Forums/Armchair-GM

A couple quick deals

Created by: KM87
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 22, 2022
Published: Sep. 22, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Aston-Reese, Zach1$750,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Grans, Helge
  2. Spence, Jordan
LAK
  1. Sandin, Rasmus [RFA Rights]
2.
TOR
    PHI
    1. Simmonds, Wayne
    3.
    TOR
    1. Mcleod, Michael
    NJD
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2023
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    2024
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the OTT
    2025
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    Logo of the TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    21$82,500,000$82,184,783$212,500$82,500$315,217
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    Logo of the TOR
    Bunting, Michael
    $950,000
    LW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $796,667
    LW
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the TOR
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Järnkrok, Calle
    $2,100,000
    C, LW, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the TOR
    Kämpf, David
    $1,500,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Gaudette, Adam
    $750,000
    C, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Aston-Reese, Zach
    $750,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the NJD
    Mcleod, Michael
    $975,000
    C
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas
    $1,000,000
    RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the TOR
    Rielly, Morgan
    $7,500,000
    LD
    NMC
    UFA - 8
    Logo of the TOR
    Holl, Justin
    $2,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Murray, Matt
    $4,687,500
    G
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    LD/RD
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Samsonov, Ilya
    $1,800,000
    G
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the TOR
    Giordano, Mark
    $800,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the LAK
    Spence, Jordan
    $820,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the TOR
    Clifford, Kyle
    $762,500
    LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $1,400,000
    RD
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the TOR
    Engvall, Pierre
    $2,250,000
    LW, RW, C
    UFA - 1

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    Sep. 22 at 4:06 p.m.
    #1
    Back to the 90s
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    no just no
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    Sep. 22 at 4:07 p.m.
    #2
    Back to the 90s
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    Quoting: BlackwoodForVezina
    no just no


    we don’t want kerfoot
    Sep. 22 at 4:10 p.m.
    #3
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    I assume you mean one or the other for Grans or Spence, not both.
    Sep. 22 at 4:18 p.m.
    #4
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    Blake doesn't consider that.
    majormoose007 and Artman91 liked this.
    Sep. 22 at 4:18 p.m.
    #5
    we miss leo k
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    -Why is LA giving up two strong RD prospects on their ELCs for an LD that they have to give a new contract to? Mayyyybe you can swing a deal for one or the other, but bad use of assets for the Kings here.

    -Simmonds has a 10-team NTC, I would think that most of the basement teams from last season are on it. Also, just waive Clifford and keep Simmonds as your extra forward instead.

    -Devils don't have the cap space to swap McLeod out for Kerfoot. And I'm not saying that Kerfoot has no value at this point, but e.v.e.r.y. team in the league knows that the Leafs need to shed cap. You're very unlikely to get back much more than a late-round pick or a lottery ticket prospect for him at this point.
    NJDevils1317, GiggywithGibby, majormoose007 and 3 others liked this.
    Sep. 22 at 4:22 p.m.
    #6
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    KM87
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    I assume you mean one or the other for Grans or Spence, not both.


    Sorry, I should've specified. Yes, one or the other. Preferably Spence. Likely another piece from LA as well to even out the deal.
    Sep. 22 at 4:23 p.m.
    #7
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    KM87
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    Quoting: Boltsradynasty
    Blake doesn't consider that.


    Sorry, should've specified. One of Spence or Grans. Not both.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    Sep. 22 at 4:24 p.m.
    #8
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    Quoting: KM87
    Sorry, I should've specified. Yes, one or the other. Preferably Spence. Likely another piece from LA as well to even out the deal.


    LA doesn't add in a Grans or Spence for Sandin swap. The "another piece" that Toronto gets is a signed defenseman on a six-figure contract instead of a contract holdout.
    Artman91 liked this.
    Sep. 22 at 4:40 p.m.
    #9
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    Has a flyers fan I’m going to say nope
    Sep. 22 at 4:49 p.m.
    #10
    LongtimeLeafsufferer
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    Devils certainly aren't giving up years of control of McLeod for one year of Kerfoot. No need for the Kings to do that deal.
    Sep. 22 at 5:17 p.m.
    #11
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    If we moved McLeod out, where would we play Kerfoot in this line-up? I suppose we'd just flip him.

    Palat -- Hughes -- Holtz
    Sharangovich -- Hischier -- Bratt
    Wood -- Haula -- Mercer
    Johnsson -- Boqvist -- Bastian
    Foote -- Zetterlund -- Tatar

    (the lines they were using at opening of camp)
    Sep. 22 at 5:40 p.m.
    #12
    Owly
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    I assume you mean one or the other for Grans or Spence, not both.


    Come on man, neither is as good right now or has the pedigree and upside that Sandin has.
    Sep. 22 at 5:42 p.m.
    #13
    Owly
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    Quoting: dannibalcorpse
    -Why is LA giving up two strong RD prospects on their ELCs for an LD that they have to give a new contract to? Mayyyybe you can swing a deal for one or the other, but bad use of assets for the Kings here.

    -Simmonds has a 10-team NTC, I would think that most of the basement teams from last season are on it. Also, just waive Clifford and keep Simmonds as your extra forward instead.

    -Devils don't have the cap space to swap McLeod out for Kerfoot. And I'm not saying that Kerfoot has no value at this point, but e.v.e.r.y. team in the league knows that the Leafs need to shed cap. You're very unlikely to get back much more than a late-round pick or a lottery ticket prospect for him at this point.


    Neither of those RD prospects are as good now or have as high a ceiling as Sandin. Why would TO give up a bluechip young player for lesser players? Sandin isn't getting traded and he will sign in TO. When and for how much? I don't know and not a lot.
    Sep. 22 at 5:43 p.m.
    #14
    Owly
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    Quoting: KM87
    Sorry, I should've specified. Yes, one or the other. Preferably Spence. Likely another piece from LA as well to even out the deal.


    A smallish RD with less upside than Niemela or a bigger RD with much less upside than Sandin, why would the Leafs do that? Sandin is going to be so important next year and beyond as our Left side ages out. What then?
    Sep. 22 at 5:45 p.m.
    #15
    Owly
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    LA doesn't add in a Grans or Spence for Sandin swap. The "another piece" that Toronto gets is a signed defenseman on a six-figure contract instead of a contract holdout.


    What motivation does TO have to make that? Downgrade the player by a sizeable amount so they can have an ELC RD that won't make the team? Seems extremely short sighted. Sandin has joined the long list of TO players who have zero value specifically because the team he plays for. He's the new Nylander. An exceptionally talented young player with major upside that Capfriendly people will say is at best a bottom pair defender because no leaf ever gets better.
    Sep. 22 at 5:46 p.m.
    #16
    Owly
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    If we moved McLeod out, where would we play Kerfoot in this line-up? I suppose we'd just flip him.

    Palat -- Hughes -- Holtz
    Sharangovich -- Hischier -- Bratt
    Wood -- Haula -- Mercer
    Johnsson -- Boqvist -- Bastian
    Foote -- Zetterlund -- Tatar

    (the lines they were using at opening of camp)


    Yup, Kerfoot is definitely not needed in New Jersey. I doubt he even gets traded.
    NHLfan10506 liked this.
    Sep. 22 at 5:53 p.m.
    #17
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    What motivation does TO have to make that? Downgrade the player by a sizeable amount so they can have an ELC RD that won't make the team? Seems extremely short sighted. Sandin has joined the long list of TO players who have zero value specifically because the team he plays for. He's the new Nylander. An exceptionally talented young player with major upside that Capfriendly people will say is at best a bottom pair defender because no leaf ever gets better.


    I didn't propose the trade. Kings are content to stand pat on defense.

    Sandin is still a #7/#8 defenseman on a team that is average defensively (at best). Not sure why any team would pay a premium for that.
    Sep. 22 at 6:04 p.m.
    #18
    Owly
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    I didn't propose the trade. Kings are content to stand pat on defense.

    Sandin is still a #7/#8 defenseman on a team that is average defensively (at best). Not sure why any team would pay a premium for that.


    Ah yup, you are one of those guys. TO could have the best defense in the league and you guys will still say they are average at best. "But look at the goals against!" How about we take a look at the 27th ranked goaltending they got last year. Even average goaltending and TO would have been a top 5-10 team defensively. Sandin is a special player, you don't win the World Juniors defenceman of the tournament and amount to nothing. Just look at the list of players to win that. Sandin has very high value, whether the Capfriendly mob wants to believe it or not.
    Sep. 22 at 6:22 p.m.
    #19
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    Ah yup, you are one of those guys. TO could have the best defense in the league and you guys will still say they are average at best. "But look at the goals against!" How about we take a look at the 27th ranked goaltending they got last year. Even average goaltending and TO would have been a top 5-10 team defensively. Sandin is a special player, you don't win the World Juniors defenceman of the tournament and amount to nothing. Just look at the list of players to win that. Sandin has very high value, whether the Capfriendly mob wants to believe it or not.


    Goaltending isn't played in a vacuum. Your "poor" goaltending is a result of your "poor" team defense. Toronto needs to learn that 18 skaters need to play defense every game, not just 6. Then maybe they'll stop hanging their goaltenders out to dry.
    Sep. 22 at 6:31 p.m.
    #20
    Owly
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    Goaltending isn't played in a vacuum. Your "poor" goaltending is a result of your "poor" team defense. Toronto needs to learn that 18 skaters need to play defense every game, not just 6. Then maybe they'll stop hanging their goaltenders out to dry.


    Nope, every leaf goalie was negative in goals saved above expected. That calculates the quality chances they get and they all allowed more than they should have. But that of course doesn't matter, because the mob says they have a bad defence so it must be true, reality he damned
    Sep. 22 at 6:40 p.m.
    #21
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    Nope, every leaf goalie was negative in goals saved above expected. That calculates the quality chances they get and they all allowed more than they should have. But that of course doesn't matter, because the mob says they have a bad defence so it must be true, reality he damned


    Their defensemen are fine. Their team defense is bad.

    The Leafs have gotten "poor goaltending" over the past decade from several goaltenders that have done well elsewhere, both before and after they played for the Leafs.
    Sep. 22 at 6:52 p.m.
    #22
    Owly
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    Quoting: tkecanuck341
    Their defensemen are fine. Their team defense is bad.

    The Leafs have gotten "poor goaltending" over the past decade from several goaltenders that have done well elsewhere, both before and after they played for the Leafs.


    Again not remotely correct. They had top 3 expected goal differential last season. They are a defensively sound team with a system that absolutely smothers teams when they play their game for a full 60 minutes. Like I said, you are one of those Capfriendly mob members who will say this no matter what. I bet Nylander is just a 60 point winger in your eyes as well and Matthews will never be a two way player.
    Sep. 22 at 6:59 p.m.
    #23
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    Again not remotely correct. They had top 3 expected goal differential last season. They are a defensively sound team with a system that absolutely smothers teams when they play their game for a full 60 minutes. Like I said, you are one of those Capfriendly mob members who will say this no matter what. I bet Nylander is just a 60 point winger in your eyes as well and Matthews will never be a two way player.


    I didn't say any of that.

    Toronto certainly has a lot of players on their team that do well offensively that probably wouldn't do as well in a defensively responsible system like LA or Nashville. That doesn't mean that Nylander isn't a quality winger.

    I think Matthews' defense has improved significantly over the past several years, but he's also no Bergeron or Kopitar when it comes to defense.

    Toronto has chosen to play an offense-first system that allows their players to score an insane amount of goals, but comes at the expense of team defense. As long as they play this way, their defense and goaltending will always be exposed and prone to huge swings in efficacy, regardless of the players on the team. I'm surprised Campbell was able to put up his insane numbers as long as he did.

    Sandin's lack of value has nothing to do with what team he plays for, but rather because he's a frequent healthy scratch (including during the playoffs) and not among Toronto's top 7 defensemen. He's equivalent in value to Toby Bjornfot.
    Sep. 23 at 9:11 a.m.
    #24
    we miss leo k
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    Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
    Neither of those RD prospects are as good now or have as high a ceiling as Sandin. Why would TO give up a bluechip young player for lesser players? Sandin isn't getting traded and he will sign in TO. When and for how much? I don't know and not a lot.


    Grans is maybe considered a half-step below Sandin in most prospect evaluators eyes - both are projected as pretty much a lock for a top-4 spot when they're fully developed, with Sandin profiling as a better offensive player and Grans being considered more of a 2-way player. Spence is -also- considered a top-4 potential RHD prospect by most evaluators, so you're basically saying LA sends the Leafs a pair of top 4 RHD prospects for a top 4 LHD.

    Sandin will most likely be a fine player, and has looked good so far, but I can't put him so far ahead of these other guys when he only has the equivalent of one full season under his belt, and when his own coach didn't seem to trust him in the playoffs. He's still just as much potential as Grans & Spence are at this point, until he forces his way into the top pair with his play. And that's why it's an overpay for LA, even before you get to the value that two guys on ELCs that are waiver exempt have to a team like the Leafs, or the positional value that RD has over LD. I know it's nearly impossible to get over your Leafs persecution complex, but sometimes Leafs fans *do* post unbalanced trades in their ACGMs, and it's not a vendetta against you when other posters point it out!
     
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