Nope, possibly two as of right now (Edvinsson, Soderblom). Could it be more (Kasper, Mazur, Cossa, Berggren)? Possibly. Could it be none of them? Possibly. Not a guarantee at all that any of them are, but that is why a team drafts them. I will very confidently say that the Wings have a top 2-3 prospect pool in the NHL.

This might be a bad deal for Toronto but it's not even a good deal for Detroit.

Nylander is a right shooting winger and we already have Raymond and have just signed Perron for two years. Nylander is a good player but he's not as good on the left side as he is on the right.

Nylander's current contract is about the same as Bert's next contract is expected to be. I'd rather extend Bert for 7 million this season than extending Nylander for 9 million next season.

The extra payment we're doing in this trade is high considering we may well be without Nylander in only a year. There are complaints about Bert being difficult to negotiate with, well Nylander went on strike for months before his current contract was signed.

Bert can be traded for a better return than one year of Nylander.

2 years of nylander is worth more than 1 year of bertuzzi

I respect the thought process you have with this, however it seems misguided. I will use your own logic to show why.

Our window opening: Yes, Boston is getting worse. Florida, Toronto, and Tampa are still the horses in the division. Depending on who you ask, these teams all slightly regressed if at all. Detroit improved, as did Ottawa. Buffalo is looking better and better as well. Very soon, this division could be the strongest 1 through 8 in the entire league. No guarantee that Detroit leapfrogs to the top.

Re-signing Willy: He will be 28 or 29 years old asking for a raise with term. Does Toronto want to sign him to an 8x8.5M extension? Why should Detroit? Just because they have the cap, doesn't mean they need to burn through it. Even with a raised salary cap, a 36 year old making that much money becomes an issue, see Muzzin as an example. Larkin, Bertuzzi, Vrana, goaltenders (not solidified but every team needs them), Seider, Raymond, everyone will need raises. Only 4 players on contract in a few years. A lot of flexibility, but can shrink with one major trade. Adding Willy into that mix complicates things rather than dealing with ELC contracts.

Knies: Sure, call him Detroit's Knies. Both are huge and have some offense. Sodes is 6'8 and has hands. Knows how to score. I like Knies a lot and think he is going to be a great forward for the Leafs. I don't think you have watched the Wings' training camp, but Elmer looks fantastic. He actually had reps with Larkin during multiple drills, and turned Seider inside out. In saying all that, would you trade Knies for Detroit's 3rd round pick? Detroit will have a better pick than Toronto, so the value is even better than Soderblom for a 3rd. I doubt Toronto takes that.

Back to the original post, this trade doesn't make sense. Bertuzzi would need to be retained, or an extension in place, or some other value heading to Toronto. Sebrango is projecting as a 5-7 D in the NHL, which is fine, but not the value needed to be added to acquire Nylander, even with retention. And to the original point at which I interjected, Soderblom/Edvinsson/Johansson/Berggren/etc. are untouchable unless it is for something most teams are uncomfortable paying (meaning the value of a prospect through Detroit's eyes). Just as I am sure Knies/Topi/Hiro are to Toronto.

I understand your logic & it makes perfect sense. & since you say Sebrango isn’t the value needed to acquire Nylander what would you suggest would be the value?, We’ve seen the untouchables that are non starters, what would you consider fair & willing to trade

yes leafs do this every day goodbye nylander hello tough guy bertuzzi welcome home to canada partner lets get winnign

I'll preface this by saying I personally wouldn't make this trade if I were SY (but I'm not an NHL GM so what the hell do I know), but in terms of value only.

Nylander 6.9M x 2 - 26yo 30G 80PTS

Bertuzzi 4.75M x 1 - 27yo 30G 62PTS

To make it fair, Detroit probably has to part ways with a prospect close to being untouchable that fits a need for Toronto, like an Eemil Viro (3-5 projected D) or Carter Mazur (Lil' Bert).

That probably starts the conversation. Then the back and forth starts about Nylander's raise, Bertuzzi's extension, retention for this season on Bert, saving cap space, division rival additional costs, prospect valuations, team needs, future outlook. That is where ACGM accounts go sideways because this part gets lost. SY could tell Dubas that Mazur is Bertuzzi 2.0. Dubas could tell SY that Mazur is unproven and even though he did very well at WJC, there aren't guarantees that he hits that ceiling.

Yzerman just can't do that. He constantly gives out too much money to depth old guys. He's going to do some good things but make it impossible to manage long term by handing out bad money to depth guys.b

Too bad Yzerman will wreck your cap by giving big money to secondary players.

Whatever you say lol. Didn't seem too bad in TB when he was calling the shots.

Except his replacement has been sending good players out the door for nothing because it's the only way to make the cap work.

I guess thats the cost of winning Stanley Cups.

Not really, Killorn, Johnson and others all got more than they should have.

Yes but that was before the market on young guys has gotten much more valuable, 6-8 mil is becoming the norm for guys with breakout years & Alot of guys in detroits system look like they can be 50-70 point guys with 25+ Goal Paces in the future & will be worth that money plus roster spots & influx of prospects from drafts till that real Compete point, which is where the issues come. I believe Stevie Y will do his best to keep everyone he can but there will be a few gems that seep threw those cracks & players that want bigger & better minutes cause there always is. As i’ve said it’s a great thing now, not later

Maybe they did get more than they should have, but the Bolts won 2, and almost a third. Most teams and their fanbases would enjoy that. Imagine if Toronto had these same cap issues and had to keep moving players and finding new replacements, but with two championships to warm them up at night.

Seems to me you are just upset because SY was a main factor in building TB, who does it better than Toronto, and now he is trying to replicate that in Detroit.

Desjardins should get the credit there not Yzerman. Had he remained in Tampa, I bet they would have been in such bad cap situations it would have been extremely hard to make it all work.

If A trade were to happen i could see it being
Willy & a 2024 3rd (TOR) for Bertuzzi,Mazur or Viro(Familiar with Niemela & was his D-Partner at the WJC)
Bertuzzi signs a 6-7 x5 extension in (TOR)
most likely by the time Willy is out Soderblom is solidified in the Top 6

For now it would be

Vrana-Larkin-Willy
Perron-Copp-Raymond

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot for now but Knies later-JT-Bertuzzi


What do you think?

With only 5 roster players currently on the team for 2024-25, money isn't the issue. Larkin will get his bump to 8+, Seider and Raymond also will get sizable raises. For the sake of argument I will even say Vrana and Bert get raises. That is 10 total players and Detroit not even using 50% of their budget. Seems much more manageable than 50% budget for 5 players.



Again, whatever you say. I didn't say Yzerman should get all the credit. I said he was a main contributor that led to 2 cups, and almost a third.

I am stating facts...he was the GM, helped build a 2 time championship team.
You are are voicing your opinions... "I bet if he stayed... these players got more than they should have." If I SAY that Bertuzzi should be valued at 6M. You may say too low, another person may say too high. Bottom line, if he signs for 8M, that is his value to that team. Hindsight is 20/20 and time will tell if he was valued too high or too low.

If it absolutely looks like Bertuzzi does not want to sign, or wants to sign for more than SY wants to pay him...
Detroit receives: Nylander and a 2024 3rd
Toronto receives: Bertuzzi and Viro

- Detroit gets a high end offensive player that I believe Larkin would work well with for two years. Possibly re-signed, or flipped 2023-24, depending on how Detroit looks at the time. The third offsets (division rival, helping cap space, Viro)
- Toronto gets a Bert built for the playoffs, and a different dynamic added to the top 6 (goal scorer, s*** disturber, 110% motor, play driver, Tavares' new bestie), a solid LD prospect, and some cap space.

VALUE wise I believe that to be fair, although I don't see the fit. I wouldn't make this trade, but again, not because it is unfair. I can see Toronto saying the same for issues about Bert (just as Wings fans have issues with Nylander). Viro also hurts losing before seeing what he truly is, but for the purpose of this trade, you give to get.

Personally, if he were to be traded (NOT SAYING I WANT THAT), I would like to see it for a young roster player, another solid prospect, and 2023 draft pick.

Come on now man, Sieder and Raymond are going to cost major major money long term. But the problem is going to be when you have several veterans with term and too much money.

The problem will be the wave after Raymond and Seider. The Kasper/Cossa/Buium/Bushy wave will be the one that puts Detroit in a cap conundrum, unless moves are made. Now if Wallinder/ Johansson/ Sodes/ Edvinsson/ Viro/ Mazur/ Berggren all over-perform, those problems occur sooner.

@TOR nice finally having a cordial discussion. Very respectful and I appreciate the back and forth!

Well hopefully it all works out, I am just not a fan of Yzerman, I think he gets credit for other guys work

Understandable, it is a rivalry. I think the problem is that most people say SY was the ONLY person with an impact. While he was key factor, he wasn't alone.

Thanks CoachCoach
See I know I’m a Leaf Fan But We aren’t all delusional, Nice having a chat with you