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According to Friedman repost

Created by: Blazingbat11
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Aug. 25, 2022
Published: Aug. 25, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Not sure why the original post was deleted (it followed all the rules for ACGM.. as it's discussing trade return possibilities with EDM), so re-posting in case it was a mistake

but anyway...

On 32 thoughts, Friedman indicated at the 16:00 minute mark of the podcast, that EDM tried to sign Klingberg and would of used MTL as a "middle man" team to retain salary.

curious as to what the return would of been.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$2,500,000
Trades
1.
ANA
    Klingberg would of signed with EDM via MTL
    2.
    MTL
    1. 2023 2nd round pick (EDM)
    Additional Details:
    Maybe a player? Poolparty? Yamamoto?
    EDM
    1. Klingberg, John ($3,500,000 retained)
    Buyouts
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2023
    Logo of the MTL
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    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the EDM
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the PIT
    Logo of the VGK
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    2024
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the COL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the EDM
    2025
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the CGY
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    Logo of the MTL
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    22$82,500,000$74,851,666$1,132,500$5,070,000$7,648,334
    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $7,875,000$7,875,000
    C
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $5,500,000$5,500,000
    LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $4,450,000$4,450,000
    C
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    C, RW
    RFA - 4
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
    RW, LW
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $6,375,000$6,375,000
    C, LW, RW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,500,000$2,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $4,500,000$4,500,000
    LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $1,700,000$1,700,000
    C
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $6,500,000$6,500,000
    RW, LW
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 5
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $4,875,000$4,875,000
    LD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $2,875,000$2,875,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $875,000$875,000
    LD/RD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
    RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$507,500$508K)
    LD/RD
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $762,500$762,500
    RD
    UFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $1,100,000$1,100,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $10,500,000$10,500,000
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $3,400,000$3,400,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
    $3,400,000$3,400,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1

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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:02 p.m.
    #1
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    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:04 p.m.
    #2
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    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:05 p.m.
    #3
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    Montreal would've signed klingberg and then traded him to Edmonton with retention. Unlikely this happens now where Anaheim trades him to Edmonton and Montreal retains, but I could be wrong
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:05 p.m.
    #4
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    The explanation given in the podcast was that EDM wanted to sign Klingberg as a UFA. Given that salary cap, EDM would of had MTL sign Klingberg, then trade him to EDM with salary being retained.

    I'll share the link to the podcast. It's discussed around the 16 minute mark.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:05 p.m.
    #5
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    It was likely deleted because it is cap circumvention.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:06 p.m.
    #6
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    Pretty sure he meant that Montreal would sign Klingberg for 1 x $7,000,000, Then flip him to Edmonton at 50% off which is illegal cap circumvention and the league would never allow it.
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:06 p.m.
    #7
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    The report was Montreal signs Klingberg for say 7 Mil then trades him to Edmonton half retained for whatever. IMO that is clear cut cap circumvention and would have been blocked by the league and also IF Montreal signed Klingberg after trading Petry they would have been further ahead to keep him and try to build out the roster for a playoff spot instead since at that moment they did not have any idea Price was going to miss the season.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:06 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.


    where exactly does it says that in the new cba? i've looked into it and could not find anything about that. im not saying i dont believe you but i could not find it.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:06 p.m.
    #9
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    https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/32-thoughts/greetings-from-paris/
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:08 p.m.
    #10
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    Pretty sure he meant that Montreal would sign Klingberg for 1 x $7,000,000, Then flip him to Edmonton at 50% off which is illegal cap circumvention and the league would never allow it.


    Ah ok, yeah, can't do that.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:09 p.m.
    #11
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    A late 2nd won't be enough considering they have a limit of 3 spots and allen, Dadonov, drouin, Monahan, and byron as pending UFAs going into the deadline
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:09 p.m.
    #12
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    Quoting: huey2107
    It was likely deleted because it is cap circumvention.


    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.



    I'm not seeing the rule where it says it. still looking.

    Still a general good discussion to have though. I don't see how it's any different then getting a 3rd team at the trade deadline to retain more salary, thus exceeding the 50% salary retention limit...
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:10 p.m.
    #13
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    Quoting: drambui
    where exactly does it says that in the new cba? i've looked into it and could not find anything about that. im not saying i dont believe you but i could not find it.


    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:11 p.m.
    #14
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    Quoting: Campabee
    The report was Montreal signs Klingberg for say 7 Mil then trades him to Edmonton half retained for whatever. IMO that is clear cut cap circumvention and would have been blocked by the league and also IF Montreal signed Klingberg after trading Petry they would have been further ahead to keep him and try to build out the roster for a playoff spot instead since at that moment they did not have any idea Price was going to miss the season.


    What about arizona signes him then trades him for a 7th to montreal then montreal trade him 50% retaind ? Would that be allowed?
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:12 p.m.
    #15
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.


    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:12 p.m.
    #16
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    Holland: "Hey John, We really want to sign you but we cant afford to pay you what youre worth. So hear me out, you sign in MTL, then they trade you to us while paying half your salary so we dont need to.

    Klingberg: "Broke boi, I'm going to Cali"

    Probably
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:12 p.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.


    im just saying i tried to find that info in the cba before and could not find it. i obviously havent looked at it in the last 5 min. im not challenging you, im just asking for help if you can give any. maybe there was some phrasing i did not understand, but i couldnt find any rules about signing players then trading them retained right away.
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:14 p.m.
    #18
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    Quoting: SMH
    What about arizona signes him then trades him for a 7th to montreal then montreal trade him 50% retaind ? Would that be allowed?


    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:15 p.m.
    #19
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    Quoting: SMH
    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team


    Nope.

    It's still no different, It's still cap circumvention no matter how you slice it.
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:16 p.m.
    #20
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.


    So after what amount of time can a player be traded after signing a contract?
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:23 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.


    So you can definitely trade signed players. FLA and CGY just did it so Tkachuk could get 8 years in FLA.






    So the sticking point here is the retention? right?
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:23 p.m.
    #22
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    who knows if its possible, as far as im concerned its doesnt say you cannot do it in the cba, i could not find any info on it last time i checked. i remember the first time salary was absorbed (the brassard trade i believe?) through a 3rd team, many people though the league would block the trade because the league never though about that scenario when they introduced retained salary, but they let it happen in the end.
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    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:28 p.m.
    #23
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    So without debating the validity if this is possible or not. Let's be hypothetical and say that it is.

    What would be a possible return MTL would of gotten from EDM?
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:29 p.m.
    #24
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    Quoting: Blazingbat11
    So you can definitely trade signed players. FLA and CGY just did it so Tkachuk could get 8 years in FLA.





    You're still wrong it was a sign and trade between Calgary and Florida which is perfectly legal. What you're proposing between Montreal and Edmonton is illegal it's cap circumvention.
    Calgary signed Matthew Tkachuk for 8 x $9,500,000 and in return received Jonathan Huberdeau+MacKenzie Weegar+Prospects and a 1st and 2nd round pick. There's no retention here so it's all perfectly legal.
    So the sticking point here is the retention? right?
    Aug. 25, 2022 at 2:34 p.m.
    #25
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    Quoting: SMH
    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team


    Still cap circumvention, see section 26.3 for how detailed cap circumvention is in the CBA. Basically it states that any attempt to circumvent the cap as determined by the NHL is illegal and will result in severe penalties.

    https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/cba
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