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2023 Draft Pick - Cameron Allen

Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:34 p.m.
#1
HuGo is a Boss GM
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It's totally impossible to trade for a young top pair RHD. The Habs will need to draft one.

The problem. There is only ONE sure thing RHD top line defensemen in this draft and a few teams are gonna want him. I suspect Cameron Allen goes in the top 4-6 just because of the scarcity of defenders available to draft. Basically after Bedard, Michkov, Fantilli... All bets are off. Would you pick Allen ahead of Dvorsky & Yager based on organizational need?
Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:41 p.m.
#2
n.1 Topias Vilen fan
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Never draft for organizational need, period. If you have a surplus of elite centers, for example, you can trade one to fill a hole elsewhere. Devils drafted Nemec since they "have too many centers," but will Nemec be better than Wright or Cooley? Couldn't they just trade Wright for a defenseman to fill that hole and then some?
Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:42 p.m.
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Jimmy Stu
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Ask again in 5 months lol. And depends where the pick is
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Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:46 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: pretzelcoatl
Never draft for organizational need, period. If you have a surplus of elite centers, for example, you can trade one to fill a hole elsewhere. Devils drafted Nemec since they "have too many centers," but will Nemec be better than Wright or Cooley? Couldn't they just trade Wright for a defenseman to fill that hole and then some?


It's easy enough to say - but try and find a team willing to trade a future top line RHD. Even the ones who lucked into one in the 2nd or 3rd round are reluctant to consider it.

You do the exercise. Habs are willing to trade a center who was on team Canada at the WJC and scored 100 points in the QMJHL last season as an 18 year old - Riley Kidney. On top of that they are willing to add picks or other prospects.

Which team will accept to trade a future top-line RHD for that package.
Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:48 p.m.
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Quoting: CMac66
Ask again in 5 months lol. And depends where the pick is


I mean of course. But we're talking now. He's currently ranked like 10th overall. But I bet he climbs... If Habs draft 4 or later... they should consider organizational need over best player available.
Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:53 p.m.
#6
Jimmy Stu
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Quoting: pretzelcoatl
Never draft for organizational need, period. If you have a surplus of elite centers, for example, you can trade one to fill a hole elsewhere. Devils drafted Nemec since they "have too many centers," but will Nemec be better than Wright or Cooley? Couldn't they just trade Wright for a defenseman to fill that hole and then some?


That might have been true 10 years ago. But it's not as black and white now. We just saw 2 organizations draft for organizational need/want/prospect scarcity in 2022. Habs drafting Slaf and NJ drafting Nemec. Nemec was purely organizational need/scarcity (RHD studs are crazy hard to find) and Slaf was was organization want/scarcity for size/speed. Hockey prospect radio touched on this subject not too long ago, and they were explaining how certain positions or player styles (fast power forwards, stud RHD) are rarely if ever traded and if they are the price is massive and usually when they want to get paid (see Seth Jones).

So while you'd think you could trade an elite C for a need position, that only works if the other team is willing to part with what you want. It's easier to draft the elite RHD, than draft a C that might be marginally better and try and trade him.
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Sep. 5, 2022 at 3:57 p.m.
#7
Jimmy Stu
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Quoting: jonh514
I mean of course. But we're talking now. He's currently ranked like 10th overall. But I bet he climbs... If Habs draft 4 or later... they should consider organizational need over best player available.


Then as of now, no I wouldn't. The forward group in this class is wildly skilled, particularly centers. I'd say ideally Suzuki is the 2 C with a more offensively skilled 2c. Or if Suzuki steps up his offensive game then you have a backstrom/kuznetsov scenario. 1a/1b.

And you're right he probably will climb just because he is a game controlling RHD. How much depends on the next 5 months
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Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:00 p.m.
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Quoting: CMac66
That might have been true 10 years ago. But it's not as black and white now. We just saw 2 organizations draft for organizational need/want/prospect scarcity in 2022. Habs drafting Slaf and NJ drafting Nemec. Nemec was purely organizational need/scarcity (RHD studs are crazy hard to find) and Slaf was was organization want/scarcity for size/speed. Hockey prospect radio touched on this subject not too long ago, and they were explaining how certain positions or player styles (fast power forwards, stud RHD) are rarely if ever traded and if they are the price is massive and usually when they want to get paid (see Seth Jones).

So while you'd think you could trade an elite C for a need position, that only works if the other team is willing to part with what you want. It's easier to draft the elite RHD, than draft a C that might be marginally better and try and trade him.


Basically the only way most teams are trading their top RHD prospect is for a top 3 pick or an established PPG player aged 27 and younger...
Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:06 p.m.
#9
Jimmy Stu
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Quoting: jonh514
Basically the only way most teams are trading their top RHD prospect is for a top 3 pick or an established PPG player aged 27 and younger...


Yeah or a wild package (the seth Jones trade is bananas a D they got a top rated RHD prospect in the trade haha)

I forgot to say, if I was a Habs fan, I would love a top 5 pick this year and use it on a centre no question. With how good the prospects are, this is a franchise changing draft (or so it seems). If fantilli and Bedard are gone, Habs could do Dvorsky, Yager like you said, but also Wood (6'3 C), Callum Ritchie (6'2 C), Leo Carlson (6'3 C/W) all with elite offensive potential. I'd be pumped to get any of these guys
Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:12 p.m.
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Quoting: CMac66
Yeah or a wild package (the seth Jones trade is bananas a D they got a top rated RHD prospect in the trade haha)

I forgot to say, if I was a Habs fan, I would love a top 5 pick this year and use it on a centre no question. With how good the prospects are, this is a franchise changing draft (or so it seems). If fantilli and Bedard are gone, Habs could do Dvorsky, Yager like you said, but also Wood (6'3 C), Callum Ritchie (6'2 C), Leo Carlson (6'3 C/W) all with elite offensive potential. I'd be pumped to get any of these guys


I appreciate your perspective. Dvorsky did not look great at the WJC without Nemec/Slafkovsky/Mesar. I wonder if he doesn't drop.

Don't know a ton about the others. But the Habs have a lot of skilled Centers coming up and I was surprised how hard it is to trade Skill for Skill, especially with Center to trade.
Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:13 p.m.
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There also Lukas Dragicevic who could be a target with the second first round pick. Great skater, move the puck well, good shot, got size would surprise me at all if he would raise is stock right in the top 10.
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Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:15 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: Joblow
There also Lukas Dragicevic who could be a target with the second first round pick. Great skater, move the puck well, good shot, got size would surprise me at all if he would raise is stock right in the top 10.


Interesting. Hoping to see the Habs draft 3 RH defensemen and 2 goalies this year.
Sep. 5, 2022 at 4:26 p.m.
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Quoting: jonh514
Interesting. Hoping to see the Habs draft 3 RH defensemen and 2 goalies this year.


Goalie are not in such bad shape, Primeau is still a valuable goalie prospect he just need to play a lot of game in laval this year. Dichow is progressing in the right direction and Dobes could be a real steal a 134th. He was the best goalie in the NCAA last season in is rookie season and he wasn’t playing on a top team. Rhd are in my opinion their biggest weakness since Mailloux development has stagnate the past couple season. We only have one real top prospect at that position. Kostenko shown some flashes last year but he is clearly not close to have a impact in the NHL.
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Sep. 5, 2022 at 7:12 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: Joblow
Goalie are not in such bad shape, Primeau is still a valuable goalie prospect he just need to play a lot of game in laval this year. Dichow is progressing in the right direction and Dobes could be a real steal a 134th. He was the best goalie in the NCAA last season in is rookie season and he wasn’t playing on a top team. Rhd are in my opinion their biggest weakness since Mailloux development has stagnate the past couple season. We only have one real top prospect at that position. Kostenko shown some flashes last year but he is clearly not close to have a impact in the NHL.


Dichow seems like maybe the highest upside. Still has a lot of work to do to make the NHL. Maybe 3 years away.
Sep. 6, 2022 at 8:37 a.m.
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Way too early to tell who would even be the possible targets, draft stock can change a lot, I would like Allen but so far, there’s pretty much only forwards as a “consensus” top 10, from early rankings, there isn’t really a top 10 D, Cam Allen’s there but his average ranking is right around 10, if we’re picking top 5 and going off rankings right now, it’s a forward who we’d take
 
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