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Chuck and Ken

Created by: MTLaveragefan
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 22, 2022
Published: Sep. 22, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
i expect a lot of hate <3
Trades
1.
MTL
  1. Ellis, Ryan
  2. 2023 1st round pick (PHI)
PHI
  1. Dvorak, Christian
  2. Kidney, Riley
  3. 2025 1st round pick (CGY)
2.
EDM
  1. Hoffman, Mike
  2. 2024 2nd round pick (COL)
Buyouts
Buried
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the FLA
Logo of the PHI
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2024
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the EDM
2025
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$70,877,499$1,132,500$5,490,000$11,622,501
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,875,000$7,875,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
RW, LW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,362,500$3,362,500
C, RW
RFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,375,000$6,375,000
C, LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,700,000$1,700,000
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,875,000$4,875,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$420,000$420K)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Edmonton Oilers
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$507,500$508K)
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$762,500$762,500
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
RD
RFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Philadelphia Flyers
$6,250,000$6,250,000
RD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2

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Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:25 p.m.
#1
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Ken: take out Barrie and Hoffman and you've got a deal.
Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:27 p.m.
#2
Sennecke is a gem
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No ways Philly does that. That pick is gonna be high AF
Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:50 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: CD282
Ken: take out Barrie and Hoffman and you've got a deal.


lol a 2nd for WF ahahaha
Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:51 p.m.
#4
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Wasn't it basically confirmed that Ellis isn't playing this season? and potentially his career is over?

I'd be fine with Dvorak and the whatever that Calgary pick turns out to be for the Philly 1st.

But philly likely needs that 1st with Coots and Ellis basically out for the season, and Risto ishting the bed in his own zone again this year.
Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:55 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
Wasn't it basically confirmed that Ellis isn't playing this season? and potentially his career is over?

I'd be fine with Dvorak and the whatever that Calgary pick turns out to be for the Philly 1st.

But philly likely needs that 1st with Coots and Ellis basically out for the season, and Risto ishting the bed in his own zone again this year.


well Dvorak does help plug a hole at C - He is decent (not as good as Couts obviously) - could an extra sweetener help? its mostly about speeding up MTLs rebuild.

We would be taking a gamble on Ellis. Worst case he goes on LTIR.
Sep. 22, 2022 at 2:55 p.m.
#6
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That Philly trade is interesting if they really believe they can go somewhere in the Metro this year but I don't think any rational GM would say they are going to. That being said, this GM hasn't been all that rational so who knows
Sep. 22, 2022 at 3:03 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: MTLaveragefan
well Dvorak does help plug a hole at C - He is decent (not as good as Couts obviously) - could an extra sweetener help? its mostly about speeding up MTLs rebuild.

We would be taking a gamble on Ellis. Worst case he goes on LTIR.


Given Philly is about to tank, I can only see them offering the 2023 1st if it was top-10 protected.

Which at that point, doesn't speed up the rebuild, and a 2024 pick with Coots, Dvorak, Hayes, and hopefully Fletcher fired, would not be that great of a pick.

Montreal needs a RHD, so, Dvorak + Kidney for Deangelo?...

If Philly was smart, they would take the Coots and Ellis situation as an opportunity to blow it up and rebuild, but Fletcher is a moron, so that won't happen.
Sep. 22, 2022 at 3:06 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
That Philly trade is interesting if they really believe they can go somewhere in the Metro this year but I don't think any rational GM would say they are going to. That being said, this GM hasn't been all that rational so who knows


Quoting: KMMHL2012
Given Philly is about to tank, I can only see them offering the 2023 1st if it was top-10 protected.

Which at that point, doesn't speed up the rebuild, and a 2024 pick with Coots, Dvorak, Hayes, and hopefully Fletcher fired, would not be that great of a pick.

Montreal needs a RHD, so, Dvorak + Kidney for Deangelo?...

If Philly was smart, they would take the Coots and Ellis situation as an opportunity to blow it up and rebuild, but Fletcher is a moron, so that won't happen.


Quoting: KMMHL2012
Given Philly is about to tank, I can only see them offering the 2023 1st if it was top-10 protected.

Which at that point, doesn't speed up the rebuild, and a 2024 pick with Coots, Dvorak, Hayes, and hopefully Fletcher fired, would not be that great of a pick.

Montreal needs a RHD, so, Dvorak + Kidney for Deangelo?...

If Philly was smart, they would take the Coots and Ellis situation as an opportunity to blow it up and rebuild, but Fletcher is a moron, so that won't happen.


I am counting on the fact that we are talking about Fletcher here
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Sep. 22, 2022 at 3:07 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: MTLaveragefan
lol a 2nd for WF ahahaha


Foegele > Hoffman. No idea why you think Edmonton would want Hoffman.
Sep. 22, 2022 at 3:24 p.m.
#10
Go Habs Go
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Ellis is done like Carey Price. Keep him for your own Cap relief on LTIR

Flyers; 1st for Dvorak & CGY 1st plus some help on the Blue Line with Cory Sheuneman (Not a Top 4 D but plays a solid game)
Sep. 22, 2022 at 4:20 p.m.
#11
Simpleton
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That Edmonton trade... Yeesh. Maybe, if training camp performances justify it, trading Foegele for late 2nd or a 3rd round draft pick makes sense. But:

Hoffman = left-handed, one-dimensional forward. Finished last season with 35 pts and -24. Will be 5-years past his prime come November 24, and is quite obviously in decline.

Barrie = offensive RHD, with near-elite power play driving ability. Finished last season at 41 pts and +3. Celebrated his 31st birthday on July 26, and is currently about 2 years past the age considered prime for NHL defensemen. Despite reduced playing time, his production has remained consistent with his career averages. That suggests he is not yet in decline.

The Oilers have a plethora of LH forwards, their top 6 forwards are very strong and the team has been among the NHL's most offensively productive. Hoffman doesn't kill penalties or take face-offs, and he would not be part of the 1PP. He offers Edmonton nothing they don't already have, and nothing that they might still need. Tyson Barrie happens to be a RHD, a highly valued commodity in today's NHL. Pair him with a defensively sound partner and his team will own shot shares and outscore the opposition while he is on the ice. Don't believe me, well then take a look at the numbers Barrie put up while paired with Kulak in a waning days of last season and through Edmonton's playoff run.

Adding the 2024 58-64 overall draft pick is probably a bit rich for Warren Foegele, but no so rich that it makes up the difference between Mike Hoffman and Tyson Barrie. No, I see no logic to support Hoffman for Barrie.
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Sep. 22, 2022 at 4:42 p.m.
#12
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Hell no flyers age going to give up a 1st
Sep. 22, 2022 at 8:00 p.m.
#13
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Edited Sep. 22, 2022 at 8:27 p.m.
Quoting: uphere
That Edmonton trade... Yeesh. Maybe, if training camp performances justify it, trading Foegele for late 2nd or a 3rd round draft pick makes sense. But:

Hoffman = left-handed, one-dimensional forward. Finished last season with 35 pts and -24. Will be 5-years past his prime come November 24, and is quite obviously in decline.

Barrie = offensive RHD, with near-elite power play driving ability. Finished last season at 41 pts and +3. Celebrated his 31st birthday on July 26, and is currently about 2 years past the age considered prime for NHL defensemen. Despite reduced playing time, his production has remained consistent with his career averages. That suggests he is not yet in decline.

The Oilers have a plethora of LH forwards, their top 6 forwards are very strong and the team has been among the NHL's most offensively productive. Hoffman doesn't kill penalties or take face-offs, and he would not be part of the 1PP. He offers Edmonton nothing they don't already have, and nothing that they might still need. Tyson Barrie happens to be a RHD, a highly valued commodity in today's NHL. Pair him with a defensively sound partner and his team will own shot shares and outscore the opposition while he is on the ice. Don't believe me, well then take a look at the numbers Barrie put up while paired with Kulak in a waning days of last season and through Edmonton's playoff run.

Adding the 2024 58-64 overall draft pick is probably a bit rich for Warren Foegele, but no so rich that it makes up the difference between Mike Hoffman and Tyson Barrie. No, I see no logic to support Hoffman for Barrie.


Because Barrie is an aging commodity, and paying that much for a one dimensional offensively minded D, when Bouchard and Nurse are most likely better, doesn't make much sense.

The overpay for Foegele and the trade off of Hoffman for Barrie clears cap room, which Edmonton desperately needs more than Barrie

You are right though, Hoffman is not what the Oilers need, but what they do need is to ship out Barrie to desperately for cap room, as Bouchard is coming due for a contract, and paying a non-defensively minded 3rd pairing RD $4.5M next season is going to be rough on top of Bouchard getting a hefty pay raise.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:14 a.m.
#14
Simpleton
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
Because Barrie is an aging commodity, and paying that much for a one dimensional offensively minded D, when Bouchard and Nurse are most likely better, doesn't make much sense.

The overpay for Foegele and the trade off of Hoffman for Barrie clears cap room, which Edmonton desperately needs more than Barrie

You are right though, Hoffman is not what the Oilers need, but what they do need is to ship out Barrie to desperately for cap room, as Bouchard is coming due for a contract, and paying a non-defensively minded 3rd pairing RD $4.5M next season is going to be rough on top of Bouchard getting a hefty pay raise.


The Anaheim Ducks are paying John Klingberg $7M to do what Tyson Barrie does in Edmonton for $4.5M. Barrie's contract represents pretty good value. The cap situation in Edmonton is not ideal, but it's not desperate either. It will be pretty tough to manage as things are right now, but there will be some relief when contracts are due to Bouchard, McLeod et al. The salary cap will go up a bit, and room will come in the form of reduced dead cap space, the end of Milan Lucic's current contract, and the expiration of contracts for a number of depth players. Players like Warren Foegele and Tyson Barrie will have one season left on their contracts, making them easier to move as well.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:05 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: uphere
The Anaheim Ducks are paying John Klingberg $7M to do what Tyson Barrie does in Edmonton for $4.5M. Barrie's contract represents pretty good value. The cap situation in Edmonton is not ideal, but it's not desperate either. It will be pretty tough to manage as things are right now, but there will be some relief when contracts are due to Bouchard, McLeod et al. The salary cap will go up a bit, and room will come in the form of reduced dead cap space, the end of Milan Lucic's current contract, and the expiration of contracts for a number of depth players. Players like Warren Foegele and Tyson Barrie will have one season left on their contracts, making them easier to move as well.


The Anaheim ducks are also paying Shattenkirk $3.9M to do what Barrie does. Colorado is paying Toews $4.1M to do significantly more than Barrie does. Arizona is paying Chychrun $4.6M to do significantly more as well.

We can all cherry pick contracts to make a point.

I agree the cap will go up, but Mcleod and especially Bouchards salary will outgrow the cap in the immediate future.

Barrie disappears in the playoffs, he's not a guy you can win with, just like Mike Green, after being swept by Colorado, they need defensive depth to make the difference and be a legit contender, not another guy who contributes half his assists as secondary assists, or half his points come on the PP.

To take the next step, Edmonton needs a shutdown guy who can contribute 20 points more than they need Barrie throwing up 20 secondary assists a season.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:08 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
Barrie disappears in the playoffs, he's not a guy you can win with, just like Mike Green, after being swept by Colorado, they need defensive depth to make the difference and be a legit contender, not another guy who contributes half his assists as secondary assists, or half his points come on the PP.

LOL, really? Barrie had the best GF% of all defensemen on the team in the playoffs last season. He certainly didn't disappear!
Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:43 p.m.
#17
Simpleton
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
The Anaheim ducks are also paying Shattenkirk $3.9M to do what Barrie does. Colorado is paying Toews $4.1M to do significantly more than Barrie does. Arizona is paying Chychrun $4.6M to do significantly more as well.

We can all cherry pick contracts to make a point.

I agree the cap will go up, but Mcleod and especially Bouchards salary will outgrow the cap in the immediate future.

Barrie disappears in the playoffs, he's not a guy you can win with, just like Mike Green, after being swept by Colorado, they need defensive depth to make the difference and be a legit contender, not another guy who contributes half his assists as secondary assists, or half his points come on the PP.

To take the next step, Edmonton needs a shutdown guy who can contribute 20 points more than they need Barrie throwing up 20 secondary assists a season.


Its been six years since Shattenkirk produced offense like Barrie has. Toews is far from the top offensive d-man in Colorado, Barrie was the top guy in Edmonton when he signed his contract, and his production was right there with Bouchard's last season. Chychrun had one NHL season in which he scored anywhere near the level that Barrie has scored at through his career.

Kilingberg signed his contract this past summer, his career numbers closely resemble Barrie's, and they have played the same roles through most of their respective careers. If you're going to cherry pick, do a better job of it.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:11 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: uphere
Its been six years since Shattenkirk produced offense like Barrie has. Toews is far from the top offensive d-man in Colorado, Barrie was the top guy in Edmonton when he signed his contract, and his production was right there with Bouchard's last season. Chychrun had one NHL season in which he scored anywhere near the level that Barrie has scored at through his career.

Kilingberg signed his contract this past summer, his career numbers closely resemble Barrie's, and they have played the same roles through most of their respective careers. If you're going to cherry pick, do a better job of it.


Shattenkirk, 35 in 82 on a bottom feeder, and Barrie 41 in 73 games on Edmonton, cherry picking numbers again with no context, typical Edmonton fan.

Did I ever say Toews was the top offensive D-man?,.... nope, just comparing cap hits to what is brought on the ice, which is what you attempted to do with Klingberg to rationalize Barries worth. Are you somehow implying Barrie is worth $7M when comparing him to Klingberg?..... or wait... could it be Klingberg was drastically overpaid and not worth it?.... oh my, the horror!

and, you literally just shat on Chychrun because he doesn't score as much as Barrie? implying a defenseman who puts up more points is somehow worth more? Then back to Shattenkirk, 47 points in 85 playoff games... you know, when it actually matters, Barrie.... oh Barrie, 20 in 46, and only 6 in 20 games with Edmonton, playing with Drai and McD.... Barrie is a joke, defending him based on points is akin to leafs fans thinking they're winning the cup with $35M tied up in 3 players.

No wonder everyone laughs at Edmonton's fan base, just as delusional as the leafs ones. lol
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:12 p.m.
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zzz
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:34 p.m.
#20
Simpleton
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
Shattenkirk, 35 in 82 on a bottom feeder, and Barrie 41 in 73 games on Edmonton, cherry picking numbers again with no context, typical Edmonton fan.

Did I ever say Toews was the top offensive D-man?,.... nope, just comparing cap hits to what is brought on the ice, which is what you attempted to do with Klingberg to rationalize Barries worth. Are you somehow implying Barrie is worth $7M when comparing him to Klingberg?..... or wait... could it be Klingberg was drastically overpaid and not worth it?.... oh my, the horror!

and, you literally just shat on Chychrun because he doesn't score as much as Barrie? implying a defenseman who puts up more points is somehow worth more? Then back to Shattenkirk, 47 points in 85 playoff games... you know, when it actually matters, Barrie.... oh Barrie, 20 in 46, and only 6 in 20 games with Edmonton, playing with Drai and McD.... Barrie is a joke, defending him based on points is akin to leafs fans thinking they're winning the cup with $35M tied up in 3 players.

No wonder everyone laughs at Edmonton's fan base, just as delusional as the leafs ones. lol


At this point, it appears there is nothing to be gained by pointing out the holes in your latest statement; you have it in your mind that you are correct and you're obviously unwilling to consider you may not be.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:38 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: uphere
At this point, it appears there is nothing to be gained by pointing out the holes in your latest statement; you have it in your mind that you are correct and you're obviously unwilling to consider you may not be.


I was thinking the same thing about you, but I at least made the effort. wink
Sep. 23, 2022 at 2:31 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: uphere
At this point, it appears there is nothing to be gained by pointing out the holes in your latest statement; you have it in your mind that you are correct and you're obviously unwilling to consider you may not be.


Quoting: KMMHL2012
I was thinking the same thing about you, but I at least made the effort. wink


Now now boys... lets keep it civil!
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 3:39 p.m.
#23
Simpleton
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Quoting: KMMHL2012
I was thinking the same thing about you, but I at least made the effort. wink


And a poor effort it was. TTYL.
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