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Bear to Vancouver

Created by: Caniac2000
Team: 2022-23 Carolina Hurricanes
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 20, 2022
Published: Sep. 21, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Trade might favor Carolina a little, but it's a lot closer in value than the typical Dickinson and a 5th BS
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$750,000
1$750,000
Trades
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
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Logo of the PHI
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Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CHI
Logo of the CAR
2024
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
Logo of the CAR
2025
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Logo of the CAR
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$81,433,584$112,500$1,300,000$1,066,416
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$7,750,000$7,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 7
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$8,460,250$8,460,250
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,400,000$5,400,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,820,000$4,820,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$3,000,000$3,000,000
RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,500,000$1,500,000 (Performance Bonus$500,000$500K)
C, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$6,000,000$6,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Vancouver Canucks
$891,667$891,667 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$2,000,000$2,000,000
RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$925,000$925,000
C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,500,000$1,500,000
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,300,000$5,300,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,280,000$5,280,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,500,000$4,500,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$5,250,000$5,250,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,025,000$4,025,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$2,000,000$2,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$762,500$762,500
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$750,000$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$4,050,000$4,050,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$1,800,000$1,800,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Carolina Hurricanes
$762,500$762,500
RD
UFA - 2

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Sep. 21, 2022 at 7:47 a.m.
#1
PDG over PDO
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Canucks pass, no reason to sell low on Hoglander
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 7:50 a.m.
#2
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: theleano1
Canucks pass


Ethan Bear is a solid third pair guy, but I can’t believe anyone would propose trading him for Hogslander. Hogslander is worth way more just based on his age and contract status alone.

I hate to be the one to have to say this, but just cause Nils Lundkvist got a first doesn’t mean your favorite team’s third pair d men all of a sudden have crazy high value. Lundkvist basically got traded for what Romanov did. There is a clear pattern there. Bear was a late round pick from 2015 and nobody should forget that.
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 7:58 a.m.
#3
Owly
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Quoting: Isles5513
Ethan Bear is a solid third pair guy, but I can’t believe anyone would propose trading him for Hogslander. Hogslander is worth way more just based on his age and contract status alone.

I hate to be the one to have to say this, but just cause Nils Lundkvist got a first doesn’t mean your favorite team’s third pair d men all of a sudden have crazy high value. Lundkvist basically got traded for what Romanov did. There is a clear pattern there. Bear was a late round pick from 2015 and nobody should forget that.


Cane fans think Pesce is worth point a game stars, is it at all a stretch to think they will also heavily overvalue 3rd pair defenceman?
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:04 a.m.
#4
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Cane fans think Pesce is worth point a game stars, is it at all a stretch to think they will also heavily overvalue 3rd pair defenceman?


Bear is overvalued by Canes fans since the Lundkvist deal. That being said Pesce is a very good player and he probably is worth a “PPG All-Star” like William Nylander. It’s hard to quantify defenseman’s value based on points tbh, but it’s easier to win playoff games with great defenseman than with great wings.

Case and point is the Isles who made back to back ECF’s with a group of guys that included Leo Komarov, and the Leafs who haven’t advanced at all in the past five years even tho they have Mathews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:11 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: Isles5513
Bear is overvalued by Canes fans since the Lundkvist deal. That being said Pesce is a very good player and he probably is worth a “PPG All-Star” like William Nylander. It’s hard to quantify defenseman’s value based on points tbh, but it’s easier to win playoff games with great defenseman than with great wings.

Case and point is the Isles who made back to back ECF’s with a group of guys that included Leo Komarov, and the Leafs who haven’t advanced at all in the past five years even tho they have Mathews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander.


Hoglander had 16 points last year. Bear outproduced him and Bear played 60% of the year on a fractured ankle and suffered with long-term COVID. Not to mention, Bear plays a far more valuable position. Hoglander started his career well, but right now his value is low. This is a buy low attempt. You're valuing Hoglander like he's a solidified top 6 winger. His career high is 27 points. Bear had 20 in 58 games playing on a fractured ankle with long term covid. I don't think this is as far a stretch as you're making it out to be
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:12 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Cane fans think Pesce is worth point a game stars, is it at all a stretch to think they will also heavily overvalue 3rd pair defenceman?


Pesce is analytically the best defensive defenseman in the sport bar none. Just because you don't know how good he is doesn't make everyone else wrong.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:13 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: theleano1
Canucks pass, no reason to sell low on Hoglander


That's fair, but you admit that this isn't far in value given the diminished value of Hoglander at this minute?
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:13 a.m.
#8
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Hoglander had 16 points last year. Bear outproduced him and Bear played 60% of the year on a fractured ankle and suffered with long-term COVID. Not to mention, Bear plays a far more valuable position. Hoglander started his career well, but right now his value is low. This is a buy low attempt. You're valuing Hoglander like he's a solidified top 6 winger. His career high is 27 points. Bear had 20 in 58 games playing on a fractured ankle with long term covid. I don't think this is as far a stretch as you're making it out to be


Again. Hogslander is 21 and coming off a sophomore slump. Bear is third pair d man in his mid twenties.
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:13 a.m.
#9
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Pesce is analytically the best defensive defenseman in the sport bar none. Just because you don't know how good he is doesn't make everyone else wrong.


I’m surprised he grades out better than my lord and savior Adam Pelech.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:14 a.m.
#10
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Bear's value is pretty low right now. Not worth Hoglander imo
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:16 a.m.
#11
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Canucks should just offer a 3rd and be done with it.

Don’t see Bear returning a promising prospect, but you never know. At least there hasn’t yet been the ridiculous counter offers where Pearson or Dickinson as cap dumps are proposed for Bear.
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:23 a.m.
#12
PDG over PDO
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Quoting: Caniac2000
That's fair, but you admit that this isn't far in value given the diminished value of Hoglander at this minute?


I'd have to disagree with Bears contract and age, Hoglander is still on his ECL and a had pretty good rookie year and a bit of sophomore slump, think most teams would rather take the gamble with Hoglander
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:24 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Isles5513
Again. Hogslander is 21 and coming off a sophomore slump. Bear is third pair d man in his mid twenties.


Except Bear (when he was fully healthy at the start of the year) was playing on Carolina's top pairing. He only fell down the pecking order after his covid stint. So saying "third pairing defenseman in his mid twenties" isn't entirely true. Combine that with the fact that Bear just straight up outproduced Hoglander last year in fewer games, you have to see the value is very close. Bear plays a more valuable position and a position of need for the Canucks too
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:25 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Isles5513
I’m surprised he grades out better than my lord and savior Adam Pelech.


Pelech is a stud, Pesce is better.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:25 a.m.
#15
1GarthSnowFan
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Edited Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:54 a.m.
Quoting: Caniac2000
Except Bear (when he was fully healthy at the start of the year) was playing on Carolina's top pairing. He only fell down the pecking order after his covid stint. So saying "third pairing defenseman in his mid twenties" isn't entirely true. Combine that with the fact that Bear just straight up outproduced Hoglander last year in fewer games, you have to see the value is very close. Bear plays a more valuable position and a position of need for the Canucks too


He played top pair yes. He’s not a top pair caliber d man tho, but he played with Slavin to balance the pairs.
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:26 a.m.
#16
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Pelech is a stud, Pesce is better.


Respectfully disagree on that one, but analytically speaking I buy that. I feel like your numbers r gonna be way better on Carolina than in NY lol.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:27 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: theleano1
I'd have to disagree with Bears contract and age, Hoglander is still on his ECL and a had pretty good rookie year and a bit of sophomore slump, think most teams would rather take the gamble with Hoglander


Opting for Hoglander is one thing, but given that Bear plays a FAR more valuable position and it's an obvious position of need for the Canucks, the value is there. As I said in the description, Hoglander is probably a little more valuable than Bear, but given how close it is, you have to consider it. Hoglander had 27 points in his rookie year. Bear outproduced him this year on a fractured ankle. I'm not saying anything bad about Hoglander, but his struggles this year hurt his value.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:28 a.m.
#18
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Quoting: Isles5513
Respectfully disagree on that one, but analytically speaking I buy that. I feel like your numbers r gonna be way better on Carolina than in NY lol.


Pesce has always graded out better. Pesce is just straight up a little better across the board than Pelech. Nothing against Pelech, but Pesce is a beast
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:30 a.m.
#19
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Quoting: Isles5513
He played top beat yes. He’s not a top pair caliber d man tho, but he played with Slavin to balance the pairs.


Just because he plays next to Slavin doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be on the top pairing. He played with Slavin because he earned that spot. Even if we ignore the Skjei - Pesce pairing and say Slavin was on the 2nd pair, he's a capable top 4 D man, and that's worth something. He's not an ideal top 4 D man, but he's a capable top 4 D man
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:30 a.m.
#20
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Pesce has always graded out better. Pesce is just straight up a little better across the board than Pelech. Nothing against Pelech, but Pesce is a beast


I would assume Slavin is grading out better too. Not sure either guy actually is better, but either way it’s not worth arguing about.
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:30 a.m.
#21
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Just because he plays next to Slavin doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be on the top pairing. He played with Slavin because he earned that spot. Even if we ignore the Skjei - Pesce pairing and say Slavin was on the 2nd pair, he's a capable top 4 D man, and that's worth something. He's not an ideal top 4 D man, but he's a capable top 4 D man


He’s not worth Hogslander
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:33 a.m.
#22
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Quoting: Isles5513
He’s not worth Hogslander


A guy that didn't even put up 20 points this last year isn't worth a top 6 RD? Take the names out of it. Vancouver is giving up a young 3rd line winger on his ELC. Carolina are giving up a slightler older but not old top 6 RD. The RD outproduced the winger while playing on a fractured ankle and dealing with long term covid. How is the young winger ever worth more than the D man here? D is the more valuable position, especially RD. Production favors the D man. You can argue cap, but it's a net change of 1.3 mil, not backbreaking amounts.

Agree to disagree I guess
Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:36 a.m.
#23
PDG over PDO
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Opting for Hoglander is one thing, but given that Bear plays a FAR more valuable position and it's an obvious position of need for the Canucks, the value is there. As I said in the description, Hoglander is probably a little more valuable than Bear, but given how close it is, you have to consider it. Hoglander had 27 points in his rookie year. Bear outproduced him this year on a fractured ankle. I'm not saying anything bad about Hoglander, but his struggles this year hurt his value.


27 points in 56 games, Hoglanders contract makes up the value with bears position, Hoglander also had an injury this year with an absurdly low shooting % for a forward, Bear is what he is at the point of his career which is a 3rd paring guy, there is still a good chance Hoglander returns to form and has top 6 potential
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:37 a.m.
#24
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: Caniac2000
A guy that didn't even put up 20 points this last year isn't worth a top 6 RD? Take the names out of it. Vancouver is giving up a young 3rd line winger on his ELC. Carolina are giving up a slightler older but not old top 6 RD. The RD outproduced the winger while playing on a fractured ankle and dealing with long term covid. How is the young winger ever worth more than the D man here? D is the more valuable position, especially RD. Production favors the D man. You can argue cap, but it's a net change of 1.3 mil, not backbreaking amounts.

Agree to disagree I guess


It’s about the fact he was better as a rookie, and the fact he is on his ELC. That’s why it’s a non starter imo. By that logic you could argue trading Dermott for Wally… or at least that’s how I c it. It doesn’t make sense for me
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Sep. 21, 2022 at 8:43 a.m.
#25
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I'd offer a 3rd and nothing more. You aren't getting Hoglander.
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