Once the vets are dumped between xmas and the TDL is where you'll see this team really drop off.

Monty won't hold this ship, there's only so much Allen can do, and Primeau has demonstrated he's not ready.

Don't get your hopes up, maybe not top 3 pick, with SJ, Van, NJ and CBJ being utter dog ****, but they should still be picking in the top 10

I mean ... I am hoping that they are in the bottom 7 or in the playoffs. So if you are right I am happy.

The truth is though, the Vets are holding this team back, not the other way around. Hoffman, Dadonov (though he amazingly took a hit to make a play last night, which is new), Drouin are not doing much to help this team compete. They have all been pretty Blech. The 4 rookie defenders and Monahan, Dach, Suzuki, Caufield are the real story.

Yeah, that's still not worth a 1st. If anything they'll spend picks / prospects on defense, but Holland doesn't, as a rule, spend 1sts on rentals. I don't believe he ever has, neither has Edmonton as an organization ever spent a 1st on a rental. Also, they don't have $3M in cap space available anyhow. I know you didn't invent the trade, but it's very, very unrealistic.

I both agree and disagree,

The young guys are talented and really impressive.

The vets have been pretty good, Dadonov has been a good playmaker and getting chances.

Drouin set up Caufield from the half boards with a great pass, guy has talent, just not the heart, maybe he grabs some of that from the kids, who knows.

I think the part where I would disagree that they could be better is, if you trade 3 players, who are you calling up from Laval that can play at that level? Ylonen, Beck, Roy?... not sure they are ready yet, Maybe only Ylonen might be, they would be better off dominating in Laval for their growth.

No they don’t. It’s been a couple games. They’ll be bad.

Well at the TDL it would be like 800K not 3M. Plus... The Oilers have not been in a position to win a cup since they traded Gretzky. Rentals only make sense when you are going for it.

Regardless Monahan will net a 1st... I just like the story of Monahan coming back to haunt the Flames. He has a chip on his shoulder...

I have never seen someone gush over a half point per game guy like you have about Monahan. Outside of last season he’s never had under a half point per game. The knock has never been that he doesn’t care or can’t put up points at a 2.5 - 4 million dollar pace, it’s that he hasn’t been healthy enough to warrant a roster spot on a good team which is why good teams pay to ship him to bad teams.

Flames fans are likely rooting for Monahan more that Habs fans, no one wants to see him turn it around more than us, temper yourself though.

- Edmonton is in LTIR so they don't accrue cap space, it would be $3M for them, not $800k.
- I guess you missed it but Edmonton has actually WON THE CUP since trading Gretzky, and have reached the finals on another occasion.
- rentals make sense but trading the 1st for one doesn't. Holland has never done it and has won several Cups. Edmonton has never done it and has won many Cups. You build a dynasty by keeping your high picks - and this is especially true in a cap era.
- Monahan isn't worth a 1st, but especially not to Edmonton.
- Other Habs fans tell me he's playing LW, you say RW, so which is it?
- a good part of Monahan's value is the fact that he's a center, which he doesn't play anymore since the hip surgeries.

Edmonton is absolutely the wrong trade partner here. If you can rehab Monahan to the point he's playing 2C effectively, perhaps Minnesota or Colorado would be interested. There just isn't a strong market for mediocre wingers right now.

Its a question as to whether they will be quite as bad as some of the other teams like Chicago or San Jose, but yeah, they'll be bad

in 3 games we was LW to Dach, last night he was RW to Suzuki.

Pretty sure things change, and lends to a players versatility, which, is usually a value-added feature of a forward.

I think the only reason he has not been playing C, is, Montreal doesn't need to re-establish him at C, they have to evaluate Dach there for the future.

woah, woah. it's been 4 games. I'm still pretty sure Habs will finish bottom 10. Who knows what the lottery ends up doing.
Personally, I can't wait for the Habs to get another 1st rounder for Monahan. People said he was dead weight 3 months ago...haha

Drouin made about 4 or 5 glaring mistakes before that pass so no he is not playing well. He continues to get every opportunity on the pp eventually and with the extra skater at the end, eventually he will put up points but hes a waste of a spot. We have Pezetta who is currently scratched and Pitlick was out of the line up last night, both would be in the lineup following trades. Ylonen is ready to make the jump or fail as we have several other wingers in the pipeline so cant wait on him forever. On a side note Neither Beck nor Roy are in laval because they are too young and our back on their CHL teams so no neither would be called up. Byron will also be healthy at some point so they have plenty of options if /when they move Drouin, Dadonov and by some miracle Hoffman.

I'm excited my man. Monahan is doing a lot more than scoring. He's got a chip on his shoulder after being traded to bring in Kadri. Kadri has been great but it's gonna be interesting if they end the season within 20 points of one another.

find someone who loves you as much as Habs fans love wildly overreacting to a 4 game sample size, apparently. He's got 2 points - I think everyone is happy to see him skating well and playing well again, but let's pump the brakes a little before we flip him out for a 1st rounder.

For some context here's the forwards (and their numbers when they were moved) that were traded around last year's TDL for a 1st: Andrew Copp (13-22-35 in 56 GP), Claude Giroux(18-24-42 in 57 GP), Brandon Hagel(21-16-37, 55 GP). Hagel was valued more for his contract/production ratio (only $1.5M cap hit) and his RFA years, so he's not super applicable here. Giroux has been nearly a PPG scorer for most of his career, and was even clocking in around 0.75 pts/GP in his age-33 season when he was moved. Copp was averaging about 0.7pts/GP when he was moved, and his defensive play at C was a big reason for his increased value as well.

I'm not saying that Monahan can't get to that level over the next 45-50 games, but that's a looooong road to go, and the fact that he no longer plays center is going to hurt his value a bit compared to guys like Copp and Giroux who could still pull it off. It's definitely a nice story to see him playing well again, but I'm still very doubtful that Montreal is going to get paid a 1st to eat the contract and flip him out for a 1st in the same calendar year.

Giroux and Copp both received significantly more than a 1st.

Giroux received Tippet (former 1st rd pick) a 1st and a 3rd for Giroux, two D-level prospects and a 5th.

Copp received 2 conditional 2nds and a 6th, that turned out to be a 1st, a 2nd and a 6th.

So, yes, those players at their respective 0.7-0.75 PPG would yield you returns beyond a 1st, that doesn't apply to Monahan, who is likely going to finish around 45-50 points.

Which can yield you a 1st (arguably, the team trading it would like to win a cup, or get close, so, ideally 26th to 32nd OA), as Montreal traded Lehkonen for a former 1st and a 2nd. and they traded Chiarot for a C-level prospect, a 1st and a 4th.

at TDL teams overpay as it's a sellers market, limited quantity and goes to the highest bidder.

Albeit Monahan has to continue his pace, stay healthy, and make himself desirable in that market.

He was dead weight three months ago.. it's why good teams pay to ship out players to bad teams so the good teams can pay a guy like Kadri, this deal in a 4 game sample size, and I can't emphasize enough, a four game sample size has worked out perfectly for everyone. Montreal has a trade asset, Calgary has a better player for around the same cost, but let's not act like Hughes reinvented the wheel here by taking on a bad contract to flip him at the deadline. Flames fans want to see Monahan be good more than anyone, he will by far get the biggest ovation on returning to the Dome.

You're not wrong - I picked those deals partially because they're the most recent comps, and partially because it's extremely rare for a deal to just be "here's a 1st rounder" "thanks, here's a player" type deals - every trade in the past few years has had multiple moving parts. The last trade I can find that is pick-for-player is the Rangers getting a 1st for Brady Skjei back in February 2020.

But I do think both of those deals show the types of players that contending teams are going to be willing to part with a 1st rounder for - and while you can never discount Kyle Dubas deciding he needs to pay a 1st and two 4ths for the next Nick Foligno, I think it's going to be difficult for a Sean Monahan that only plays on the wing to bring his value all the way back to being worth a 1st rounder. I could easily see him getting flipped for a B-prospect and a 3rd, but not straight up for a 1st rounder.

I don't think he only plays the wing, I just see no incentive for Montreal to put him at C, they're trying to evaluate Dach for the future, so, until he falters, I don't see him getting the chance, plus we're only 4 games in, so, theres plenty of time for Dach to falter, or Dvorak to get an injury or whatever.

I don't think GM's are as worried about that, they most likely look at it and say "he can play C if needed to, he's done it for a decade of NHL hockey, and prior"

I think the big advantage of Monahan, as much as people complain about it, is his contract, Montreal can retain 50%... where would you get a versatile forward, who has size, can put up points and play decent defensively for $3.2M.... that's added value.

Again, he has to continue his pace of play to have that value, we're in a small sample size, he could just fizzle out and be worth a 5th.

I think GMs are going to be very aware of your last point - especially considering how he fell apart as the year went on last season. He was 7-12-19 in his first 37 GP(just over 0.5 pts/GP) before going a brutal 1-3-4 in his last 28. Even if he continues to play well through the first 25-30 games in Montreal, his injury history and recent ineffectiveness is gonna be something that brings down his value.

I think arizona and chicago are definitely worse. San Jose is looking like they’ll be in that range too.

Absolutely no one is paying a 1st for Monahan, especially not the Oilers

Interesting analysis. He was playing Center and winning faceoffs at a ~60% rate, but the Habs needed a winger to play with the top line and he seems to be up to the task.