Canucks fans UNITE!!!

But teams need 7 or 8 Dmen to last the season. No reason to think Bear isn't going to playing lots this season if he NHL capable. A fringe winger is worth a lot less than a fringe Dman. And maybe Bear is better than fringe.

I dont think either of them are fringe NHLers - both should be getting full time mins. Bear probably #4-5 D man and Hoglander as a 3rd line scoring winger

CAR still has 7 healthy D men on its roster even without Bear, and if Gardiner ever comes back they will be back to 8. I heard they are shopping Bear anyway so im sure they have a plan on defense without him

?

How dare you use facts and logic? Vancouver fans will bite your head off!

Just wait and it will make a ton of sense

Requisite Canucks fan here to say they don't like it!! Haha

But seriously, the value is pretty close. The issue that Canucks fans have with it is that the team needs to hold onto its younger players and move some of the vets if possible. Hoglander hasn't come close to hitting his ceiling yet and there've been too many guys the team gave up on only to watch them develop somewhere else (see Forsling and Chatfield as examples).

I think the issue here is that Allvin (and other execs) view Bear as a fringe NHLer at best, while Waddell is convinced that he's an NHLer. The argument can be made that Hoglander is a fringe NHLer too, so it cancels out, but Hoglander is still on an ELC and is waiver exempt. I imagine Waddell would be willing to give a late pick as a sweetener, but Allvin probably wants more. Maybe Carolina should have played Bear in their game against Vancouver.

Looks like good match on team needs (CAR, VAN fans would know much better than I would).

But generally, the market for wingers has been cheap in recent years, while the market for RHD has been somewhere between expensive and outright bananas.

We just ignoring Hoglander being 21 and bear being 25 and the difference in potential between the two? Not to mention the cap savings

Yep also Hoglander is still waiver exempt and Bear is not.

For me, the biggest thing is the fact the Hoglander has a lot of raw skill. Probably the best hands on the Canucks (maybe second to Pettersson), high compete, high percentage of board battles won, plus really good underlying corsi and xG metrics. Last year he had the worst on-ice shooting percentage on the team. I think selling low on him when there are so many signs pointing towards a breakout would be a huge mistake, especially at age 21.

Bear is not worth as much as Hoglander

What would it take for Buffalo to get Bear, Krebs or a pick?

Not for nothing, but you guys were my pick before the season, to come out of the East. With the Burns and Statsny additions, you guys are loaded. I thought you had a shot last year, except for Andersons injury.

It has been reported that the Canes already proposed this and the Canucks weren't interested in moving Hoglander...

I like how Carolina fans are shocked that Vancouver fans don’t like a downgrade.

Value is NOT close at ALL

Hoglander is 21, while Bear is 25. Hoglander hasn't come anywhere close to hitting his ceiling

Not unless they add a 2nd

What I meant to say is that the value is close if you only look at NHL contributions to date. Hogs still has runway to develop though, which makes him more valuable, especially to Canucks fans who don't want to see more young players being discarded.

They are born 3 years apart, so that will be a factor as well for why Vancouver don't want to do a 1 for 1 swap. Bear doesn't seem to have that high of a ceiling anyways but defenders typically reach their ceilings later than forwards.

At this point they will probably just hope he gets waived next month.

Gotta factor upside into valuation to some degree. Are you telling me that Patrik Nemeth has more value than Shane Wright?

Come on now. I was explaining to Canes fans why this isn't a good trade for VAN, despite Hoglander's development SO FAR... so the opposite of your example. It's exactly because of development upside that both the team and fans would pass.

Then make that distinction more obvious, cause I didn't see it