken. Pre Pandemic no team was averaging below 10k (Arizona had 14k, Ottawa had 12k, SJS was a high 16k, Buffalo was 17k).

Arizonas joke of a new a arena is less a problem about the fan base and more of a franchise problem. Arizona previously would have been able to “theoretically” fill basically 3x their new arena. The fans or the city is not the problem - much more an organization problem that was further “not fixed” and resulted in this current situation of playing in a joke of an arena.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 8:01 p.m.
#773
Jamie Benn is BACK
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2022
Posts: 630
Likes: 478
Quoting: yikes
Cant blame yeah, I believed the same as that was what their trend was looking like.

I believe both guys actually still have that “potential” in them but I think Blackwood will cooked if he has another down year.

But Devan Dubnyk is a great example of a “weird ****ing goalie”. Guy was a LATE BLOOMER.


This is part of why I'm glad that Dallas got Oettinger on the 3yr deal at a reasonable AAV. He'll still be a RFA when this deal is up and by that time he'll be more of a sure thing when he gets a BIG pay raise.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 8:06 p.m.
#774
Ovchinnikov 137
Avatar of the user
Joined: Apr. 2019
Posts: 10,412
Likes: 11,982
FbsrucqXEAA84Ga.jpg

A trade, a PTO signing, a new prospect added to the Rookie camp, something pls.
Db1899, LeafsFanForSomeReason, zk97 and 2 others liked this.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 8:11 p.m.
#775
Jamie Benn is BACK
Avatar of the user
Joined: Jan. 2022
Posts: 630
Likes: 478
Quoting: MatthewsFan
FbsrucqXEAA84Ga.jpg

A trade, a PTO signing, a new prospect added to the Rookie camp, something pls.


I mean...something is coming eventually. Over the cap with Sandin still a FA...so eventually you're guaranteed to see something.
MatthewsFan, zk97, yikes and 1 other person liked this.
 
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Submit Poll