Oh, the Canes laugh so hard. Carolina have all the best parts of Horvat in Staal. They don't need him. Necas' gamebreaking speed is something they desperately crave. If you want Bear, that's fine, but it's gotta be for a pick. Not for an uninsured LTIR deal

Don't really want bear but it makes it an even cap deal. Weird I didn't know staal was a 30 goal scorer and 2nd line C.

Staal's a better play driver, a dominant faceoff guy, great locker room leader, and brings Stanley Cup-winning experience. He doesn't have the same shot, fine. But Staal is a more than fine 2C if worse comes to worst. And you are arguing Horvat is a 2C. Play him at 2C then. But he's a 3C on a non-playoff team? So why is he suddenly a 2C on an elite cup contender like the Canes? Stop it.

come on man.

He's a 3C because we have two 1C's on our roster. Canes need to upgrade their 2C position if they have true hopes of winning the cup IMO.

Ah, so you don't know the Canes roster or system. That's fine, but 2C isn't the issue. Goalscoring is. The answer to that isn't Horvat. The answer to that is someone like Kane, Senko, Pastrnak depending on who is available at the deadline. Horvat is Staal with a little more offense. He isn't enough of a difference-maker to give up Necas' game-breaking speed.

I'm aware of the canes roster thanks. My opinion is they need a true 2C to win a cup. Can't rely on Necas/KK/Staal to make the jump in that spot. Again that is just my opinion you are fully entitled to your own opinion. We will see how things play out this season.

Kotkaniemi's top-six time last year had him scoring at 1.5 PPG. His Points/60 was better than MacKinnon and Matthews. KK will be fine, he's not at ALL what the Canes need to worry about, so you're unaware of what the Canes have. Again, if the Canes want a change, Stastny is a proven 2C. Necas is a natural C, Staal was a 2C on a cup winner, albeit more than a decade ago. They don't need C help, they need goalscoring help. Pacioretty is out until roughly Feburary. Our lineup is dependent on Aho and Svechnikov right now. Someone like Boeser would have been a better fit. Horvat makes no sense in any shape or form.

Because not every team has JT Miller and Elias Pettersson as their 1C and 2C. That is kind of poor logic right there. Are you telling me that Mikhail Sergachev was a 3LD in Tampa when McDonough was around?

Stastny and Staal were both 2Cs a decade ago. I'm not a believer in KK being good enough in that spot for a deep playoff run.

So again, you're entitled to your opinion on the roster. I disagree with it. Doesn't mean I am "unaware of what the canes have" I just disagree with your take on what the canes have. You haven't mentioned a single player that I believe is reliable enough to hold down a 2C spot on a cup team. IMO you can't rely on a 37yr old (Stastny), a 34yr old (Staal), and a 22 yr old that averaged 12 minutes a game last year (KK) to be the answer on a cup run. IMO that is the biggest hole on Carolina's roster.

Now it obviously doesn't have to be Necas for Horvat but IMO Carolina will need to make an upgrade at 2C by the deadline if they want to have a real shot at winning.

So how about instead of being an ass you just accept two people can simply have different view points on a rosters needs?

Also you keep mentioning scoring is a need and Horvat scored 31 last year and was on pace for 37 over a full 82 games so kind of sounds like that helps address goal scoring to me. Boeser has scored at a 29 goal pace over 82 games the past 2 seasons while Horvat has scored at a 33 goal pace over that same time frame.

The guy is just an absolute clown that refuses to reason with people and thinks comparing KK to MacKinnon and Matthews makes even an ounce of sense.

You can tell he worships at the alter of Eric Tulsky with how analytically obsessed he is too. Still doesn't excuse scummy behavior though

Horvat scored 31 and was on pace for 37 goals last year. Staal had 17 last year and was on pace for 18. That isn't "a little more offense". Horvat would have been second on the Canes in goals last year. Sure, lets pretend Horvat won't help your goal scoring shall we?

Jordan Staal a better play driver than Horvat? Dear god...

Except it is. You're saying 2C is the Canes issue. You can think that, but it doesn't make it true. That's not an opinion, it is a belief. Beliefs can be incorrect. This one is. If you think Kotkaniemi is the hole in the Carolina roster, you are absolutely unaware of the Canes system. Oh, and you want to see something really cool?

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&p1=8477500&p2=8480829&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

Kotkaniemi's underlying numbers are FAR better than Horvats. Like, it isn't close. You talk about Horvat being a fit at 2C, but he's a DOWNGRADE From what Kotkaniemi did last year. I'll give you KK's not as good in his xGF, but he's better almost everywhere else.

You also keep mentioning Stastny and Staal's age as a reason they cannot be a reliable 2C. So, why would Carolina then choose a 27 year old that has never proven he can be a 2C on a contender over a 22 year old that has already been a 3C on a cup finalist as a 20 year old? That again makes no sense.

I was picking Boeser because that wasa a down year and I think we all know that. Boeser is capable of 35-40 in a year and goal scorers are always streaky unless they're HoF caliber. Horvat doesn't help. Getting someone to do what Pacioretty does because Pacioretty is out until February would be the much bigger addition.

So instead of being an ass and trying to tell a guy that earns a living by writing about the Canes, you accept that there isn't a base for a trade here, and we all move on with our lives?

All hail the mighty caniac2000's beliefs. He undoubtedly the only correct belief and everyone else is objectively wrong because they are not caniac2000.

Good luck with your 4th line C jumping up to 2nd line C this year and maintaining his MacKinnon and Matthews level production you speak of. Actually if he's that good why don't you put him at 1C?

Replacing patches is dumb because Carolinas struggles aren't going to be in the regular season. I look forward to seeing your Almighty belief on roster construction. You should really be a GM because you know everything and are absolutely 100percent correct and nobody else can have a contrary belief or opinion because that would simply be incorrect as they are not you with all of your infinite wisdom.

Nah, I just know my team better than you do. Shame you can't see that. Top heavy team in the FAR stronger conference? That's not something that typically ends well.

A guy that was a 3C on a cup finalist moving to 2C? I have full faith! Good luck with your pending UFA captain and sending him to a different team that makes no sense! Maybe try Pittsburgh.

Pacioretty's out until Feburary. It's fine if the Canes can stay above the playoff line until then. But that's the issue, if they don't. New York could be better (both teams), Pittsburgh is going to be there, Washington should be there, New Jersey have some serious upside, Columbus got a lot better this summer. There's no certainty they'll have no regular season issues. For a team that was middle of the pack last year in goal scoring to lose Trocheck and Niederreiter, and have their big fix in Pacioretty get hurt, there has to be a lot of worrying. But you know, my knowledge of my own team has to be wrong right? Surely you know better about a team on the other side of the country that you clearly haven't watched because all you are using are base stats about Kotkaniemi to argue your point! Have fun buddy

Nope see that's the difference between us. I'm not ignorant. J can accept that your viewpoint could be correct. I see 2C as a flaw and you don't. That's fine. I'm willing to accept I could be wrong on that and your aging Staal and Stastny or unproven KK might step up enough this season it's just not something I'd personally bank on as a team with cup aspirations. You on the other hand disregard all other viewpoints and accept your own as final and just. That right there is pure ignorance.

Goodluck with your writing career as someone who has an inability to see other viewpoints as an opportunity and would rather negate them as you are clearly more knowledgable than anyone else. I'm sure that personality trait serves you well. Cheers.

I disregard unfounded viewpoints. Your entire argument about KK struggling is that he played 4th line minutes. Your entire argument about Staal and Statsny is their age. That's cool and all, but none of that means they that they're not good options. If you'd have said something like goaltending may be an issue due to injuries, I'd be open to that. I'm disregarding your statements because there is no reason to believe that when you know the setup and you have seen the way the team has embraced Kotkaniemi as the development that had been ignored in Montreal is occuring now. The fact you are unable to provide any substantial evidence for your statement is why it gets ignored.

Enjoy watching Vancouver struggle in a weak pacific division again. Try learning about the teams you're trading with before you force a deal that doesn't work.

this is nuts

Try taking a look at age curves pal. There's your evidence for relying on guys in their mid to late 30s. As for KK take a look at the history of 4th liners (even with strong underlying numbers) jumping up to 2nd line duty. There is often growing pains incurred with that. Both of those are valid concerns backed by statistics but they don't align with your viewpoint so you once again you choose to be ignorant.

Your argument is flawed. You suggest age curves for Staal and Stastny (despite most age curves suggest Staal still has another 2-3 years in him) yet ignore the fact Kotkaniemi is 22. That is why I'm disregarding your opinion. You have nothing to back it up, and your entire argument against Stastny and Staal verifies the Kotkaniemi call. Then you suggest it's only because Kotkaniemi played 4th line minutes, like he isn't 2 years removed from playing 3C on a cup finalist. Your arguments are not backed by statistics because one disproves the other. The age curve argument puts fruit in the KK basket, the 4C argument argues against Staal, who played more frequently than Sebastian Aho did last year anyway. So yes, your statement (because it's not an opinion, it's a statement) is incorrect, and I will disregard it.

https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

^ Staal and Stastny are well into their stastical age curve decline. KK is entering his statically prime yes which bodes well for him. Which is why I have said numerous times (but you seem to have issues with reading comprehension) that I believe the jump from 4th line minutes to 2nd line duty is risky as he is unproven with that amount of responsibility. Yes he played 3rd line minutes on Montreal's cup run but there is a big jump from 3rd line to 2nd line minutes (on average 3minutes per game). Is it possible KK takes that position and runs with it? Absolutely. Is it something I would be comfortable betting on. No.

It is a completely valid argument to have concerns over a player making a jump up the lineup in responsibility and icetime when they have not been at that level in the past.

Also aho averaged almost 3minutes more than Staal in the playoffs last year and 2.5 minutes more in the regular season. So your statement about Staal playing more frequently than aho is factually incorrect.

I never said Staal played more in the playoffs. I said he played more in general. Seems I'm not the one with reading comprehension issues.

Your argument is completely unfounded.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271172145_Estimating_the_effects_of_age_on_NHL_player_performance#:~:text=Our%20best%20estimate%20of%20the,and%2024%20to%2034%2C%20respectively.

Staal is still well within his ability to play at the best level. Even now, the aging curve suggets he'd be fine. So yes, your argument is completely unfounded. You then suggets ice time issues for Kotkaniemi. He was also scoring at 1.5 PPG when he played more than 15 minutes a night. You suggest the heavy load is too much, yet he played top 6 minutes at the beginning of the year and was more than capable. His issue there was he was on the wing. He was 0.5 PPG as a 4C. Because your facination with base stats is strong.

So far, all you've said is that you're not sure the Canes have a genuine 2C. I've asked you to prove it, and you're still yet to do so. Yet, you have the guts to say I have issues with reading comprehension? LMAO, I think you've been called out when you've been chatting out of your backside and have nothing but sh*t to back it up. You say the age curve says Staal and Stastny can't handle it. Okay, fine. It eliminates Stastny, suggests Staal is fine, and still pushes Kotkaniemi's stock up.

Oh, and I've held an ace all this time waiting for you to embed yourself in the TOI argument. Necas. Necas was begging to play center in his exit interview, he's 23, and he's the fastest skater in the NHL. Necas has played top six most of his career. So what's your argument there? He's never played center in the NHL before? Because that's wrong. So, let's see how you try this one. You've been called out on the Kotkaniemi TOI and age curve. You've tried to say Staal is past his prime when other sources suggest he's in the final year of his prime. Now, refute Necas.
https://twitter.com/NHL/status/1542245276961890304?s=20&t=Hfh6R5UlpJTgQO_zmlN3xw

So before you try and come up with more, think about how unlikely it is that all 5 candidates (Drury, Stastny, Necas, Staal, and Kotkaniemi) do not fulfill that role when the Canes were beating teams with the Chicago Wolves forward core last year. I'm eagerly looking forward to this reply because you know you've been called out on not knowing anything about the Hurricanes and overstepping your mark.

You must have slipped over the face I said Aho also averaged 2.5 minutes more per game in the regular season. So again your factually incorrect there and your reading comprehension needs some work.

You are completely out to lunch on aging curves suggesting a 34 year old isn't well into their age related decline. Every single piece of age related data suggests that he is.

Not a single player you mentioned has a proven track record at 2C so yes there is legitimate concern there even though it is entirely possible that one of them is able to take hold of that position.

Anyways I've had enough of this. You have no desire to accept another viewpoint or admit that not having ANYONE aside from aging vets that have played 2C consistently could potentially be a concern.

Good luck with your writing career. I hope for your own sake that you take some reading comprehension courses as that is clearly not your strong suit.

Edit: you might want to check out more recent age curve data that isn't an article published in 2014 based on age curves from 1998 to 2011.