Here is the thing Robertson is good offensively but defensively there isnt enough. Cushman said it best, If Robertson was a full time solid NHL level penalty killer he would be in full time. Leafs rn are playing a solid team defensive game where everyone comes back and helps the D. Robertson unfortunately has not shown enough of that to go hey I can take Kerfoot and Engvall's spot. Having him in over Malgin is fine and he can try and work his way up. Like people go have him over Kerfoot. Kerfoot's the Leafs second penalty killing Center. If he is out you gonna overwork Kampf. Engvall is starting to figure things out and is a good PKer so having him out also doesnt make sense. So until Jarnkrok's play drops Robertson probs gets in via 4th line which really is the third line



And apparently per something mentioned by Dangle it was mentioned Robertson apparently does not want to go to the AHL. Well if thats the case then this is what he gets

I'm not disagreeing that his game needs work. But there was a time this season where TOR needed the depth scoring, why is Robertson in the press box if he is good offensively?

Yeah, he needs to be better defensively, but practicing with your own team will only get you so far. He needs game speed action against multiple teams in different scenarios to develop his skills. At least in my opinion.

The cap is gonna explode. His 5 year deal will be far beyond 12.5

Think 13.8 ish (since thats what they were talking about for the 8 year deal last time around).

And yeah it looks like it will be 5 years, which i am okay with since that works better with age curves

Its not the result, but how the result happened thats important when considering Kyles contract. I think the only ones who want him gone are people who dont understand that. I want him back even if we lose in the 1st again

The thing is though we are getting it here and there. Jarnkrok has started producting along with the occasional 4th line goal. What the leafs need is upgrades over what we currently have not a unknown. While I think Robertson can be a useful guy in the future for the playoffs going up against Tampa I dont see him as a solution to the depth scoring. He might get a goal but I got a feeling he would struggle against Tampa's third line. Leafs are in win now mode not develop guys up the roster mode. Robertson apparently does not want to go to the AHL so this is what hes gonna get. As so far its been k generate offense but not look great defensively and in Keefe's system he is encouraging team defense. Holmberg for instance has looked good at both ends and has sparked something at both ends as if we look at our forwards they all try to chip in and help our D but whenever I saw Robertson he was mostly out of position.

My advice to Robertson is this if he is saying I dont want to go to the AHL dont be silly go down and play as unless he becomes his brother overnight or starts outperforming Kerfoot and Engvall defensively that is what hes gonna get.

As in truth if Leafs want to get depth scoring go trade for someone who you 100% know can make an impact and is an upgrade over Engvall or Kerfoot (i.e. Meier, Garland, Konecney, etc.)

Me

In my opinion, they should be grooming Robertson to be the upgrade you're looking for. All the guys you mentioned in trading for have term and a cap hit that they technically can't spend right now without official confirmation on what is happening with Muzzin. Plus the assets needed to acquire them. Why wouldn't you want to put time into Robertson who is younger and will be cheaper than all three you mentioned for the foreseeable future?

And I don't think Engvall or Kerfoot have really solidified their spots in the lineup this year. Up until a few games ago, Engvall was atrocious, but Keefe kept him in. Why? Why can't he have the same patience with someone younger and cheaper?

He's a good coach, not knocking him. Just don't understand his mindset with Robertson.

Thats not what winning teams do. Leafs are in win now mode now spoon feed this guy into something. Your either ready or not. If Leafs were offense first Defense who cares sure but thats not us anymore. Holmberg for instance good at both ends and has shown Keefe hey I can do what u need. Like listen to the interviews Keefe loves this guy. Robertson is getting games in but is not doing enough defensively to where Keefe is going k Engvall your out. Best thing rn is beating out Malgin and hes done that well so far.

And lets be honest Muzzin's done. That type of injury takes at min 2 years to heal from. Rush him back and u could end that man's career in a wheelchair. They just stalling things out till Feb to go k what can we do with his money. As when listening to Edge man its not a fun injury to go through and he said it took him 2 years before he even felt slightly better.

Leafs have the assets to go get a wing but the question is rn who do they need. Do they want to go rental, guy with term, bottom 6, top 6 those are things GM's have to spend time on now rush and go hey I want this guy.

Engvall and Kerfoot have pretty much solidified their spots with good defensive play via 5 on 5 and PK thats mostly it. Until someone comes in and does it better and score they gonna stick around. Until Robertson learns to PK as good as they do hes not beating them out

In general Robertson has the makings of an NHLer but rn is lacking things Keefe wants in a player his best solution is to ask Dubas to send him to the AHL but apparently he wont.

At some point you have to look at the results though. I know they have been good in the regular season but at some point you have to take a next step and win in the playoffs. Winning in the playoffs is the way we measure success in the NHL. If you can’t take a single step in that regard in 5 years, that’s a problem.

Like I said, I’d be very happy if they just win and keep Kyle around. But at some point you have to look at the results.

I disagree that we havent taken any steps, and regardless saying that the process is good but youre firing him anyway is a textbook "move to make a move"

The grass isnt greener

Firing Dubas accomplishes absolutely nothing. Work with purpose or dont bother

Always enjoyed your takes dude, glad to see you posting on here.

Couldn’t agree more, don’t agree at all with how they have handled Robertson this year.

This was a very important year for his development after two consecutive injuried seasons

Something to watch as we go into December.

I would agree in that we’ve taken steps, it would be foolish to say that this years leafs aren’t better than the 2018-19 leafs. But at the same time, the results have been the exact same for the last 5 years 4 years, minus 2020 when they did even worse.

If you want to keep Dubas, fine. But if they lose again something has to change. I’m sure you heard this, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

And I’ll say it again, obviously the ideal scenario is the leafs win and Dubas stays. But IF they lose, I don’t think you can justify keeping him.

well except that you want him to be rational and if he's unsigned come TDL with his job on the line he may want to go more all in than he should. There's a fine line, and I mean he's been a great GM regardless of whether we've won game 7s yet.

The team has had huge turnover year by year. We very much are not doing the same thing again and again and the results have not been the same. Stop hyperfixating on one thing. Winning a round isnt the goal - winning the cup is. This team is a contender, the first round exits are just a frustrating anomaly

Also in hockey, with how prevalent luck is in small sample sizes doing the "same thing" is far from insanity

I see your point but I’m not overly concern. You can tell 2021 scared Dubas.

I hate to be this guy, but you can’t win the cup without winning a round. Just saying. At some point they have to take the next step. I hope that it’s this year.

https://twitter.com/5Canuckss/status/1597680701398478848

Honestly there is an idea around it. Doing this allows Van to have cap to extend Horvat and lets say Kerfoot rebounds with his hometown team they can then flip him and get a 4th so in the end they get cap space, and 2 picks for Garland. Probs would have to be a 1st and not 2nd but hey 4 years of Garland **** it

Through pondering I think Toronto should look for a top 6 2-way winger who has some bite to his game

Kind of like Bunting but better.

Kypreos really posted an article saying Fabbro would cost Toronto Knies....

Fabbro at most costs a 2nd and a mid B prospect (Hirvonen) not Knies as Nashville be wanting to move him not other teams as they got to many D.

If he was stupid good sure but he really isnt that great. Like I feel he gets carried by his LD partners more than we think. Sure he would be nice but not at that price

Also, the whole rhetoric that Toronto needs to address defense is ridiculous. Our forwards have been super involved defensively and we are doing just fine without Rielly, Brodie, and Muzzin. We've got some VERY solid defensive depth, it's really not an issue. What Toronto desperately needs is secondary scoring that can play with some bite.

If I want a D I want a Muzzin like guy. Benn does that for now but if there was a true RD Muzzin out there is would be interesting to explore

lol you described what Knies projects to be, future is bright. Hopefully he can make an impact later this year

Knies is more hard working than a player with bite to his game. Think Hyman

Bite players are guys like E.Kane, Bertuzzi, Konecney, etc

I’ve wanted another top 6 forward for a very long time but hard not to look at the success of TBL (Goodrow, Coleman, Savard, Paul, Hagel) or COL (Manson, Sturm, Lehkonen, Cogliano) all getting guys for their 3rd and 4th lines and some depth on defensive.

A guy like Meir/Garlard/Konecny/Niederreiter(although I despise using assets on a guy you COULD have had for free) would be awesome, targeting guys for the bottom six IMO is the right play.

Tolvanen, Motte, Barbashev, Athanasiou, Jones(ANA), Hartman(🤞)